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[obolisk0430]

Well, that was fast.  Okay:
My vote on Hapah still stands, because he's a scummy son of a bitch.  I still say his reasons for voting borno are bullshit.  Beyond that, he was perfectly alright with letting Day 1 end with a no lynch.
In addition to this, Urist looks pretty goddamn suspicious to me.  I think your attack on Borno was also bullshit.  OMGUSing is a scum tell, but in this case, I think it's a null tell, because EVERYONE ATTACKING HIM HAD BULLSHIT REASONS.  Including you.
I would also like to clarify something in this post.  I make a clear distinction between a shitty reason and a bullshit reason.  A vote with a shitty reason actually has some basis, however small.  A bullshit vote has NO REAL BASIS.  You are not making votes with shitty reasons, you are making BULLSHIT votes.  That's why I think you're scum.

[Jiokuy]

I have reread the posts from D1 looking for clues. From this I have gained a modicum of certainty that Hapah is indeed scum.

From his induction Flying Dice pressured Hapah heavily.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hapah, I only found it to be mildly suspicious when you answered Urist as if you were scum in this game, rather than hypothetically. That could very well be a newbtell, though, so I was going to put it aside if nothing else caught my eye.

However.

And nobody asked, but I don't really like the RVS in general. You do have to get the conversation moving, sure, but I wish people were a little tighter with their votes.

Why don't you like RVS votes? Are you uncomfortable with people putting pressure on you that early in the game? I understand that it could be tricky to hide your scumminess with little prior experience, so I can see how you wouldn't like having to deal with that sort of attention. RVS is one of the better ways for D1 town to start digging up enough reason for a focused scumhunt.

Furthermore, you went after borno for an insignificant change to his question for you, one which clarified it. That suggests to me that you're looking for an excuse to start a bandwagon without any real reason. Care to explain why town would want to bandwagon someone not because of evidence or even a gut feeling, but because they were trying to make things less complex? Complexity and confusion are tools of the informed minority, after all.

What really got my attention was your response back in your first active post.

Hapah:  It's N1, and you're a scum roleblocker.  No one claimed a role during D1.  How do you pick your target?

Look for the nervous one. You know the type: Posts 4 times in 30 minutes after getting one hard question and a RVS vote. New players get weighted a little easier (they're twitchy all the time), but I'd guess anyone that jumps when you say "Boo" probably does so for a reason.

So someone who responds once, with a brief post, is preferable to someone who posts multiple responses in a short period of time? More posts are always better because they let us get a better read on people, even if we're relatively new and don't have metaknowledge of playstyles. The more someone posts, the higher the chance that they'll drop a scumtell. I'll agree that people who freak out because they're targeted would be something to notice in a veteran game, but in BM it is basically a nulltell because people aren't used to being pressured like this. Quite apart from that, someone who is posting a lot, even if only in their own defense, is at least helping to keep the game active, which is always good for town.

@Hapah: It's D2. You are scum. There is a player aggressively attacking other players, and there is a lurker who has only posted twice in the actual game. Who do you kill?

Neither. They can both be useful, in their own way. The player aggressively attacking anything that moves muddies the waters, and as far as I'm concerned he's doing the Scum a favor. A lurker isn't hunting scum, and it's REAL hard to find them if not you're looking. As an added bonus, he'll look a little scummy because he's lurking: He might not be a hard lynch later in the game. If I had to choose one, though, I guess I'd NK the lurker.

So someone who is aggressively scumhunting and pressuring people is bad for town? You've implied and stating this several times now. One time I would probably file as a newbtell. Maybe twice. But three times, you've said that aggressive scumhunting is bad. That reeks of newscum trying to get town to be more passive to me. You also implied that it is preferential for scum to NK lurkers. Scum who NK lurkers are generally scum who are scared; this suggests that you're trying to subtly convey the notion that lurkers are therefore probably town. What this says to me is that you're trying to talk people into going after aggressive scumhunters (who help town and hurt scum) rather than pressuring lurkers into activity, which can only help town.

You reek of scum to me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Unvote.

I'm wondering how exactly I "framed your words"? I quoted your responses to those questions in their entirety. Sounds to me like you're trying to back out of what you said.

Yes, you were talking in hypotheticals, but you were still suggesting that being active is bad for town. I'd argue that even a Toony Tunnel is better for town than townies that aren't putting pressure on people. Yes, we don't have a lot to go on at the moment, so we're mostly pushing people to see where cracks appear. That's what D1 is about; it isn't going to be clean, and there is going to be a lot of arbitrary voting, but that's what good town does on D1. Even if we end up with a mislynch, that is still better than not doing any investigating, because if we're passive in D1, then we don't have much to work with on D2, which essentially means that the scum get a free NK. Once we have evidence and patterns to work with, we'll be more directed in scumhunting. But for now, any effort at convincing people to stop applying pressure looks like antitown behavior to me.

I was going to switch my vote to Jiokuy at this point in an attempt to pressure him into not giving up so easily, but then I noticed your response to one of Shakerag's questions.

[So everyone's content to end the day on a tie then?]

If nothing else, it should be educational.  I'm fine with it for that reason: experience is a very good teacher.

There's still a few hours, though: Someone might change their mind.

Sounds like you don't care too much who gets lynched, or even if there is a no-lynch. SCUM SCUM SCUM.

Hapah


Jiokuy. Get in here and start contributing. Even if you're mislynched, you might turn up something we can use to catch scum. If you let yourself be killed, you are hurting town. For now, I am assuming that you are either scum or a townie so apathetic that a mislynch of you is better than a possible mislynch of an active townie. Prove me wrong.

This has already been mentioned before, but you voted borno for a very scummy reason. Town doesn't want to make things balanced, town wants to catch scum. Don't throw your vote on someone because you want to balance things, throw your vote on someone because you want to pressure them, because they look like scum.

Here is my question for you:

If you were scum, what sort of behavior would you want to see from a townie taking pressure from other townies?

Furthermore, you went after borno for an insignificant change to his question for you, one which clarified it. That suggests to me that you're looking for an excuse to start a bandwagon without any real reason. Care to explain why town would want to bandwagon someone not because of evidence or even a gut feeling, but because they were trying to make things less complex? Complexity and confusion are tools of the informed minority, after all.

Welcome to Day 1. Nobody knows anything, so the smaller things count for more. And starting a bandwagon isn't a scumtell.

Thanks, and thanks for the reminder. Since I haven't even been here for most of D1, I'm mostly throwing accusations to see what sort of cracks show up.

Now Hapah was able to direct Dice’s suspicions to Borno thanks to his slip up, but it is my suspicion that Hapah knew Borno would flip town, and that he feared that on D2 Dice would direct his active scumhunting at him

Also I have aome suspicions of supercharzard in how he indirectly defended Hapah earlier on.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Okay, so I'm here.

Borno[/b]:

What the hell is this? First you say that you are voting me 'Because of a small scumtell', but then you say that it is a 'Halfass Attempt at scumhunting'? A 'Halfassed attempt at scumhunting' is much worse than a 'Small Scumtell'! And now, now that I have answered all your questions, fixed my error (My answer would change if it was N1 instead), even found a 'Big Scumtell', yet you still hang onto my vote? And Jiokuy making a lousily hidden bandwagon vote against me starts to make me think that you and Jiokuy could be a scumteam.

Unvote, Vote Hapah.

So, you seem to be getting defensive. Angry. If I'm understanding all this correctly, you're voting him and suspecting another because they voted you? OMGUS.
Why are you so defensive about them, and trying to prevent yourself getting lynched as opposed to actually trying to get the scum lynched? Voting Hapah without proper reasons is making you very suspicious in my eyes. Assuming that because someone voted you, then another person did makes them both scum is bullshit. Or did you already know that, Mr.Scumbucket?

Give some proper reasons for voting them.

If Hapah flips town, Lynch me. I will personally vote myself if Hapah is town.
Remember we have 7 players if we lose 2 more the game is not lost, but if we mislynch 3 times, we lose.
If Hapah flips scum, seriously consider supercharzard as a potential scum candidate.

However I won’t let Dice’s (and his avatar’s) sacrifice stand in vain. I will see these scum lynched.
Vote Hapah

Brain hurts, I sleep now.

[Jiokuy]

PPS: the stuff with super is more of a suspicion, the Hapah is far more certain, upon review my post did not differentiate that enough.
Hapah is scum, I stake my life on it.

[Shakerag]

[Welcome to D2 everyone.  Now we've got some guaranteed solid information to work from.  Flying Dice and borno are confirmed (posthumously) as town.  Obviously, any theories any of us had in our heads that relied upon one of the two being scum are rendered invalid.  Now it helps to look at each player's interactions (or lack thereof) with the flipped players.]

In light of the recent flips, I would have to put my vote on eithir Urist or Hapah.

It is very WIFOM though, If Hapah was scum, and he knew borno was town, then he really pushed that vote hard and that makes him suspicious now that he has flipped. As a matter though he did directly lead to the lynching of a power role, so my vote is on him. for now.

[Are you implying that Hapah somehow knew borno had a power role?  If so, how do you think he knew?  Also, generally speaking, applying the attribute of WIFOM to your own reasons is a ... poor idea.]

PPS: the Nightkill looks more like a personal kill than a strategic one. Who argued/disapproved/disagreeded with dive the most. Or who was #1 on Dice's list.

[I have the honor of bestowing upon you a piece of advice that has, in all likelihood, been given in almost every beginner's game.  Do not try to reason out why scum picked their target for the NK.  You will most likely be wrong.]


Supercharazad: borno flipped.  Are you going to make with the investigations now?

Would it be considered in poor taste to start off with "I told you so" and "You guys are dumb"?
Imma re-read day 1, be back in a bit

[In a beginner's game, yes =P]

My vote on Hapah still stands, because he's a scummy son of a bitch.

[I don't see a vote here, however.  Either you forgot some color or you incorrectly assume votes carry over from the previous day.]


Hapah:  I am getting too sleepy to finish this post right now, but expect that I'm going to knock on your door in the near (read: very likely Monday) future. 

[Supercharazad]

Shakerag: I had IRL stuff to do yesterday.



Jiouky:

If Hapah flips town, Lynch me. I will personally vote myself if Hapah is town.
Remember we have 7 players if we lose 2 more the game is not lost, but if we mislynch 3 times, we lose.
If Hapah flips scum, seriously consider supercharzard as a potential scum candidate.

However I won’t let Dice’s (and his avatar’s) sacrifice stand in vain. I will see these scum lynched.
Vote Hapah

You obviously want Hapah lynched, and if he is scum I will heavily suspect you of being his scumpartner. My reasons?
1: If you were scum and knew he was your scumpartner, you could bus him, and because of my "defense" of him earlier, you would have another easy target.
2: If you were scum and knew he was your scumpartner, you would have nothing to fear by vowing to vote yourself if he flipped town because it wouldn't be a possiblity.

You're either scummier than a hard water sink, or you're really bad at being town. Vote Joikuy
I'm also going to quote from the Scumhunting bible, which puts  "voting yourself for any reason" as a scumtell. Threats and vows to vote yourself mean that either way he flips you still have scumtells on you.

[Supercharazad]

I just realised I'm commiting chainsaw defense. Huh.
Eh, I'm going to call this justified in any case.

[Jiokuy]

Nah It is completely justified. I had not considered that aspect. It was a huge flaw in my attack, and really I should not have included the part about super, if only because it misdirects the focus. I still think your scum, but I cannot prove it.

So I guess the lesson here is, when making big posts make sure to read them from a scum's perspective as well.

[Supercharazad]

I doubt looking at things from the scum's perspective would be too hard for you, scumbucket.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Just popping in for a quick note, more tomorrow.

Jiokuy:

If Hapah flips town, Lynch me. I will personally vote myself if Hapah is town.
Remember we have 7 players if we lose 2 more the game is not lost, but if we mislynch 3 times, we lose.

If Hapah flips town, tomorrow is LyLo, and sacrificing yourself would cost town the game if you were town. Think about it: Currently there are five town and two scum. If Hapah gets lynched and flips town, there would be three town and two scum (because nightkill). In order for the town to actually lynch scum, they'd need a unanimous vote for scum to not be able to tie the vote and win. The only way that town would have a chance would be if you were scum, but I doubt you are because staking your life on Hapah being scum tells me that you don't know his alignment for certain. Or you're bussing, but at this point you don't seem to have any reason to do that.

[Supercharazad]

Therefore, he's either stupid or scummier than a hard water sink.

[Jiokuy]

Never ever underestimate my stupidity. That said, yeah, I have not scumhunted before. I'm assuming I did it wrong?

[obolisk0430]

My vote on Hapah still stands, because he's a scummy son of a bitch.

[I don't see a vote here, however.  Either you forgot some color or you incorrectly assume votes carry over from the previous day.]

That right there.  Whoops.
Hapah

[Jim Groovester]

[1] Supercharazad: Urist Imiknorris
[3] Hapah: Jiokuy, Shakerag, obolisk0430
[1] Jiokuy: Supercharazad

Not voting: Edio, Hapah

Day ends Tuesday 9:00 PM MST.

Prods may be requested. If I determine that a player with a prod request has not posted within 24 hours, excluding weekends, they will be prodded.

[Supercharazad]

Wait, Urist Imiknorris, why are you voting me?

[Jiokuy]

Vote Extend, Hapah has not responded yet and I would like to hear his opinions.