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[Tiruin]

Not to interrupt but-...

I have an idea to. We all know Tiruin didnt think Darisuh was scum, maybe he said to Darisuh he was the cop and then Darisuh killed him? Just thinking out loud.

Ouch.

You may not PM other players other than the mod.

Also, Book does it because it is in the context of the specific Mafia game. Take Cybrid Mafia for example, RP'ing is needed.

You cannot RP in the BM, as here you learn the basics of mafia. Flavor is flavor.

[Dr.Phibes]

Not to interrupt but-...

I have an idea to. We all know Tiruin didnt think Darisuh was scum, maybe he said to Darisuh he was the cop and then Darisuh killed him? Just thinking out loud.

Ouch.

You may not PM other players other than the mod.

Also, Book does it because it is in the context of the specific Mafia game. Take Cybrid Mafia for example, RP'ing is needed.

You cannot RP in the BM, as here you learn the basics of mafia. Flavor is flavor.

Okey, sry for that one...

Can you please explain more about the ouch part? Or maybe you shouldnt, that ouch meant something like, i was out of track.

[Tiruin]

You cannot get answers out of those who are dead/non-playing. They will not answer if it is related to the game.

That was a side-comment. Do not think about what I've said anymore. Please.

[Strategia]

Darisuh, why did you vote on Painiac when you said i was the most scummy in this game? You know, dont bother answer beacuse i know you have problems with that. I will make this alot easier for you and answer it myself. Beacuse you are scum, you suspected me beacuse you thought i would be an easy target, but when your ass was on deep water you quickly changed to Painiac. You have done nothing productive and are the worst IC EVER. You are just suspecting those who suspect you wich feels like a scumtell to me. Inb4 you vote me, why am i scum? Would actually be nice if you answerd that question. If you do however vote me you either suck at scumhunting or you are scum. Even if you are a town you should stop think you are the best mafia player in the world, knowing whos scum and whos not, beacuse you clearly dont know. Off topic, why is roleplaying so bad? doesnt Book do it all the time?

That is the most incoherent, illogical pile of drivel I have seen in a while, Dr.Phibes.

I have an idea to. We all know Tiruin didnt think Darisuh was scum, maybe he said to Darisuh he was the cop and then Darisuh killed him? Just thinking out loud.

Then again, this sentence indicates that you have absolutely no idea of how Mafia works, on a very basic level. Given that you've already displayed your ignorance several times before, I kinda doubt that Darvi is telling you to do this, so you may just be a massively incompetent noobish newbie, rather than scum. But since you're still dripping scum like you just took a swim in the duck pond, I'll keep my vote on you for now.

[Dr.Phibes]

Darisuh, why did you vote on Painiac when you said i was the most scummy in this game? You know, dont bother answer beacuse i know you have problems with that. I will make this alot easier for you and answer it myself. Beacuse you are scum, you suspected me beacuse you thought i would be an easy target, but when your ass was on deep water you quickly changed to Painiac. You have done nothing productive and are the worst IC EVER. You are just suspecting those who suspect you wich feels like a scumtell to me. Inb4 you vote me, why am i scum? Would actually be nice if you answerd that question. If you do however vote me you either suck at scumhunting or you are scum. Even if you are a town you should stop think you are the best mafia player in the world, knowing whos scum and whos not, beacuse you clearly dont know. Off topic, why is roleplaying so bad? doesnt Book do it all the time?

That is the most incoherent, illogical pile of drivel I have seen in a while, Dr.Phibes.

I have an idea to. We all know Tiruin didnt think Darisuh was scum, maybe he said to Darisuh he was the cop and then Darisuh killed him? Just thinking out loud.

Then again, this sentence indicates that you have absolutely no idea of how Mafia works, on a very basic level. Given that you've already displayed your ignorance several times before, I kinda doubt that Darvi is telling you to do this, so you may just be a massively incompetent noobish newbie, rather than scum. But since you're still dripping scum like you just took a swim in the duck pond, I'll keep my vote on you for now.

Well the last thing is kinda wrong suspcting me for. I said thinking out loud, i could just have kept it to myself, but shared it just to see what people thought.

Strategia, How can you have so wrong? I dont know how to defend myself against baseless accusations, so you will prolly never take that vote down. But have it your way, dont really care if i die. Cant really do much, i write really bad and are noob, you guys dont really listen of what i have to say in the first place.

Strategia, why do you defend Dariush all the time?

[Dariush]

If you call me Darisuh one more time I'll stop being cute and fluffy and become a murderous maniac.

Note that I said that I considered you two equally scummy. But yes, now you are the most scummy, Dr.Phibes. (also nice fail at taunting)

Oh, and on the IC thing. I tried to be my usual helpful IC-self (as I've been doing and succeeding for... three BMs, if memory serves me correctly), but you three assfuckers barged in and decided to play wiseasses. Since Tiruin and (probably) Strategia don't need leading by the hand anymore and Bulldog has only replaced in, I don't see why I should be a good Samaritan.

[Dr.Phibes]

If you call me Darisuh one more time I'll stop being cute and fluffy and become a murderous maniac.

Note that I said that I considered you two equally scummy. But yes, now you are the most scummy, Dr.Phibes. (also nice fail at taunting)

Oh, and on the IC thing. I tried to be my usual helpful IC-self (as I've been doing and succeeding for... three BMs, if memory serves me correctly), but you three assfuckers barged in and decided to play wiseasses. Since Tiruin and (probably) Strategia don't need leading by the hand anymore and Bulldog has only replaced in, I don't see why I should be a good Samaritan.

Dariush

[Dr.Phibes]

If you call me Darisuh one more time I'll stop being cute and fluffy and become a murderous maniac.

Note that I said that I considered you two equally scummy. But yes, now you are the most scummy, Dr.Phibes. (also nice fail at taunting)

Oh, and on the IC thing. I tried to be my usual helpful IC-self (as I've been doing and succeeding for... three BMs, if memory serves me correctly), but you three assfuckers barged in and decided to play wiseasses. Since Tiruin and (probably) Strategia don't need leading by the hand anymore and Bulldog has only replaced in, I don't see why I should be a good Samaritan.

(Fail! Happened to click post instead of preview)
Darisuh, There you did it again. You voted on me beacuse i suspect you. Both of you just votes on me beacuse what i wrote was bad, you havent really said why you both voted on me except " Herp derp hes SCUMMM". And what! Taunting you? I was simpply telling the truth. I said it before, you are either terrible at scumhunting or scum.

[MagmaMcFry]

Dariush, since the beginning of this game, you have done absolutely no coherent scumhunting. All you're doing is "ICing" in your own twisted way (overreacting, insulting and being hypocritical), answering questions (or not), and voting people for washy reasons. You are expected to play this game. You are not a non-playing IC. Play the damn game.

Also, "You are scummy" is not the same as "I don't like you". You are repeatedly failing to notice the difference. Also, "You are scummy" is not a good reason. I think you are able to be more specific. I also think that you were able to be more specific the whole time. But if you had been more specific, people would have noticed sooner that your "reasons" are complete and utter "I vote you because I hate you" bullshit.

IronyOwl, I expect you to do something too. You are also not a non-playing IC, and this game should be of at least some importance to you. If you can't play, ask to be replaced. If you can play, then don't hold back, we'll learn something.

Scelly9, you're also not contributing. During the last BM you were substantially more active, stating your opinion even if you didn't have something important to say.
Dr.Phibes:

I have an idea to. We all know Tiruin didnt think Darisuh was scum, maybe he said to Darisuh he was the cop and then Darisuh killed him? Just thinking out loud.

Ouch.

Can you please explain more about the ouch part? Or maybe you shouldnt, that ouch meant something like, i was out of track.

You may not PM other players other than the mod:

You may not PM other players other than the mod.

This means that if Tiruin told Dariush that he was a cop, then we would have seen it. All game-related discussion must be held in this thread or scumchat/deadchat.

Well the last thing is kinda wrong suspcting me for. I said thinking out loud, i could just have kept it to myself, but shared it just to see what people thought.

Yes, the last thing is not a reason to suspect you for, but it shows that you don't fully understand the game's rules. Have some rules.

[Darvi]

If you call me Darisuh one more time I'll stop being cute and fluffy and become a murderous maniac.

Okay, who gave him a time machine?

[MagmaMcFry]

I will.

[Strategia]

Well the last thing is kinda wrong suspcting me for. I said thinking out loud, i could just have kept it to myself, but shared it just to see what people thought.

That's the part I meant that was more a noobtell of tremendous intensity. As several others have noted before me, players cannot communicate with one another. Also, your attempt to read the nightkill is facepalmingly atrocious, it stands to WIFOM as WIFOM stands to actual scumhunting.

Strategia, How can you have so wrong? I dont know how to defend myself against baseless accusations, so you will prolly never take that vote down. But have it your way, dont really care if i die. Cant really do much, i write really bad and are noob, you guys dont really listen of what i have to say in the first place.

.....okay then, I don't really have much of anything to say here.

Strategia, why do you defend Dariush all the time?

Because I took a meta standpoint and approached this like a Beginners' Mafia, rather than just any other regular game of Mafia. If this had been any other game of Mafia, I wouldn't have given two shits about Painiac's opener, nor his constant pursuit of Dariush. But since this is a BM, and Dariush is one of the two ICs the town might have, and an active one at that, while scum always has a private IC, Painiac's attempts to railroad Dariush right from the start looked like an attack on the town where they're most vulnerable. Furthermore, like I said, Dariush never really passes up an opportunity to call those opposed to him "goatfuckers" and the like, so I thought there was an entirely realistic possibility that Darvi was urging the scum to intentionally aggravate Dariush, thus confusing noobtown and leading them to vote Dariush and why am I laying out my suspicions right here where the scum can read them.

It's always important to take note of the particular type of Mafia game you're in, and adjust your play accordingly. Therefore, since this is a BM, I play it like a BM, which is why I chainsawed Painiac - not because he was going after Dariush the player, but because he was going after Dariush the IC.

Although I did start to get some doubts as to Painiac's scumminess towards the end of D1, I really just wanted that phase to be over with, and I really did want Painiac out of the way. So far, I want you, Dr.Phibes, out of the way as well, which is why I'm voting you; however, as the day develops, I may switch targets to someone else. Truth be told, I was considering opening up a line of investigation into Tiruin on D2, since he's more experienced than anyone here other than the BMs, but since Tiruin flipped cop during the nightkill (I strongly suspect he was cleared out precisely because of his experience) that's now a moot point.

For the time being, I'll observe everyone else, reply to any questions and ask any questions that come to mind. I have no intention to stop scumhunting. I'll definitely be paying attention to Magma and Dariush, at least. I'm also planning to do a re-read of D1 to see if I've missed anything and maybe develop some further suspicions based on what I find.

[IronyOwl]

Dr. Phibes:

I have an idea to. We all know Tiruin didnt think Darisuh was scum, maybe he said to Darisuh he was the cop and then Darisuh killed him? Just thinking out loud.

As others have mentioned, this isn't possible. Even if it was, however, it'd be bad logic.

WIFOM is attempting to guess at someone's reasoning and motivations when they know you'll be guessing at their reasoning and motivations. The result is an infinite circle of:

He'd want to do this...
...but he'd know I'd know that, so he'd do the opposite to throw me for a loop...
...but he'd know I'd be expecting him to throw me for a loop, so he'd just do the most obvious thing...
...but he'd know I'd know he was trying to double-fake me out, so he'd do the exact opposite again...

and so on and so forth. What's more, often it's not even as simple as that- someone could have a completely different line of reasoning than you're thinking they do, meaning your speculation is worthless from the very start.

In the example you just gave, for instance, you were thinking in terms of Tiruin's role as it relates to Dariush. But what if Tiruin wasn't killed because he was a cop? What if he was killed because he was a good player, or suspected or didn't suspect a specific person? If you start off thinking "Hey, scum would want to do this" and you're wrong, you never even make it into the pointless "but he'd know that I'd know that he knew that I knew" loop and are wrong and pointless from the very start.


Thus, unless you have a damned good reason otherwise, do not attempt to read into nightkills. It may seem tempting, but there's really too many variables to get any kind of a meaningful answer out of it.



McFry:

IronyOwl, I expect you to do something too. You are also not a non-playing IC, and this game should be of at least some importance to you. If you can't play, ask to be replaced. If you can play, then don't hold back, we'll learn something.

I know, this is terrible.



Strategia:

Because I took a meta standpoint and approached this like a Beginners' Mafia, rather than just any other regular game of Mafia. If this had been any other game of Mafia, I wouldn't have given two shits about Painiac's opener, nor his constant pursuit of Dariush. But since this is a BM, and Dariush is one of the two ICs the town might have, and an active one at that, while scum always has a private IC, Painiac's attempts to railroad Dariush right from the start looked like an attack on the town where they're most vulnerable. Furthermore, like I said, Dariush never really passes up an opportunity to call those opposed to him "goatfuckers" and the like, so I thought there was an entirely realistic possibility that Darvi was urging the scum to intentionally aggravate Dariush, thus confusing noobtown and leading them to vote Dariush and why am I laying out my suspicions right here where the scum can read them.

It's always important to take note of the particular type of Mafia game you're in, and adjust your play accordingly. Therefore, since this is a BM, I play it like a BM, which is why I chainsawed Painiac - not because he was going after Dariush the player, but because he was going after Dariush the IC.

But what made you think Dariush wasn't scum? Or rather, what made you think Painiac's opener was a malicious attempt on a town IC, and not something else?

[Strategia]

But what made you think Dariush wasn't scum? Or rather, what made you think Painiac's opener was a malicious attempt on a town IC, and not something else?

I'm not sure about Dariush, like I said I'll be looking closely at what he's posted so far and I may start questioning him as well. As for Painiac's opener, I didn't particularly think much of it at the time; note that I only started to go after Painiac here, and I'd already gone through RVS and hounded Phibes for a bit. In the end, it wasn't just the opener itself that stuck with me; it was the way he handled it. He seemed to be goading Dariush, and that, with his announcement that he had at least some insight into Dariush' meta, seemed a little off. It looked like Painiac was deliberately trying to get Dariush to explode, then shout "LOOK! SCUM!" to confuse the noobtown and make them think that foul language is somehow a scumtell.

As for why I think it's a deliberate attempt at a town IC, well, apart from admittedly falling for the gambler's fallacy (as Dariush himself pointed out), like I said, Dariush is an active IC, and it doesn't take a whole lot of research to find out that he's prone to colourful verbiage, especially when confronted with apparent stupidity and/or outright baiting. It would thus be easy to set up a situation where Dariush goes off like a firework, a situation which the scum could easily exploit to get Dariush lynched. Because ICs are supposed to be neutral when IC'ing, even scum ICs can help town scumhunt (and scum ICs could play noobtown like a fiddle and have them lynch whoever they want; since Dariush has explicitly refused to point out targets on several occasions, I consider this a point in his favour). Town ICs are scum magnets, because with (active) ICs gone, scum has a much easier time muddying the waters and winning the game. I've seen several references in earlier BMs to this tendency of ICs to die either at the end of D1 or during N1; therefore, Painiac's single-minded pursuit of Dariush, which led to a minor bandwagon, looked like a(n admittedly clumsily handled) scum ploy to me.

However, Painiac flipping town and Tiruin getting brutally murdered means that there is a level playing field of sorts. I'll be taking a good look at everyone who was active D1 (Dariush, Phibes and Magma), and hopefully I'll also get more information out of Scelly and Bulldog, oh wait, doing a quick re-read to see if I missed anyone revealed this

Ugh, it's like everything decided to happen at once in RL. I'm can't guarantee activity for a while, so I have to request replacement.
It's so stupid that I have to drop out right after getting in.

Mod, can we get a replacement or a modkill here?

Anyway, to summarise I'll basically try to look into everyone who's still playing. Although I stand by my position of getting rid of Phibes, I'm not actually entirely sure he's scum or just incredibly nooby, laconic newbtown, so I'll happily lynch someone else if I think I've found proper scum. If I don't, well, sucks to be Phibes then because I'll still want him gone. My order of preference goes "Pretty sure they're scum -> Phibes -> might be scum, not sure -> pretty sure they're town". And tbqh, Phibes hasn't really done much to lower his position on that list.

[Think0028]

zomara0292 has replaced in for BullDog. Day ends Wednesday.