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Author Topic: Corneroids  (Read 108569 times)

Korbac

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Re: Corneroids
« Reply #255 on: November 02, 2012, 10:17:37 pm »

I did a box shaped one, as small as I could get. 4 Medium Hydrogen Engines on the back, a Weak Hydrogen Engine on the Front, and a Medium Hydrogen Engine per side for turning. It works well, except it tends to point upwards slightly when the rear engines are firing. :(

Also, the camera was too fiddly to work - luckily I replaced most of the front of the ship with windows so it wasn't too hard to see. :)

Analysis : Mostly useless in a fight; good straight line speed and acceleration but poor turning and unarmoured (just light aluminium plates.) Redundant cabling and power supplies, but easily disabled with a Heavy Assault Cannon and probably one - shotted with an Anti - Corvette Weapon. On the other hand, almost as cheap as you can get.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 10:21:22 pm by Korbac »
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iceball3

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Re: Corneroids
« Reply #256 on: November 02, 2012, 10:30:54 pm »

I did a box shaped one, as small as I could get. 4 Medium Hydrogen Engines on the back, a Weak Hydrogen Engine on the Front, and a Medium Hydrogen Engine per side for turning. It works well, except it tends to point upwards slightly when the rear engines are firing. :(

Also, the camera was too fiddly to work - luckily I replaced most of the front of the ship with windows so it wasn't too hard to see. :)

Analysis : Mostly useless in a fight; good straight line speed and acceleration but poor turning and unarmoured (just light aluminium plates.) Redundant cabling and power supplies, but easily disabled with a Heavy Assault Cannon and probably one - shotted with an Anti - Corvette Weapon. On the other hand, almost as cheap as you can get.
Would be much more decent if a crew of two people with one manning a turret console perhaps?
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Korbac

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Re: Corneroids
« Reply #257 on: November 02, 2012, 10:52:17 pm »

Oh yes, definitely. I hadn't actually put a turret on it. I was assuming there would be one if it went into battle. :P

Trying out the Standard Assault Cannon... maybe it's glitching or something, but it doesn't actually seem to do that much damage. It blows through the cables and windows (which I suppose is enough to disable the craft and, if lucky, kill the driver) but can't actually pierce the hull without sustained fire. And due to the fact that the ship has redundant cabling, the first point shouldn't be too much of a problem.
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Viken

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Re: Corneroids
« Reply #258 on: November 02, 2012, 11:19:19 pm »

Has anyone been able to email the devs for Cornernoids? I tried reporting a few bugs I found, but got a MAILER DAEMON response instead. 
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Aklyon

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Re: Corneroids
« Reply #259 on: November 02, 2012, 11:21:52 pm »

Feedback email is borked, he's fixing it.
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Girlinhat

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Re: Corneroids
« Reply #260 on: November 02, 2012, 11:36:32 pm »

Weapons in vanilla are broken.  Anti-personnel does the most damage while larger weapons consume more power for less damage.  I assume this is due to health differences not being factored - a player has 100 health but a Thulium-coated Heavy Iron has 40.  Anti-Personnel does 20 while anti-frigate does 15.  Against a player, that's 1/5 health, against a block that's 1/2.  I think in the future, anti-personnel lasers will deal zero damage to blocks and only to players, while larger weapons are still allowed to damage blocks.

So I think if you want to design something that will be more workable in future versions, don't use the anti-personnel in an anti-block role, because it will get nerfed/fixed.  The larger weapons are more likely to remain usable in ship combat.  When that's compared, things look a lot better, actually.  Takes several hits to knock through any amount of hull.

Korbac

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Re: Corneroids
« Reply #261 on: November 02, 2012, 11:47:49 pm »

Oh, right. Cheers for the info Girlinhat. :D

Re the hull issue : I assume you mean this will get fixed? If it takes an Anti - Frigate Cannon multiple shots to chip through my light aluminium armour, then that's a bit crap. Ideally, I'd say anything above Anti Personnel should be able to take out light iron / aluminium in one shot (fighters and the like), with that bigass weapon on the end cutting through many layers of all but the toughest material.

I'm really looking forward to the updates - I can't wait to pilot a big missile into a ship and then get out and murder all the crew with my Thorium minigun! XD

I think I'll try and build a 'proper' ship tomorrow. :)
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jocan2003

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Re: Corneroids
« Reply #262 on: November 02, 2012, 11:52:15 pm »

High speed penetration assault marine delivery shuttle patent pending. LOVE it!!

I already have a few idea on prototype. Now i have to get the game just to test now... DAMMIT!!!
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Korbac

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Re: Corneroids
« Reply #263 on: November 02, 2012, 11:56:34 pm »

You can also do a much smaller e.g. 1x3, 1x4, 2x8, design if you wanted to launch missiles. Just put a camera on and leave the console back at base / ship. :)


In fact, why not have someone else (e.g. the coms officer) steer you into the ship? ULTRA MOVIE COOL SCENES
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Girlinhat

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Re: Corneroids
« Reply #264 on: November 03, 2012, 12:03:14 am »

It is rather lopsided right now.  Anti-Frigate and Heavy Assault do 15 and 14 damage, respectively, which hardly accounts for the massive size and power hog.  However, I find splash damage to be very likely in the future as well, so it may only do +1 damage, but it may deal that damage over 8 tiles or so, and if you can pack two or four of them in one battery then the overlapping splash would rip holes in one shot.  In that case, bigger weapons become rather more valuable.

I also expect to see material health modified.  Light Aluminum has a health of 12, while Light Titanium is like 18, so pound for pound you would be much better with double-layer aluminum to get the same mass for 1.5x health.  Ablative armor may be the technically best.  Because of this, I expect to see Aluminum take health ratings closer to that of electrical components, somewhere under 5, making it useful as a frame material but worthless as armor, pure civilian or internal use.  The heavier materials will likely get a buff as well, as it stands Thulium-Heavy Iron is stronger than Heavy Titanium and comparable strength to Heavy Pomium, and Thulium-Heavy Iron is fairly dirt cheap, with 1x iron and 1x thulium granting at least 3 blocks, probably more that I cannot math right now.  Because of all this, I fully expect weak materials to get weaker and strong materials to get stronger.

So: Splash damage very likely.  Nerf Aluminum, buff Pomium very likely.

When you consider that, your flying aluminum can fighter becomes just that - pretty flimsy.

NINJA: I fully suspect to see camera drones becoming tools for docking, espionage, and newly-bored mine shafts for valuables.  Armed drones would be more difficult to produce, with the energy requirements, but vastly easier than a manned fighter, and cheaper than costing pilot lives.  We may have viable designs for drone carriers in the future.

Korbac

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Re: Corneroids
« Reply #265 on: November 03, 2012, 12:09:16 am »

*Helpful answer and epic ideas*

Oh yeah!!! :D Sounds amazing. The fighter was designed so that it's only defence was it's speed - I expected one or two decent shots with even a poor gun to render it useless.

Also, your idea on drones - now you've said it, it seems so obvious! Make a spaceship as usual, but PUT THE CONSOLES SOMEWHERE ELSE. Voila - armed drone, remotely crewable with the same amount of crew the normal ship would need.

This would be balanced by the fact that an armed drone cannot repair itself, plus the fact that it would be (if it were implemented) pretty easy to board it and cut the power.

EXCEPT IF THERE WERE AP CANNONS IN THE CORRIDORS

I love getting excited! XD
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Gamerlord

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Re: Corneroids
« Reply #266 on: November 03, 2012, 12:26:22 am »

One small issue with the drones: A flying one will only be able to shoot in a straight line unless you have a second player controlling a cannon console block.

Girlinhat

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Re: Corneroids
« Reply #267 on: November 03, 2012, 12:34:21 am »

Ideally a drone would be a very small craft.  Vague estimations based off nothing at all put the size at maybe 5x8?  Not counting engine overflow, because they have thrust squares that cannot be built on but can be passed through.  The barebones speed fighter would likely have no hull at all, just bare components and a lot of thrust.  It would rely entirely on speed and crazy maneuvers to survive, to which I can see two types.

The first would be a swoop fighter, made sleek and agile and able to use its momentum as an aiming tool to line up shots and careen towards an enemy and then skim past them.  This design would require very high energy demands and significant engine power to keep its mobility high enough to evade fire.  The advantage of this design is being able to harass the enemy and confuse the enemy gunner, as well as getting into a good firing position where it can knock out engines or get into a blindspot.  It can additionally move troops very fast, anyone who foot-locks onto it would be able to ride it during a swoop and jump over to the enemy ship and begin boarding.  It could also be mounted with an extra turret for more firepower, but that would get tricky.  The disadvantage is the fragility of exposed components and the low durability of lightweight hull materials, and the expense of mounting good enough engines to keep it alive.  It also requires a skilled pilot.

The second, more likely design would be a sort of armed satellite.  It would mainly have strong maneuvering thrusters in the 4 translation directions, and only need weak rotation and drive engines, along with a strong gun platform.  This design would sit at range and use powerful strafing engines to dodge incoming fire while its spinal mounted main gun could take pot shots at the enemy.  The advantage is having an artillery weapon platform that can mount any large gun and evade fire by keeping itself at a safe range where it can dodge incoming shots but the enemy ship is too slow to dodge.  The disadvantage is that it would have slow turning and low drive.  If it ever got flanked it would be pretty much defenseless.  However, it can mount additional turrets relatively easily for extra pilots to control the guns while the pilot tries to evade fire, and the pilot doesn't need as much skill to strafe and evade as you would for a swooping ship.

Of course for both of these designs you have addons.  Both can use more armor, the armed satellite could use rear turrets to take down intercepting fighters, the fighter could do with more hull and more turrets... but as you make the ship bigger you lose track of the goal.  You're not trying to make an indestructible ship.  You're just trying to make a ship cheaper, so that if your ship and the enemy ship both kill each other, your ship is cheaper to replace.  You might lose two satellites facing an enemy cruiser, but if your satellites cost you a few hydrogen and some guns, and the cruiser was packing antimatter and nuclear reactors, then your cost/kill ratio is way better.

I'm personally extremely curious to see how big ships will evolve though.  If you mount all your guns on one side, you've got the broadside advantage and can shoot down any single ship.  However if the enemy deploys a fighter and flanks your undefended backside, then you're getting hit on your soft spot and that's not going to help.  If you spread your weapons across all your surfaces, then you become more versatile but less powerful.  Add in drone satellites, other unmanned vehicles, boarding attempts, and all other sorts of cost/size complications, and I really have no idea how ships will end up looking.  And this excites me.  It's going to be very fun watching the Bay12 combat rings and seeing how designs play off each other and try to find middle grounds.

Also gonna be fun when we take it to other servers.  Game like this won't go long without tournament play, and you KNOW that Bay12's gonna have to develop an arsenal of tricks and ploys combined with pure firepower to deal with any outside enemies.  The first widescale fights are gonna be epic.

Korbac

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Re: Corneroids
« Reply #268 on: November 03, 2012, 12:49:43 am »

Gamerlord : AFAIK this is a problem with all craft, not just remotely piloted ones. Good spot, though. :)

Girlinhat, both of those 'cheaper' designs look like very good ideas. I'm also curious as to how ships will scale up - tbh I'm not quite sure how you could justify megaships, given that what they gain in firepower and damage resistance they lose in terms of cost / number and the fact that there's more to go wrong. Also, there will need to be more co-ordination between people on these vessels. I think these sort of ships will become more viable if shield generators are released, as these behemoths are then large enough to possess enough power and shield generators to stand up to plinking with fighters. Else, I'd just grab all my wingmen, estimate where the powerplant was (or just go for the engines), and focus fire there.

Speaking of which, fighters tend to be very do or die - hopefully they do alot before they die. With bigger ships, it's a sliding scale of efficiency. Imagine a ship with overall 20 Engines. Now imagine 3 of the x - axis, 5 of the y - axis and 4 of the z - axis engines going to pot. How hard is that going to be to steer?

Solution : Extra command consoles bound to different engines for finer control, but that requires more staff, co-ordination, and of course engines, so it might just be throwing more money away. Equally, if I know DOOMSHIP XL has 20 layers of Unobtainium armour, I might just shoot out it's turrets and allow it to float around pointlessly in space. :P
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Gamerlord

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Re: Corneroids
« Reply #269 on: November 03, 2012, 01:44:19 am »

I'm hoping that a black or active-camo material is available at some point. I have a few ideas regarding massive invisible fighter carriers.

Also, do you think it would be possible to link objects together in the future, e.g. will you be able to move two asteroids together and merge them into one? It may be possible to shield high-value installations by surrounding them with over one hundred thousand tons of rock.
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