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Author Topic: Chen Guangcheng  (Read 7503 times)

Mr. Palau

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Re: Chen Guangcheng
« Reply #45 on: May 05, 2012, 08:16:15 am »

Pretty sure  RedKing isn't Chinese either.
Well either that or a very astute foreigner who went through the trouble of learning mandarin. Not many foreigners learn mandarin, and even fewer would learn mandarin and be so knowledgeable on china.
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Lord Dullard

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Re: Chen Guangcheng
« Reply #46 on: May 05, 2012, 08:49:07 am »

Pretty sure  RedKing isn't Chinese either.
Well either that or a very astute foreigner who went through the trouble of learning mandarin. Not many foreigners learn mandarin, and even fewer would learn mandarin and be so knowledgeable on china.

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I know that sounds completely insane, but that's how it is (and I should note that decentralization of power and the struggles of the center against the provinces, in both China and India, was the subject of my master's thesis...I'm not just talking out my ass here).
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Wayward Device

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Re: Chen Guangcheng
« Reply #47 on: May 05, 2012, 09:10:22 am »

Seeing as the learned Redking is telling all about goings on in China in this thread (and in a wonderful, informative and interesting yet academic style) I'd like to ask a question. As someone who has recently qualified as an English teacher and could now get a job in China like that (its currently the biggest growth market for English teaching positions, three people from my class of 15 are already going) what would it be like? I hear all this stuff somewhere along the scale of "everyone will love you" to "China is the most racist place to white people ever" and would like some more reasoned, informed information (if its not to much trouble). 
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or maybe Valve goes out of business because they invested too heavily in something which then fails - like, say, human civilization.
Alternatively, initiate strife to refuse additional baked goods, and then abscond.

Lord Dullard

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Re: Chen Guangcheng
« Reply #48 on: May 05, 2012, 10:43:44 am »

Seeing as the learned Redking is telling all about goings on in China in this thread (and in a wonderful, informative and interesting yet academic style) I'd like to ask a question. As someone who has recently qualified as an English teacher and could now get a job in China like that (its currently the biggest growth market for English teaching positions, three people from my class of 15 are already going) what would it be like? I hear all this stuff somewhere along the scale of "everyone will love you" to "China is the most racist place to white people ever" and would like some more reasoned, informed information (if its not to much trouble).

WD, here is the info I've received on doing this, since it's something I've considered doing myself (and may still do in the future):

First of all, you really don't need to learn any Chinese, which will make things easier for you. In fact, from what I've heard, many of the companies that hire English teachers from overseas actually prefer non-Chinese speakers, because it essentially forces the students to use English in the classroom, and prevents the teacher from making explanation in Mandarin/Cantonese which could cause an opportunity to learn more English to be missed. The vast majority of people will be very friendly and helpful, and since most Chinese know English, initial disorientation probably won't be as much of an issue as you might fear. Your life will probably be relegated to a small area in/around the place school where you would be teaching, and living quarters provided in these situations are *usually* acceptable and reasonably safe, if sparse. 'Sparse' is generally not a problem for those who want to undertake something like this, though, since usually the goal is to save money. Saving money is usually very easy in such a position: between the lowered relative costs of goods/services and the fact that your living arrangements are provided for you, most people can manage to put a good chunk of change away. My girlfriend's parents, who are both Taiwanese, have been encouraging me to go do this for a couple of years for precisely that reason.  :D I cannot claim to be a great authority on the matter, though, since I haven't actually done it yet, so take everything I say as second-hand information. RedKing may be more well-versed in this matter than I.
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darkflagrance

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Re: Chen Guangcheng
« Reply #49 on: May 05, 2012, 08:18:29 pm »

I've heard from friends who did an English teaching program in China that for teaching English, being white is also considered an advantage, because you fit the expectations that Chinese people often have of foreign language teachers.
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RedKing

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Re: Chen Guangcheng
« Reply #50 on: May 07, 2012, 11:48:42 am »

all this stuff somewhere along the scale of "everyone will love you"
Mostly true. Much of China is an incredibly friendly place. Perhaps less so in the largest cities, although even there it varies. Beijing is much like New York -- people are friendly, but blunt. Not a lot of eye contact. Foreigners don't elict that much response, because there's so many tourists and expats. Shanghai is more like Los Angeles -- lot of glitz and wealth juxtaposed with gritty urban jungle poverty. People tend to be friendly and more circumspect in their choice of words, but it can often come off as a bit fake. Guangzhou....I don't really know of a good analog. Vegas, maybe? Can be incredibly tacky and over-the-top, but also a hell of a lot of fun. It's also freakin' massive and clogged with industry.

In smaller towns, where foreigners (read: anyone who doesn't look East Asian) are going to be much rarer, you'd be an instant celebrity, which leads to...

Quote
to "China is the most racist place to white people ever"
Also true, but not always in a bad way. It has to do with limited information and scale. Let me put it this way. There are 55 official "ethnic minorities" in China, making up about 105 million people. That is still less than 9% of the population. And many of those minorities don't look markedly different from the Han ethnic phenotype. And the largest minorities are concentrated in their own provinces and districts. This means that outside of the major cities or the minority regions, it's quite possible for your average Chinese citizen to go their whole life without ever meeting anyone who isn't Han Chinese. It's a level of ethnic homogeneity that we can't even fathom in the West, especially in a multiethnic stew like the US.

All they know of white people, black people, Hispanics, Native Americans, Arabs, Indians, etc. is what they see on TV or have read in books. You're only slightly more real to them than a fucking unicorn. So when a living, breathing laowai (foreigner, lit. "honored/old outsider") shows up in the village, there's going to be more than a few misconceptions. Doubly so if you have any physical traits that are really outside their norm, like blonde/red hair, blue eyes, freckles, etc. Expect stares. In a really rural area, they may even poke you or touch your hair just to confirm that you're real. In my travels, everyone seemed to assume that:

A. I was German or Russian, because I had a thick beard. All Germans and Russians have beards. Americans don't. I sat back and laughed my ass off on the Great Wall while two guards debated back and forth as to whether I was German or Russian. Didn't help them that I speak a bit of both. Their "logic" would have been incredibly offensive anywhere else, such things as "He's German! Look, his face looks like he's had a good night sleep. You know Russians always look tired!" "No, no, no...he has a dark beard! The Germans don't believe in breeding with other races."  ???

B. I was American because my jeans had pockets in the front. Europeans wear jeans with pockets in the back.

C. I was asked what kind of gun I have at home. Because all Americans own guns. Also, how many people I knew that had been killed in gunfights. Because we have them every day. (To be fair, there are lethal shootings ever day in the US, but hey....we're a big country too.)

D. I was told how much they love Houston and want to visit there some day, and had I met Yao Ming? (The proper response was, "Dude...Houston is a cesspit, pray he gets traded. And no, we have 300 million people. I haven't had the chance to meet him.")

E. You may pick up a fond nickname like "Lao Bai" (literally, "Old White"; also, a bit of a pun on laowai) or "Mei Hu" (literally, "Beautiful Beard"; here, mei is a shorthand for Meiguo, "beautiful country", which is the Chinese rendering of 'America'. So the intended meaning was "American Beard".) I knew an African-American expat in Beijing whose boss called her "Hei nǚ", which literally means "black woman".

So yeah, there's a lot of unintended (and often comical) racism, but rarely does it have the sort of malicious intent that we associate with racism in the West. It's mostly from just a sheer lack of exposure and misguided enthusiasm to greet this strange visitor from Beyond the Middle Kingdom (which in pre-modern Chinese thought, meant you were literally from beyond the edge of the world, and so must be a ghost, a demon or a barbarian). Old habits die hard.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 01:27:10 pm by RedKing »
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nenjin

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Re: Chen Guangcheng
« Reply #51 on: May 07, 2012, 12:04:56 pm »

That's some of the most adorable racism I've ever heard.
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RedKing

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Re: Chen Guangcheng
« Reply #52 on: May 07, 2012, 02:30:27 pm »

It's also a thing in East Asia that many people don't get what the big deal was about the Nazis, swastikas, etc. There's been a recurrent thing in China, Singapore, India, and elsewhere of Hitler-themed restaurants, bars, etc.

Maybe part of it is that you don't really understand racism when your ethnic group is 91% of the country, and 99.99999% of your daily life.

Even the "Ethnic Culture Park" they have is on the one hand, incredibly racist. In fact, before the Beijing authorities raced around cleaning up the Chinglish on public signs ahead of the 2008 Olympics, the official sign said "Racist Park". xD

But on the other hand, at least they're making an effort to recognize and preserve their indigenous minorities. They've always been exempt from the one-child policy because otherwise demographics would obliterate most of them within a couple of generations. There are ulterior motives, of course.. IMHO, China is actually pretty good in its treatment and protections of ethnic minorities -- with one very big qualification: that they are perceived as a "loyal" minority. The Tibetans and the Uighurs get the shit end of the stick because they have (or are at least perceived to have) nationalist aspirations. Despite Uighur claims that it's religious persecution, it's not -- the Hui are Muslims as well, and are highly regarded because their history is one of providing loyal generals and scholars to the Empire.

To get this thread back on the rails, it looks more and more likely that Chen will get to "study" in the US, but the fate of his extended family left behind (nephews, cousins, etc.) may not be so good, especially those in Linyi district, where it sounds like the Party really needs to send in some Beijing-cadre PSB agents to purge the place. That shit be off the hook.
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Lord Dullard

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Re: Chen Guangcheng
« Reply #53 on: May 07, 2012, 02:34:15 pm »

Even the "Ethnic Culture Park" they have is on the one hand, incredibly racist. In fact, before the Beijing authorities raced around cleaning up the Chinglish on public signs ahead of the 2008 Olympics, the official sign said "Racist Park". xD

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*blink*

Are those supposed to be Native Americans?  ???

Hehe.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Chen Guangcheng
« Reply #54 on: May 07, 2012, 02:36:49 pm »

They look like Polynesians to me. Or at least some subset thereof.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 02:41:34 pm by GlyphGryph »
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nenjin

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Re: Chen Guangcheng
« Reply #55 on: May 07, 2012, 02:39:39 pm »

Or basically any ethnicity that isn't Native Americans.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
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How will I cheese now assholes?
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Chen Guangcheng
« Reply #56 on: May 07, 2012, 02:41:08 pm »

ah, I see - it seems to be explicitly Chinese Cultures.

So no, obviously not supposed to be Native American
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Lord Dullard

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Re: Chen Guangcheng
« Reply #57 on: May 07, 2012, 02:58:03 pm »

Ah, I see. Chinese ethnic groups only.

However, both the cow skull and the patterns on the wall behind the dancers (or whatever they are) were more suggestive of Native Americans than anything I would possibly associate with China.
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RedKing

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Re: Chen Guangcheng
« Reply #58 on: May 07, 2012, 02:59:01 pm »

Yeah, I guess I should have been clearer: that park is just ethnic minorities in China. That particular group are the Va/Wa people of far southwestern Yunnan province, up against the Burmese border. The Wa over the border in Burma are one of the ethnic groups which has been fighting a seperatist war against the Myanmar government.

Again, it kind of says something about the cultural homogeneity (and scale) of China that they have a theme park for all their national minority cultures, which are almost as exotic to them as white devils from across the sea are. It'd be like having a theme park in London with a mockup of a Scottish pub, and a tour guide saying "And here we have a Glaswegian in his native habitat..."  :P
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Lord Dullard

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Re: Chen Guangcheng
« Reply #59 on: May 07, 2012, 02:59:53 pm »

Yeah, I guess I should have been clearer: that park is just ethnic minorities in China. That particular group are the Va/Wa people of far southwestern Yunnan province, up against the Burmese border. The Wa over the border in Burma are one of the ethnic groups which has been fighting a seperatist war against the Myanmar government.

Again, it kind of says something about the cultural homogeneity (and scale) of China that they have a theme park for all their national minority cultures, which are almost as exotic to them as white devils from across the sea are. It'd be like having a theme park in London with a mockup of a Scottish pub, and a tour guide saying "And here we have a Glaswegian in his native habitat..."  :P

That actually sounds like an awesome idea.
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