@All: Web is dead. That's probably the single worst thing that could have happened for me over the night. He was the only person that was really giving me a chance: Sox was already convinced I'm scum, Jim has a hard-on for newb butthole, and Vodot and Nerjin would probably flip in the next round. Well let me just say that if I were scum, I can guaran-fuckin'-tee you I would not have killed Web. I already knew I didn't have a big pull on most of you, and I sure as hell wouldn't bank on being able to talk my way out of it if I was scum. In all honesty, I'd probably have gone for Jim or Sox if they were town simply because I was already up for the chopping block--it wouldn't have changed the way things ended for me personally, but at least I'd get a good spitekill in there. It simply doesn't make sense, and I'm hoping that this mistake on part of the Scumteam is one that some of you will pick up on. Make damn sure I'm the guy you want to lynch, because this is pretty much the worst case scenario for us as a town.
@Sox: I answered your questions pretty well, which I think Web also said. I don't know what I can say to you to sway you one way or the other, but just like always, I'm always willing to answer questions. I'm not sure whether what you're doing is just trying to appear convicted, or try to lynch town so you can win. It's a hard call for me to make, especially knowing that you have played Mafia before.
@Vodot:
1. In post 65, Kamin voluntarily answers my opened-ended question from the scum perspective, saying"if I was mafia, I would do" such and such, and "if I wasn't mafia, ..." I think this is a blatant slip, and I am surprised I missed it in previous reads. My question was directly referencing the current game and in no way biased him towards a scum or town answer; but he answered it first from a scum perspective. I see no reason for him to do this unless he had been spending considerable time considering the current game from he scum perspective. A town player would answer as town to such an open-ended question.
I don't honestly see how me answering first from a scum perspective could at all be used as evidence as a scum slip-up. I believe you were playing the hardass at the time, and I didn't think there was anything wrong with trying to be thorough in order to answer your question satisfactorily. This is probably the most tenuous of the links you're trying to make in your case against me.
2. Later in the same post and often throughout the thread, Kamin becomes agitated and obsessed over proving that what he is doing is not scummy, rather than directly confronting logic he disagrees with or simply admitting when he is wrong. This strikes me as convoluted play for town. Instead of trying to "de-scummify" your image, why would you not instead spend more time asserting your townie-ness and telling town by using evidence and refuting bad reason? But Kamin doesn't tell town, get frustrated, or attack logic; he just denies responsibility and compares himself to other scummy players, saying "look! I'm not half as scummy as they are!" Posts where he does this: 65, 73, 168,
I don't really know how this is something you wanted me to "respond to." You yourself say it's "convoluted play for town;" does that mean town couldn't do it? Especially in a beginner's mafia? Moreover, it seems to kind of contradict your first point in that I seemed super scummy for the order in which I answer a question, but then I'm playing "too convoluted for town." So how, pray tell, am I supposed to play? You're not leaving much room here.
3. In post 129, Kamin begins what is going to be a thread-long attack against me for two of my behaviors:
- Being a hardass and strongly pressuring every other player
- My special suspicion and distrust of the ICs
He never offers a lot of substance to show how either of these two charges are scummy, and eventually he is just going to repeat them no mater how often I explain these behaviors to him and to others that found these behaviors uncomfortable. Even when I directly demand that he deliver evidence, he trots out a repeated line about how there is no evidence in Mafia, and how things are based on feelings, which is just wrong; and it should be especially easy for him to find something in my case given my large amount of exposure here.
I think "special suspicion" of the ICs is pretty scummy. I can understand it to some extent, but you seemed to really like running with it. "Special suspicion"... That term right there is pretty scummy, no? This "special suspicion" implies that you are worried about them for some reason, which can in turn be used to imply that you know that they are town or not. And, funny enough, the first NK was Shakerag. I think that's kind of suspicious in and of itself. "Being a hardass and strongly suspecting other players" also seems a bit scummy in that you're attacking absolutely everybody so as to seem "more town" (impartial?). It seems like a classic case of misdirection, and that seems scummy to me.
4. Finally, Kamin has displayed a lack of willingness to actually engage the town with real information and play. In post 131, I pressure him to explain why he second-voted mark. All i wanted was for him to admit that he indeed cast a second vote on Mark; Kamin never answers. In post 151, Kamin says he 'likes my answers'; but He says it still just really seems like I do want to lynch the ICs, telling me it seems I'm on a "witch hunt" (....yes?) and that I "look guiltier" than Mark. I demand evidence. No Evidence. In 172, Kamin nonchalantly asks about an extension when he knows the town is facing no-lynch; and in post 190, Kamin spends more time writing flavor text than he does actually going after me with real evidence or responding to my self-defense, lamely misdirecting the town to an "evidence" thread completely devoid of any.
I answered every question directed to me throughout the game, and asked questions of my own. As seen in your first point, apparently answering questions in as complete a manner as possible, as well as the order of the perspective used, is "scummy" in your book. I don't agree and feel that this point is also pretty contradictory. It seems like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't in your condensed points, and it currently just seems predatory. Oh, and I did say why I voted Mark; I said he was saying some of the scummiest things in the game. Asking me if I did or did not vote for Mark after somebody else is a stupid and leading question--all you need to do is refer to the posts. This was aggressive of you too, and looking back at it, was also scummy of you. As far as flavor was concerned, I like flavor. I was also doing what I could to read back on the game and try and figure out who's scum and who's not. Again, not that scummy. You can look at it as a post to even just remind people I was around, as that's pretty much what it was. If you take issue with that, it's your prerogative. I just hope that if you're town, you realize you're barking up the wrong tree.
Author
Topic: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory! (Read 86175 times)