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[Toaster]

Urist:  You're drinking the BS-laced wine there.  I'm not sure at all why you'd think it wouldn't be possible for someone not to be frontrunner twice.


Tiruin:  Mine only says "The Martyr" with no explicit references in flavor.  I do agree that it's probably Herman Cain.

Let's assume your guess that you can't be Frontrunner twice is crap.  Tell me, then, your exact theory on why Book is Frontrunner instead of you.

First of all, Bookthras, hold your fire and save it for the real third-party. I am not the third-party. As the votes go, I'll be lynched tonight or in the morning(?). Question as if we can lynch at night. Anyway, I am not lying about my Archy-ness.

I find it extremely telling here that you explicitly deny being the third party here, completely ignoring denying that you are dirty Liberal scum, nursing from the teat of Marx and dining at the table of Lenin.


Book:  Your call- I have no problem being inspected and checking Mii isn't a bad idea, but the idea of blowing away Tiruin appeals to me.


However, do we have any idea if the game will actually end if everyone anti-town is eliminated?  Given that we don't even know how far along we are...



Mod:  Will the game end if everyone but town is eliminated?

[Toaster]

PS:  I didn't day shift.  We should all claim day shifts, in any case.

[Urist McUselessNoble]

Urist:  You're drinking the BS-laced wine there.  I'm not sure at all why you'd think it wouldn't be possible for someone not to be frontrunner twice.

It may be BS, but I don't see how it's wine. 'Sides, there's plenty of time to get clarification on that point from Word of Mod. We're not even out of the night yet, nevermind the day.

[Mii]

Mii: On your FoS (Which I want to inquire about. Why FoS when you can vote? Why are you afraid, if I may call it, of laying down votes?). I was asleep, I couldn't join that conversation even if I wanted to. Sleep cured my typographical errors. Sleep cured migraines. Sleep cures confusion.

Where is your scumhunting by the way?

I see not why you say I am not scumhunting. I built a case against both Dariush and ToonyMan, one who turned out to be lynched and the other to be obvscum. Just because they are not in our viewpoint any longer does not necessarily mean that they do not count.

I also have been asking questions, which have either gotten answers I did not quite like (and which I inquired about, to be satisfied) or were good answers to begin with.

I FoS'ed you because at that time I did not see the point of a pressure vote. I do not have a good enough case against you yet (of my own, and not taken from the posts of the others who might not trust you or are against you) to vote you, but rest assured that I am building it.

[Tiruin]

McNoble: Not every take at logic is WIFOM. Even by a suspect.

Everyone: Do you have a name said in flavor linked to any real-life person?

Protip: If you want answers from everybody, don't bury the question in the middle of a spoiler addressed at a particular player.

And in answer to your question: Not explicitly, but it was pretty obvious.

You mean pretty obvious by-...? I answered your question. Now answer mine.

NativeForeigner did not post his and you seem to be fine with it. Like knowing only mine would count?

Actually, he was the very first to claim.

Wow, another mistake on the claims. Unbolded and lost in all that text. Great. Still, I want to know more about that wincon NativeForeigner and how that makes him town, we already have a role along the lines of a sacrifice. And the fact we have a hunter-type sounds third-party to me, despite the role name. (link) and the link isn't broken now.

Why do you regret the lynch of Toony anyway

Because I read a couple of old games where Toony flipped town, and upon re-reading D1 I realised that his play looked an awful lot like Town!Toony.

Basing it on meta does not solidify the fact. While even without the role-flip, you can't be truly absolutely sure. If anyone has a power to investigate the dead, then I'd be happy to know his alignment. Toaster still has that one-shot resurrect.

I know I am blocked.

Why did you not mention this in your first D2 post?

(What the Mod says)

I didn't say because I didn't know then. PM'd GlyphGryph asking if I was when McNoble claimed it. He answered it just the way he posted it so I guessed it meant roleblock. Apprehension was written all over it, to summarize.

and why do you fall back on saying I'm a liar on the shiftclaims when you blocked me?

Because I blocked you N2. You lied about your N1 shifts on D2. Which is before my block happened.

Proof on my lie, please? With links if you may?

Also, did you just claim that one-shot name investigate thing just so we can all reveal our names for the scum here?

I did no such thing. I said that I was pretty sure I could catch you in a fakeclaim, because I was pretty sure that the correspondence to real candidates would be as strong as it was in my flavour, and you have given no indication of knowing enough about the Repug candidates to be able to cook up a convincing fakeclaim.

As it turned out, I was wrong and my roleflavour was more obvious than the rest. Oh, well. Win some, lose some.

Why do I get the feeling you're playing around with everyone here based on how this was worded? Also, interesting for the scum as their wincon may be based on inference as it seems that on some roles, the names are linked to powers or issue alignment.

I'm suspicious of his wincon. "Kill the incumbent, doesn't matter on the liberals." to paraphrase what he said. Doesn't that already mean third-party? Unless it's my inexperience with their wincon that's talking.

That's a good point. Doesn't make you any less scummy, though.

Yes, and? It's my point. Flattery will do no good.

PPE (Toaster)
Well, seeing as this is night-talk phase, Book can just PM the Mod right now and blow me out of the race when GlyphGryph is online. Also, NativeForeigner hasn't replied, and his role explicitly states that he is for Conservatism and doesn't mind dropping out but to place a conservative on the place of power, but has a target to attack and I don't think it is any a current candidate based on what we've seen so far (powers and rolenames). Why do you attack me like I'm hiding something? I'm not. Book is the frontrunner here, and I have no powers that affect his being the frontrunner.

Mii What is your say on all this?

PPE II...Mii.
I was referring to the recent day scumhunting.

...rest assured that I am building it.

You say this like I'm requesting it. Why? Other than finding only me scummy, that is.

[GlyphGryph]

I would like to congratulate you all on a fine series of questions to the mod that I have no intent to answer.

*golf clap*

[Toaster]

Tiruin:  You totally failed to answer my question, so let me restate it.

Why do you think Book is frontrunner and not you?  Assume that your theory of no two-time frontrunner is incorrect.

Also, I attack you like I think you're hiding something because I think you're hiding something... namely your alignment as Liberal scum of the earth.


McNoble:  Point- it's not really wine, but the metaphor was just so tempting.


PPE:  Oh, you.

[Tiruin]

Public Scrutiny on that effort? I don't know why I'm not, really. That seems like the most plausible theory I can see. The fact on being NK-immune for two days in a row is a loophole in itself. Though, I've noticed a pattern on the frontrunner benefits:

D1 Frontrunner is immune to NK and one-shot abilities and has a double vote in the preceding day along with a +1 vote for public scrutiny.

D2 Frontrunner is immune to NK, double vote, public scrutiny. Not immune to one-shots, as proven by McNoble, nevertheless, I was blocked and had no chance of issue shifting from night.

D3, unknown as of yet.

And seeing that there are rumors of a VP position, I think being the frontrunner has an effect on that in this Bastard Mafia or that it may have hidden future effects. Speculating ahead, anyway.

Mod: Are we allowed to vote at night? Are we allowed to FoS at night?

[GlyphGryph]

Sure, go ahead. I'm certainly not going to count them or do anything with them, but do whatever you want.

[Urist McUselessNoble]

McNoble: Not every take at logic is WIFOM. Even by a suspect.

I do believe that's precisely what I pointed out to Toaster in my immediately preceding contribution.

However, a statement of the format "Scum!Me would not do [obvious scumslip]" is wine.

Everyone: Do you have a name said in flavor linked to any real-life person?

Protip: If you want answers from everybody, don't bury the question in the middle of a spoiler addressed at a particular player.

And in answer to your question: Not explicitly, but it was pretty obvious.

You mean pretty obvious by-...?

By the fact that he was called the Libertarian Maverick, with a heavy economics focus, the feel of the flavour and the flavour of the role powers (Power of No for the roleblock, Economist for the investigation and Better as a Sidekick for the auto ability that makes the former two permanent if I become someone's running mate).

Why do you regret the lynch of Toony anyway

Because I read a couple of old games where Toony flipped town, and upon re-reading D1 I realised that his play looked an awful lot like Town!Toony.

Basing it on meta does not solidify the fact. While even without the role-flip, you can't be truly absolutely sure.

Didn't say it did, and didn't say I was. Only that I was sure enough that I regret having been on his wagon. The fact that I haven't lynched Mii yet doesn't mean I think she's definitely town, just that I'm not sure enough that she's scum that I want to lynch her.

Toaster still has that one-shot resurrect.

Trading Toaster for Toony?

Yeah, I can see why you'd want to do that. Me, not so much.

and why do you fall back on saying I'm a liar on the shiftclaims when you blocked me?

Because I blocked you N2. You lied about your N1 shifts on D2. Which is before my block happened.

Proof on my lie, please? With links if you may?

We went over all that in agonising detail D2. Dariush, of course, shifted an issue left instead of doing nothing. That means that at least one other person lied about his shift. It wasn't me. And I can prove that, unless you wish to postulate that there is someone who shifted Econ to the right and then fakeclaimed. It would have to be both Native and Mii to explain the magnitude of the discrepancy, which stretches credulity.

That leaves you, Toaster and Book.
But for Toaster to be the one, the scumteam would have had to sink all their three issue shifts into shifting Social to the left. Which is not plausible.
Book is not plausible, since his investigation claims have thus far stood up to scrutiny and his position on the issues has gained credibility by the fact that he gained frontrunner status at the end of D3. If he was trueclaiming on his issue positions, there are no issue shifts he could have lied about that are compatible with the observed final result and do not stretch credulity to imagine.

Which means you lied.

Also, did you just claim that one-shot name investigate thing just so we can all reveal our names for the scum here?

I did no such thing. I said that I was pretty sure I could catch you in a fakeclaim, because I was pretty sure that the correspondence to real candidates would be as strong as it was in my flavour, and you have given no indication of knowing enough about the Repug candidates to be able to cook up a convincing fakeclaim.

As it turned out, I was wrong and my roleflavour was more obvious than the rest. Oh, well. Win some, lose some.

Why do I get the feeling you're playing around with everyone here based on how this was worded?

I don't know. I'm not a telepath. Why don't you tell me, instead of this passive-aggressive bullshit?

Also, interesting for the scum as their wincon may be based on inference as it seems that on some roles, the names are linked to powers or issue alignment.

They are obviously linked to issue alignments. That's the whole Armok-damned point of getting those claims.

You're gonna have to make a case for them being linked to role powers, though, because we've seen a grand total of zero evidence for that assertion, even though you've loved it all game.

PPE: Oh, lookie, the Mod doesn't back up your excuse, Tiruin.

[Bookthras]

Tiruin:

Bookthras: Do me a favor and spam-vote everyone you investigated, to be sure and to clear things up and check who really lies, including the 'dead' to make sure we have no incoming candidates. Then unvote later on and focus it on who you think is scum.

I have no objection to do this, as soon as the day starts. As of D4, I have investigated religious stances of Dariush, McNoble, Tiruin and Native. All coincided with their claims, except Dariush. I can double-vote any of those, except Tiruin (for double-vote to work, they have to be left of super-conservative).

Spoiler: Off topic stuff (click to show/hide)

...only reveals you as provincial... Not a sin onto itself, but don't blame others for it.

First, this. I take this as a personal insult, calling me provincial. That carries a bad gist in itself.

Dude, "provincial" is not an insult, it's a state of being. I'm sorry if you felt offended, causing offence was not my intention.

Now, to clarify: I do not want anyone alluding characteristics to real life people because it gives out a label on them. I'm not saying Conservatism or Liberalism is bad, per se, but that I just didn't like it.

But real life people are relevant, so we will continue to use them, as I did with my Santorum cartoon. No where in my role actually says his name, but as with Ron Paul being the libertarian, it's obvious they are the base for the flavour to anyone familiar with them, and it's relevant for the context of the game. Clearly, GG is familiar with them, and it's his thinking we're trying to unravel.

b) Damn it! "To the left" means "towards liberal"! "To the right" means "towards conservative"! This is again you not knowing shit about politics. It doesn't matter that you read it left to right, it matters what Left and Right mean in the real world of politics. Really, dude, keep up with the premise of the freakin' game!

It's not that I know shit about politics, it's that I don't know much shit about American Politics!

The left-right thing is not about American politics, it's about politics in general. Read the link in the quote above, you'll see it applies everywhere.

Everyone: Do you have a name said in flavor linked to any real-life person?

I don't, and I bet others don't either. But as I said above, it's obvious at least some are modeled on real people, and it's relevant for context. Incidentally, I still suspect your role is based on Stephen Colbert, a Conservative Paragon with a SuperPAC.

There is a Third-Party.
Um, cannot quote the Mod again. First page, OP. Under the "Why is this Mafia" thing. Confirmed.

You can quote the mod's posts on the thread. What you can't do is quote his PMs. But yes, there is at least one 3rd party. I thought that was obvious.

How come you didn't mention this earlier? There was more than one person, including me, that wondered on the existence of the third-party. McNoble provided witness to that in his post below the linked one above.

Because I assumed everyone had read the first post, you know, the one with the rules, where it specified that 3rd parties existed. I didn't mentioned it explicitly, but I did hunt for them, and mentioned that you and Native were my main suspicions for 3rd party.

One thing I think, you cannot win the frontrunner position twice in this Mafia.

Interesting, but entirely baseless speculation. There's been nothing to indicate that the front runner can't repeat, and the mod won't confirm. As far as we know, if the audience had voted Toaster in green, he'd been D2 front runner again, nothing said or done during the game has given any indication that this wouldn't be the case.

If anyone has a power to investigate the dead, then I'd be happy to know his alignment. Toaster still has that one-shot resurrect.

Interestingly, my issue inspection also works on dead people; I asked GG during N1, thinking I might investigate Toony or Andrew to partially make up for the lack of flips. I decided, however, that it was more useful to investigate live people (which proved right, since we found Dariush was scum). I don't think we'd learn much anyway, since it's only an issue inspect, not alignment, and we don't have their stated claims to compare it against. If the game (and I) last long enough that I've inspected everyone else, I'll do that, but not until then, I think.

[Bookthras]

As of D4, I have investigated [...]

Small correction: that should say "as of D3". I got confused because the thread title says N4... but it isn't.

Moderator: this night is actually Night 3; Day 3 just ended, tomorrow is D4.

[GlyphGryph]

Whoops! Fixed.

[NativeForeigner]

Tiruin: You're a liar and you're awful at paraphrasing.

To actually paraphrase: "Liberals aren't my biggest concern, it's the incumbent. I win if a Conservative wins."

If you need me to find the post where I mention all of that, I'll link you.

As for scumpicks, without flips, it's difficult to know if we've been on the right track. There's you, of course, for apparently lying about your issues stances, Dariush if he comes back in the morning, but other than that, I'm not entirely sure. Maybe Mii, but I have nothing to back that up. Also, why does it matter that I'm placing confidence in our inspects? Why ignore something like that?

My day shift: Totally didn't realize I was supposed to PM it in.

PPE: Tiruin: It wasn't bolded because that was before anyone was actually fussing about the names. As for my wincon, you have the link. "my main concern was not of uprooting the Liberal invaders, it was of the incumbent (the existing holder of a political office). Even if we out the Liberals, I had serious doubts about the ability for anyone to actually beat the incumbent." Liberals are still a concern, I'm just worried about the incumbent even if we do root out the Liberals.

[Mii]

I have a few issues going on at home (migraine, family stuff) at the moment, and I am not sure if it will be gone by tomorrow. I'll be on as soon as possible, which might range from later this evening to tomorrow afternoon.

Terribly sorry for the inconvenience!