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[LoSboccacc]

Not sure if trolling or sarcasm...

[ank]

Not sure if trolling or sarcasm...

Neither.
I am being perfectly serious.

Just a list of stuff that works exactly the same in Gnomoria and DF:

Stockpiles
Mining and digging
Hauling(you even have to clear mined areas like in DF)
Workshops
Military
Farming is a tiny bit different
Furniture
Dining room/Great hall
Personal rooms/dormitory

[BurnedToast]

Just a list of stuff that works exactly the same in dwarf fortress and age of empires:

You have to harvest resources
you need to build structures.
farming works a tiny bit different
You need to build a military
the enemy sends soldiers to attack you
top down view
need to build places for peasants to live
barracks

This leads me to suspect the purpose of DF is to make age of empires without graphics, since it's a total clone.

[Shadowgandor]

Just a list of stuff that works exactly the same in dwarf fortress and age of empires:

You have to harvest resources
you need to build structures.
farming works a tiny bit different
You need to build a military
the enemy sends soldiers to attack you
top down view
need to build places for peasants to live
barracks

This leads me to suspect the purpose of DF is to make age of empires without graphics, since it's a total clone.

I know you try to make a point but you horribly failed at making that point. Ank is correct when he says that the stuff he listed works the same in Gnomoria and DF and the feel is also quite the same. The stuff you compared with Age of Empires is completely different. ''Farming works a bit different'' - Farming in AoE is nothing more then a X p/s income of a resource called ''food''. They could've named it magic essence and it'd still be the same (who ''builds'' humans using food anyway ) while in DF (and Gnomoria), food is something that's consumed.

I could tear all of your comparisons apart BurnedToast but I don't think there's a need for it as you yourself probably know it's complete bullshit. I don't blame Gnomoria for what they are trying, I think it's awesome what they're doing but zealously defending Gnomoria against someone says that Gnomoria might be trying to create a DF clone with graphics isn't right. The two games are quite the same but that's not a bad thing. I atleast will give it a try because I dislike struggling with the UI in DF but love the genre.

[Vattic]

Just a list of stuff that works exactly the same in Gnomoria and DF:

-snip-

The guy making it has admitted to taking inspiration from DF in the FAQ on the games website. Even if someone who hadn't played DF made a similar game I'd expect a lot of what you list to be similar. They are often the most logical way to handle things. Toady never played Dungeon Keeper but was surprised at how similar some things were (designating for digging mainly).

One difference is invention. When it comes to machinery your gnomes have to invent thing before you build them. It's been a while since I kept up with the latest news but I understand this side of the game will be expanded greatly.

[ank]

Let me correct myself when I said farms work the same:
They do, but the fact that you can't farm in the winter is a huge gameplay change... and a FUN one I think.
Making you stockpile food and hope it's enough for the winter is a great idea.
This leads to more great decisions when you are out of food, and might need to choose which gnomes get to eat.

I hope this game becomes more than "DF clone with graphics", but right now, that's what it is.
Mind you, I actually bought it.

[thvaz]

I'm usually against people calling other games DF clones, but this one deserves all the flak. It is using a Zynga style of development.

[Infuriated]

I don't understand what the drama is all about. I wonder if people went crazy like this when people started drawing inspiration from Rogue? If they hadn't we wouldn't have the entire genre of Roguelikes. Does no one else want to see the DF-like genre bloom into a great mountain home and start slaughtering all the inferior elven genres into extinction?

Surprisingly, when someone wants to put their own spin on a game they love, they usually build up very similar mechanics (or else it would be nothing like the game they love) to have a stable base to get the ball rolling.

BUT WHAT ABOUT TOADY!? Give him a little more credit than this, DF will always be protected by its niche-bubble, extreme depth and ASCII still deter most people and draw in the right maniacs people, ahem, and the only thing spin offs will do is draw peoples attention to the source of the madness fun - Dwarf Fortress.

If you just don't like the game or what the Developers doing, just ignore it? I don't think its very existence is going to harm anyone.

[Andir]

BUT WHAT ABOUT TOADY!? Give him a little more credit than this, DF will always be protected by its niche-bubble, extreme depth and ASCII still deter most people and draw in the right maniacs people, ahem, and the only thing spin offs will do is draw peoples attention to the source of the madness fun - Dwarf Fortress.

If you just don't like the game or what the Developers doing, just ignore it? I don't think its very existence is going to harm anyone.

I think people get hung up on Intellectual Property in today's age and I believe that's where this whole argument comes to play.  Instead of looking at the program as a service that Toady is providing, they are looking at it like an idea that he's providing.  As a professional programmer, I see this day in and day out.  People think their ideas are their own property (when, in fact, I would argue that maybe 1% of 1% of all ideas are original or new) instead of taking an idea and expanding upon it or making it better.  I don't know how many times a great idea has been stomped into the ground because someone else thought of it first and people were afraid to expand upon it.  Instead of making the software we all use day in and day out better... we are afraid that someone else might have done it first and are scared of the lashback for going down that road.

I think if you are the type of person that thinks Toady is providing his own perspective on the genre (or in this case, a conglomerate of genres) then you don't see issue with Gnomoria and the like.  If you view "God game city builders" as property of Toady/ThreeToe then you will obviously attack anything that tries to put it's foot in that water.

[thvaz]

Toady already spawned dozen of games inpired by DF, and none of them is so blatant a copy like gnomoria. Each has his own thing, but gnomoria is just DF (without the years of development DF has) with a graphical style pretty much ripped off from Stonesense.

[LoSboccacc]

So we should be forced to play sensible soccer for the rest of our life, because they got the idea of managing a squad across a championship?

I know fifa 2013 is hurting the sensibilty of the sensible soccer aficionados but the world goes on. A niche of the niche of dwarf fortress called for a better graphical management. The world (a slight part of it, I'd say) moved forward.

Aficionados are not forced to get on the graphical bandwagon, an I will remain a faithful player and supporter as well, but there is too much fuss about this.

Spoiler: true story (click to show/hide)

In Miner VGA you can find many things in the ground. In Mutant Miner, we added green radioactive goop. You could take it back to one of the buildings at the top, and apply it to yourself to grow extra arms and other mutations that would help you combat threats down below. Which were just, like, these holes that would spit out enemies or blocks of slime that you'd encounter in the mountain.
I eventually wanted to put in extra miners though, and since it was turn-based, it started to drag like a battle in an SSI Gold Box game. And instead of rewriting the game, I thought, well maybe it should be dwarves instead. And it should be real-time, to combat the SSI problem. Now, you'd be digging out minerals in a mountain, combating threats inside, and making little workshops.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

And how will you feel when the developer takes the money and runs with what he's suckered you out of already? Poor steam greenlight too, supporting endeavors like this will only ruin their future credibility. Moneygrabs are not how we should be expanding the genre, sorry. Same way PES is an awful junk soccer game; Gnomoria is a junk 'strategy'/management game.

If you can tell me with a straight face that most everything in Gnomoria isn't directly ripped from DF's take on the genre, you're blind. The rabid defence of this moneygrab on Toady's forum is what I find most ridiculous. This man is charging people for an unfinished and unplayable alpha that he's worked on for very little time, while Toady has worked off of donations for years. Seems a bit insulting to defend one person trying their damnedest to siphon money from someone else's ideas.

[TripJack]

making money off other people's ideas is the capitalist way bros

[Andir]

making money off other people's ideas is the capitalist way bros

Apparently not anymore... since many people are trying to argue that ideas are patentable/ownable.

Oh hey, I thought of something... I should own that concept.

[hemmingjay]

"Crank" is a pejorative term used for a person who holds an unshakable belief that most of his or her contemporaries consider to be false.[1] A crank belief is so wildly at variance with those commonly held as to be ludicrous. Cranks characteristically dismiss all evidence or arguments which contradict their own unconventional beliefs, making rational debate a futile task; this is the essential defining characteristic of the crank: being impervious to facts, evidence, and rational inference.


This debate is futile.