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[piecewise]

OOC thread
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=135884.msg4961066

[piecewise]

 
Could I please get a price/clarification on the following things:

8. The base and the valley are pretty big. Artillery with the force and accuracy to hit like that might be expensive, depending on the size and the shells being used. Just standard Gauss, size-of-a-man shell?

-Yes, how much would one of these cost?

9. Depends on the system it uses to get around. If you want it on rails or something it can be relatively cheap, but if you want it running around on robotic legs, it will cost more.

-The cheapest option. I'm guessing rails, wheels or threads?
-8 bunkers, spaced around the complex, with small rooms under them to hide from artillery and tunnels between them and key points in our base (like the airfield). Tunnels should have some cheap sensors, and collapsable with remote-controlled explosives (controlled by Steve, and just enough explosives to close down the tunnel and prevent infiltration).
-If you have a LESHO rifle, is it possible to have non rocket-guided ammo? If yes, could it be considered as a bigger gauss-cannon, or does it still have penalties for short-range?

(For following, assume these genemods: general upgrade to dex, senses, end. If Doc can manage this, they should run faster, jump further, and be better than the normal sod. Nothing extraordinary though, just a general small upgrade. Increase intelligence for regular sods so they can follow orders from their sod commanders or player characters, sod commanders should have good tactical insight and creative thinking, but check if they are still obedient soldiers then (so no sudden "oh gawd existential angst" *suicide*).)

Spoiler: Light Infantry Sod Squad (click to show/hide)

• 1x squad leader: Laser rifle, monorazor, comms pack (other troopers carry smaller comm devices), 1x frag nade, 1x smoke nade, general supplies (knife, an extra clip for rifle, binoculars, a flare, little bit of rations,... basically, stuff you'd expect a soldier to have
• 1x heavy weapons expert: rocket launcher (frag rounds (infantry), shaped charge rounds (heavy armor) and homing missile (aerial, think like a stinger), handlaser, metal baton, general supplies
• 1x support trooper: Laser rifle, 1 Emergency kit, metal baton, 1 scout eye, blowtorch, wirecutter, computer cables and small crap (basically this is medic/aux/handiwork support trooper, so i think you get the idea), general supplies
• 2x grenadier: Gauss rifle, special gauss ammo (1x redshot, 1x AP round), metal baton, 2x frag nades, 2x smoke nades, 1x EMP nades, 1x flashbang, some spare ammo for heavy, general supplies

Spoiler: sod Sniper Squad (click to show/hide)

Genemodded sods, at least one commander grade

• 1x sniper: Gauss rifle customised for ranged combat, special gauss ammo (3x AP, 2x Red shot, 1x melter round), handlaser, cameyes, stealth system (nothing too fancy, something like the spray-on adaptive camouflage), small jump pack for reaching difficult places, general supplies
• 1x spotter: Gauss rifle or shotgun, monorazor, cameyes, 1x smoke nade, 1x flashbang, ammo for the sniper rifle, stealth system, small jump pack, general supplies

((This game does not run on WH40k physics. Look at the Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte for issues with super-heavy tanks. Still not as bad as giant humanoid mecha, but pretty bad nonetheless.

((The only way you could get supertanks to work is with synthflesh, since the more there is of that the more potent it becomes. Square cube law? HA, screw you I have space magic!))

So really, I recommend that we don't diverge from what the UWM does without first proving that our new method is more effective.

((Good points, but so far we haven't really gone very special yet. Sods with standard Armory equipment, artillery and bunkers are all basic stuff with proven effectivity.))

We already know the UWM has programmed sods to fight UWM forces (See them attacking Miya/Flint), so how many situations are we actually going to run into that require creative thought?

((We don't know all that in great detail, so if you want to ghelp and do some research, that would be great. My posts are already pretty big, and I don't want to burden PW with huge posts asking a million things.))

Woohoo! Now to put my own character as the twelfth page!
Wait a sec...

Is this really necessary GWG?

Eh.

((GWG, I think several people would appreciate it if you cut down on posts that are fairly... redundant. Really, posting the same thing in multiple threads only clutters things and doesn't accomplish anything. Though once we have an OOC thread, it won't be a problem anymore I guess.))

With enough power to hit anywhere in the valley? Oh, 30, 40 something around there.

Rails are cheapest. Assume around 15.

Bunkers are the before quoted price (Which I am too lazy to go back and look up) and the tunnel system..ahhh all together like 10. But thats for everything, tunnels, sensors, explosives, etc, so it's not much.

The short range penalties for the lesho are because it's barrel is like 6-8 feet long or something. You really can't aim it in short range under normal circumstances.

First squad...hmmm well 25 for the basic sods (5 each), And...oh...2 more for each when modified so...35. Then equipment...15 all together or so. So...50.

Second one, 25.

 

((Well he seems to be functioning pretty fine, so I guess you could just leave the rock in there and pull the neurons out of him. Not sure what'll happen to the fleshorror when he leaves though.))

Co-Ordinates of Man?

Exit Flesh-horror. Position hole-cutter above teammate using co-ordinates provided by Lyra.

Lyra Cat-blocks you, so to speak.

((Just for the record, Baneblades aren't *that* tough in the WH40k universe. They just require an AP shell to break open a hole to put an HE shell through.

They're still awesome, of course.

And yes, I have read some WH40k books. Dan Abnett, to be exact.))

Price estimate on the following proposal, please:

a network of bunkers buried deep underground and armored from which the assault team can control remote weapons and survey the landscape. Say four heavy lasers and four mortars per base, spread out around the center of the base in the landscape. Personally, I think they would work best in the mountains, connected with a collapsible tunnel network. I know someone else proposed something similar, but I wanted to get my version out there.

Well, in the last two posts with Radio I gave him prices for a lot of this sort of stuff, so look up there.

"Lovely. Okay, we found our man, or what's left of him, now we need to figure out how to get him out without pissing off the giant flesh monster we're standing in. Hrmm. Fuck it, I'll just ask nicely. Seems to have worked so far."

Activate the loudspeaker.

"Okay, thanks for showing us our teammate. Can we have him back now? Please?"

((Firing a laser into the brain of a giant creature we're still inside isn't a good idea, mostly because it seems indifferent about us, or at least trusts us enough to be allowed to see its real brain. We can always resort to violence later.))

It doesn't respond. Well, it responds by not doing anything, I suppose would be the most correct way to say that.

How much RUs would it cost to recreate Beat-all Tek's Ultraregen Treatment and give it to all our Sods? Since we don't have to worry about copyright and UWM's laws anymore and those micro-bots were constructed by humans, we can recreate them, right? And since they're all clones, the cost will go down since we won't have to imprint the micro-bots to each and every one of them.

(Did the energy-proof stuff from the asteroid ever get reverse-engineered?  That would be a damn nice thing to use as mobile cover.)

((Ah, yes, good idea.))

Can we use that laser/heat/energy absorbing flatground for our ships/buildings/armor? Any results from that organic computer I got back from the alien planetoid? Or those crystals that made electricity and radiation, any chance we could hurl those at enemies?

Reverse engineering mesk's immortality bugs is a possibility...but expensive and difficult. We could probably get the things themselves copied and working, but they'd be prohibitively expensive to put in every sod.

Research is still on going. Probably won't be done in time for use here; but soon.

Get ready to help pull up people from below quickly and help Teal however I can.

You help teal find some online sensitivity training.

[Xantalos]

Finalize my mental image of the thing I'm going to do (ie charge shapeshifting one more time for +-3).

[smurfingtonthethird]

RU cost to plant some near maturity 'Bloater trees' (rapid fire seed exploding trees) near suitable air drop points.

[GreatWyrmGold]

RU cost to plant some near maturity 'Bloater trees' (rapid fire seed exploding trees) near suitable air drop points.

((Even assuming that the seeds and not the trees explode...why? Mechanical systems would have better aim (due to having much more than no senses to aim with), better firepower (due to more flexibility with the chemicals and containment systems that could be used, among others), and would be easier to repair. They also use tech we have. What possible advantage would gengineered plants have over machines?))

[NAV]

((They are not genengineered, they are a natural alien species mentioned earlier. This means it is most likely impossible to get a shipment to Hephaestus on time. Any more discussion goes in ooc.))

[smurfingtonthethird]

EDITED: wrong thread

[Lenglon]

Still waiting for instructions from doc.

[kisame12794]

"Maybe I should be more specific."

Activate loudspeaker.

"Okay, can we remove our teammate's body from your brain. I have something that can do it without pain, and appears to leave everything functional, even while detached."

((This has bad idea written all over it. Also, Internet at my new house is currently intermittent and confined to a certain section of floor, so I may or may not be able to post often.))

[Radio Controlled]

((Disclaimer: since this is directly linked to the mission and the planning of the defense, I think it'll be best if I post this here. If there are people who would prefer this discussion to be had in the OOC thread though, say so and I'll delete this and post it there. I'm just not sure really.))

In other news, with the "Generic Sod Clones" I was thinking along the lines of the clones from Star Wars. We could have specialized guys with enhanced intelligence, deck and end, sorta like the ARC troopers. Also, what armor were you planning on giving them, if any? Just MKII's might be helpful.))

Spoiler: Sod Commando (click to show/hide)

Enhanced Sod: 1x Gauss Assault Rifle(1x red shot clip, 1x extra clip), 1x mono razor, 1x frag, 1x flash bang, 1x smoke, 1x emergency kit, 1x Mk II (maybe with some ablative plating?), Rations kit/general supplies

And other gear/ specialization, according to squad and mission

((Also, this can have their weaponry and squad amount changed due to the situation.))

((I wasn't giving them a Mk.II because
-mission isn't in space, so no need for spacesuit (though if we send some of them along with the boarding teams, they'd need Mk.II suits for sure)
-they feel no pain, so no need for that feature
-giving an emergency kit to one trooper is cheaper than giving Mk.II to all of them
Didn't add extra armor than a normal (UWM) sod has because, unless you give them either an exoskeleton or heavy strength genemods, any armor that would actually cover fully from basic weapons would be too heavy, and combat shields are't flexible enough. I'm kinda banking on there being cover available to keep them alive. And of course, armor=expensive if you want to give it to all troopers

Also, I'm not 100% sure what makes that commando sod different from a 'regular' one, kinda looks like one from the light squad but with different gear. But if you wanna design a high-end commando unit, why not go for a 3-man synthflesh sod team? (you could design a lone trooper, but doing it in teams means 1 trooper doesn't need to cover all situations, you can have some specialization)

Some notes for the people helping with defense planning:
-deadline is still Sunday this week
-I added something in the 'current mission' wiki page: here you can find proposed and approved projects/expenditures, as well as team layouts. Mostly so I don't have to copy-paste that info a thousand times.

These are some things I think we'll need (with actual costs and such):

• 1 extra laser battery: 100 RU                            to ensure full air cover
• 2 Steve bots/mission 7 bots: 2x25 = 50 RU          one for extra defense of the batteries, one for Reserve team (or both for batteries, depends
• 2 laser battery defenses (one for the one we have, one for the one we'll build): 2x10 RU = 20 RU   
• 2 heavy artillery: 2x30 = 60 RU                          for shelling enemy and ensuring they can't outgun us from range
• 6 mortars on rails: 6x 15 = 90 RU  fire support, lower range but more bang per buck (rails ensure we don't waste resources placing mortars where they don't attack anyways
• 5 Light Infantry Sod Squad: 5x 50 = 250   main npc support, flexible enough to face most threats but cheap enough that losing a squad isn't the end of the world.

Spoiler: Light Infantry Sod Squad (click to show/hide)

• 1x squad leader: Laser rifle, monorazor, comms pack (other troopers carry smaller comm devices), 1x frag nade, 1x smoke nade, general supplies (knife, an extra clip for rifle, binoculars, a flare, little bit of rations,... basically, stuff you'd expect a soldier to have
• 1x heavy weapons expert: rocket launcher (frag rounds (infantry), shaped charge rounds (heavy armor) and homing missile (aerial, think like a stinger), handlaser, metal baton, general supplies
• 1x support trooper: Laser rifle, 1 Emergency kit, metal baton, 1 scout eye, blowtorch, wirecutter, computer cables and small crap (basically this is medic/aux/handiwork support trooper, so i think you get the idea), general supplies
• 2x grenadier: Gauss rifle, special gauss ammo (1x redshot, 1x AP round), metal baton, 2x frag nades, 2x smoke nades, 1x EMP nades, 1x flashbang, some spare ammo for heavy, general supplies

• 2 Sod Sniper Squad: 2x 25 = 50 RU             specialized npc's for ranged coverage (and more flexible and subtle than artillery, though not as powerful

Spoiler: sod Sniper Squad (click to show/hide)

Genemodded sods, at least one commander grade

• 1x sniper: Gauss rifle customised for ranged combat, special gauss ammo (3x AP, 2x Red shot, 1x melter round), handlaser, cameyes, stealth system (nothing too fancy, something like the spray-on adaptive camouflage), small jump pack for reaching difficult places, general supplies
• 1x spotter: Gauss rifle or shotgun, monorazor, cameyes, 1x smoke nade, 1x flashbang, ammo for the sniper rifle, stealth system, small jump pack, general supplies

That all comes down to 620 RU I think. Now, we still need a bunker complex, for that I propose the following:
-and inner circle of 6 bunkers (90 RU), defending the base 'close to home' so to speak
-an outer layer of 4 bunkers, placed in the mountains (like doomblade requested. I still think defending from the mountains, so far from base, isn't the most efficient way (mostly because we're tight on resources), but wanna give his idea a chance to.) (note: the valley is pretty big, so if we need to retreat from these it'll be a long way back. We have shuttles though, but the remaining bunkers will face getting outflanked. Having two layers does kinda give the benefits of defense in depth, so it has that going for it)

We could still add extra stuff to the bunkers themselves, but with the mortars-on-rails I don't think that'll be really necessary. Plus, if we accept all the above and this bunker plan, we'll have used 770 RU already. And we'll still need some to pay for Sean his private jet combat shuttles.))

[PyroDesu]

((Disclaimer: since this is directly linked to the mission and the planning of the defense, I think it'll be best if I post this here. If there are people who would prefer this discussion to be had in the OOC thread though, say so and I'll delete this and post it there. I'm just not sure really.))

-snip-

((Same disclaimer.

The ship refits are totaling 250RU if Sean gets his fire extinguisher of a blackship knockoff that can hull any lighter ships, or put a crater where an Avatar was, but only has 6 shots before it's out.

As well, I would still like to get a bit more information about Sod Squads before we make them - while any are undoubtedly useful, some could be more useful than others and I don't have quotes on them yet. Also, I'm not sure about your cost estimates of them - all of that equipment costs as well, and we don't know exactly what it'll all cost since PW is eyeballing it.))

[Sean Mirrsen]

((Disclaimer: since this is directly linked to the mission and the planning of the defense, I think it'll be best if I post this here. If there are people who would prefer this discussion to be had in the OOC thread though, say so and I'll delete this and post it there. I'm just not sure really.))

-snip-

((Same disclaimer.

The ship refits are totaling 250RU if Sean gets his fire extinguisher of a blackship knockoff that can hull any lighter ships, or put a crater where an Avatar was, but only has 6 shots before it's out.

As well, I would still like to get a bit more information about Sod Squads before we make them - while any are undoubtedly useful, some could be more useful than others and I don't have quotes on them yet. Also, I'm not sure about your cost estimates of them - all of that equipment costs as well, and we don't know exactly what it'll all cost since PW is eyeballing it.))

((We can probably disarm the two regular shuttles and reduce the Courier payload to one missile if we really need some RU change.))

[Radio Controlled]

As well, I would still like to get a bit more information about Sod Squads before we make them - while any are undoubtedly useful, some could be more useful than others and I don't have quotes on them yet. Also, I'm not sure about your cost estimates of them - all of that equipment costs as well, and we don't know exactly what it'll all cost since PW is eyeballing it.))

((I'd like it as well if I could research all the different sod options and abilities in fine detail before deciding, but really, we've already gone on long enough with this. If you can get your cybersods worked out before sunday, I'm perfectly willing to add some of those and removing a few other things (like only 4 or 3 light infantry squads). But they'll actually have to be fully worked out, like these examples (so equipment and robobody all covered). But if you can't get that done in time for next mission, you could always leave it be and then design them without any hurry after the Sword leaves again. You can roleplay it as Simus not getting the R&D done in only one year.
Also:

First squad...hmmm well 25 for the basic sods (5 each), And...oh...2 more for each when modified so...35. Then equipment...15 all together or so. So...50.
Second one, 25.

This seems to indicate that the full cost of the squads (sods, equipment, genemodding) is covered with that 50 RU))

((We can probably disarm the two regular shuttles and reduce the Courier payload to one missile if we really need some RU change.))

((I choose not to get involved with the shuttles so you guys could work that out on your own. But yeah, unless we remove some stuff from that list, 250 RU would make us go a bit above budget (and even removing stuff means almost all the budget is gone).))

[GreatWyrmGold]

((Are you sure we only need one laser battery to ensure full air cover?

Other than that...I can't really think of stuff, nor an IC way to introduce it. Grate might come up with a couple little projects if he ever finishes enough of his research [mission replay VR], or gets inspired otherwise, but they probably wouldn't be large-scale.))

[Parisbre56]

((@Sean: I don't remember exactly what you got for the ships but I think you had some interplanetary transports or something like that in there. Since those things won't be useful for the defence (unless you use those to tow asteroids or something) wouldn't it be better to just leave those stuff as scrap or even scrap them completely and just rebuild them later?))

Requesting RU cost of the following Anti-Ship missile:
Crusher: A simple missile with a warhead made of modified gravity rounds. When the missile is close to its target, the warhead detonates, spraying the gravity rounds forward like buckshot.
If possible test viability against ships with point defence lasers. Would they be able to reach the ships? How much damage would they cause compared to weapons normally used for space combat?
Do the same but with nuclear rounds. Are nuclear rounds more destructive and/or cheaper?

Also, check if the Terror-Drone idea is a good idea and if they could be designed, perfected and mass produced in time for the coming battle:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The terror drones are a bunch of small spiderbots designed to capture ships. Individually they are weak and stupid, but the more they are the better they become, because they gain more processing power and the ability to combine into more useful hunting packs.
Their primary purpose is to board ships and cause havoc, disabling the ship or even capturing it.
They would be launched at enemy ships in great numbers, with missiles. One missile would carry many drones. The drones would be disguised as scrap and debris to increase their chances of reaching their target intact, should the missile get shot by point defence lasers.
There would be many kinds of drones, each suited for a specific task.
The main kind of drone would be the Light Laser Drone. The LLD would use a relatively weak laser/generator combo to move around the enemy ship as stealthily as possible (through vents and maintenance areas probably) and kill targets of opportunity (lone crewmen for example). Its main goal would be to defend other, more important drones, use their lasers to carve new paths to their objectives and destroy equipment. Even things like killing the lights would help.
Then there will be a variety of less common drones. For example:
Breach Drones would carry some sort of heavy weapon or explosive they can use to bypass heavy armour. Probably something one-shot, like nuke or chemical laser or a mini-plasma projector. If one of those manages to make it inside the ship, it would seek the most juicy target to use its heavy weapon in.
Gremlin Drones would be equipped with engineering tools, specialized programming and a more powerful radio that will allow them to bypass some of the ship's electronics (and thus most of its security) and directly control its systems. They could, for example, take direct control of the engines by messing with the appropriate wires instead of trying to hack the computer.
Uplink Drones will have a powerful transmitter and receiver with which to communicate with us and in turn receive orders. This will be extremely useful if gremlin drones manage to gain control of some of the more important systems like weapons and engines.
CPU Drones will hang back in safe areas and provide extra data and extra processing capabilities.
Repair Drones will repair other drones or even create new ones if the materials are available (recycling dead drones for example or using scrap laying around).
The drones would probably be programmed by giving virtual drones combat scenarios and all info we have on UWM ships and weapons and then being left to figure out the best course of action on their own. The data would then be used to program the actual drones. Alternatively, the Doctor could design brains for them.
What makes the drones great is their small size and ability to remain undetected and avoid confrontation, essentially infesting a ship and slowly killing it or taking it over like cancer. Another great thing is their ability to work as a team. For example a Gremlin or Breach Drone could bypass a heavy door a light laser drone can't get through on its own while the light laser drone protects it.
While not great in direct combat, they would be able to cause significant damage if they are deployed near the jump point, thus giving them ample time to work their magic. And if they are lucky, they should be able to take over ships instead of just disabling them. The only 2 problems I see is Repair Drones creating too many drones, to the point where the ship they captured becomes unusable and some drones getting damaged or corrupted and refusing to listen to their shutdown signal.
A great feature, if it could be made to work, would be the ability to literally combine to form larger tools. For example, many light laser drones combining into one heavy laser drone (although I guess they could achieve the same effect by concentrating fire on the same spot) or a CPU drone could combine with a gremlin drone to give it a better ability to control the ship.
I guess they could also be used on the ground, but probably not on this ground battle. Hephaestus doesn't have enough cramped spaces for them to be useful. Maybe if we attack a world with skyscrapers full of humans and usable tech.