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[NativeForeigner]

Mii: I think you missed where I said I brought myself into the game. It was planned from the start, but I only got one post a day until I actually announced my candidacy. I also couldn't vote, debate, or shift issues (understandably). I'm not completely discounting the possibility of someone bringing in other players, but I find it highly unlikely. Where was the first player brought in? Why would they bring in a pre-existing player? Don't you think the game would go one for a while if an unknown person had a reusable revive?

I find it much more likely that Dariush had a one-shot revive. Something along the lines of last-ditch campaigning or the sort.

[Bookthras]

What is this "incumbent" of which you speak?

In my PM, my main concern was not of uprooting the Liberal invaders, it was of the incumbent (the existing holder of a political office). Even if we out the Liberals, I had serious doubts about the ability for anyone to actually beat the incumbent. As I said, that's why I've entered the race, even if I don’t get the nomination, I might be able to tweak things to give us a chance of victory. This is why I think the incumbent is a third-party among us.

Interesting. Yeah, I know what the word means, I wanted you to spell out how you knew there was such a role within the game and what it meant. It actually makes sense in the context of a Dark Horse candidate, which is what you claimed as.

For the reasons I listed yesterday, it sounds to me like you are a lyncher on the incumbent or something like that (which may or may not relate to your respective alignments). Is this your win condition? Is it a game-ending win condition?

Also, the incumbent is technically Obama, who is not an arch-con across the board... his positions would be closer to Dariush's (religious liberal, economic moderate), but if you were a lyncher on him, you would have already won. Or maybe you have and we just don't know (damned cryptic bastard Mod). Some interesting possibilities here...

[NativeForeigner]

For the reasons I listed yesterday, it sounds to me like you are a lyncher on the incumbent or something like that (which may or may not relate to your respective alignments). Is this your win condition? Is it a game-ending win condition?

Also, the incumbent is technically Obama, who is not an arch-con across the board... his positions would be closer to Dariush's (religious liberal, economic moderate), but if you were a lyncher on him, you would have already won. Or maybe you have and we just don't know (damned cryptic bastard Mod). Some interesting possibilities here...

I'm not a lyncher, the first thing I asked about was my wincon because it wasn't explicitly stated, I was only labeled as a Conservative. I was informed that I win as long as any Conservative (myself included) wins.

As for Tiruin, I don't really believe his claim about being arch-con across the board. Is there any reason I should?

[Mii]

Mii: I think you missed where I said I brought myself into the game. It was planned from the start, but I only got one post a day until I actually announced my candidacy. I also couldn't vote, debate, or shift issues (understandably). I'm not completely discounting the possibility of someone bringing in other players, but I find it highly unlikely. Where was the first player brought in? Why would they bring in a pre-existing player? Don't you think the game would go one for a while if an unknown person had a reusable revive?

I find it much more likely that Dariush had a one-shot revive. Something along the lines of last-ditch campaigning or the sort.

Ah, alright. Why would they bring in a pre-existing player, you ask? As I said, Dariush might have some influence on the aforementioned third party (who may or may not even exist). A one shot revive and a res from a third party.. they both seem plausible. I hope it is the former, because that would mean we know Dariush's role and we know we can lynch him without any more funny business.

[Bookthras]

As for Tiruin, I don't really believe his claim about being arch-con across the board. Is there any reason I should?

My inspection on him returned "Religious Arch-Conservative." Not that that means he's arch-con across the board, or that he doesn't have a way to fool my inspection, but at least with the tools I had, it checked out.

I tentatively cease to dispute about your win condition for the moment. Still seems fishy, but we seem to have fishier fish to fry.

I guess a question is how sure we are that getting rid of Dariush and Tiruin is the way to victory. If as the day progresses we are sure, then one thing we can do is manipulate the day-change on issues so I'm front runner (so I'm not NK'd), we then lynch one, and I shoot the other in the night.

Which reminds me: Moderator: do we have a time limit on sending you the day-changes on issues? If we haven't by the time the next vote count is posted, we can still send them?

For reference, I am: Social Super-Conservative, Religious Arch-Conservative and Economic Moderate. Issues currently are: Social Conservative, Religious Arch-Conservative, Economic Super-Conservative. If we wanted to do this, we'd need to counter balance the scum's moves, and end up with Social+R, Economics+L+L.

[Urist McUselessNoble]

I guess a question is how sure we are that getting rid of Dariush and Tiruin is the way to victory. If as the day progresses we are sure, then one thing we can do is manipulate the day-change on issues so I'm front runner (so I'm not NK'd), we then lynch one, and I shoot the other in the night.

I have never heard of a vigkill failing to go through just because the vig was offed by the mafia. The only role I've seen do that was the xenozoo.

I'm inclined to think that Tiruin has a power that makes his Issues look that way. But right now I'm more interested in whether anybody roleblocked Dariush N1. Because if somebody did RB Dariush N1, then Dariush and Tiruin are probably the scumteam, and Mii is a liar, probably a third party.

[Dariush]

Oh, I forgot to mention - I can't die if the religious issue is anything below Moderate.

Book, Noble, Toaster.

[Tiruin]

-snip-

I don't know how you see this as scummy, I shifted those at night, when everyone else does shift.

Also, I've noticed that flavor does have a connection to people. On the Second day, you entered with flavor. (The flavor on RL people and it's connection to us in Mafia is described below.)

So from the past known list:

Social: Liberal
Religious: Super-Conservative
Economic: Conservative

Social: Conservative
Religious: Arch-Conservative
Economic: Super-Conservative

Book

[The whole post concerning flavor]

You got that wrong. I was specifically pointing out on the characters, not flavor in general. First of all, whoever said the place Politibastard takes in is America? A well-known place, being a current world superpower, yes. So everyone can relate. Yes. But Mod GlyphGryph never said it is in America.

What I don't like is when you compare what flavor a person has to certain historical figures. To me, that's like casting a bad image on the person in general. On the thing you said about Lazy Scum, you also took that wrong (though I do admit, I should've worded that directly). If you want to suspect people, do it with facts and not using name-images of people to incriminate them. That's just using flavor as an insult.

About Politics, I joined this knowing full well that I'd be delving into the Political world, the fact that you shifted it to America, and specifically that (and mostly everyone else following) changed it. The issues, count in this game. How you used it (aside from issues) does not help in scumhunting and gives a label just from mentioning the popular person's name. Reputation Bias.

Like I said, you are reading too much into that. I never said I want GG to stop his flavor nor how he terms it.

Tl;Dr: You use the reputation of certain people as a weapon, not withstanding the 'This is in America' thing you've set in. Not good, and it's insulting. It doesn't help. (You named specifics.)

Or what, you've run out of reasons on why I'm scummy and resort to flavor as a weapon with your extensive knowledge on me? Notwithstanding Issues?

Wait a minute. McNoble was the one who stated RL people, not you! Why did you answer that question with a completely unrelated question? I specified, and outlined in bold, the people. (The rest above is why I'm against that.)
McNoble: How many times do I have to go over this? First, you believed me on my Arch all over the board. Then shifted because of my poor wordplay against you, when I try to scumhunt on the investigators. Then you say you don't get how I turn up Arch.

Has Honesty a meaning to you? Or did you just waive everything I said as 'insane troll logic'.

Bookie's inspect result on Tiruin confuses me.

Confused me too.

What?
I have no powers that influence issues at all.
Mii: How come you had little action in D2 when conversation was going on?

[Urist McUselessNoble]

You got that wrong. I was specifically pointing out on the characters, not flavor in general. First of all, whoever said the place Politibastard takes in is America? A well-known place, being a current world superpower, yes. So everyone can relate. Yes. But Mod GlyphGryph never said it is in America.

I'm quite certain that it doesn't take place in America, but rather in a fictional country populated by fictional people who have no legally demonstrable connection to America or contemporary American politicians.

The terminology is American through and through, though.

Wait a minute. McNoble was the one who stated RL people, not you!

Yup. Turns out the idea I had didn't work out so well.

Oh, well.

McNoble: How many times do I have to go over this? First, you believed me on my Arch all over the board. Then shifted because of my poor wordplay against you, when I try to scumhunt on the investigators. Then you say you don't get how I turn up Arch.

Nnno.

First I called bullshit on that claim, and bluffed having an investigation result on you that disproved it.

When you didn't crack (very much) under pressure, I backed off, because I didn't have proof and I didn't have a case beyond a gut feeling that your claim was BS. And gut feeling bears the same relationship to case files that anecdotes do to data.

Then you started chainsawing for Dariush and Native (but mostly for Dariush) and attacking me on just plain horribad logic. That gave me a case to match my earlier gut feeling. So I voted you and pegged you as Dariush's scumbuddy, and roleblocked you.

And then Book inspected you and turned up ACon.

Which means I'm confused. Because you dropped scumtells yesterday like they were going out of fashion, but now Book confirms that you didn't lie about the one thing we can objectively confirm.

But if you didn't lie about your issue shift during N1, then it means that either Toaster lied about one of his but not the other, or he didn't shift at all N1, or that both Native and Mii lied and shifted issues to the left, or that Toaster only shifted one issue but claimed to have shifted two, and either Native or Mii lied and shifted an issue to the left.

None of which is remotely plausible.

Hence, colour me confused.

tl;dr: I think you've got a role power that lets you cheat inspects.

Incidentally, Tiruin, what's your role name? Not its powers, just the two sobriquets naming it.

[Tiruin]

Sorry for the WoT. Will be busy in the coming day. Very busy. Though, thinking our extension may be of use now until the votecount.
McNoble: Thanks for pointing that out but That was meant for Book. From what I guessed, he wanted America straight from the first page post. Awaiting his reply (though, this goes far off-topic on how that scumhunt was played. Strange though, how he answered your question.)

About the issues. I've already pointed out the loophole there. Innocents who come late and see the shift that corresponds to their own choice may either abstain from saying so OR claim another one. This is what I meant to Toaster, which he got. (link)

I'm suspicious on that Rolefishing, but we're at Day 3 and with no loss in the candidate number, statement below. Why do you ask for specific names (Or their alias) though? (Yes, I'm seeing that as specific and related to the role).

Dariush. If he did have a personal revive, which I doubt, then why would he spend all day 2 going obvscum and wasting time? Noted, that he didn't log in for a whole day which means half of day 2. Weekend trouble in day 1. Currently, if flavor is to be believed and which I'm taking now, then he may have a new issue alignment due to the...what Mod said. Just because I didn't lay my vote on him doesn't mean I suspect him. Was keeping that hidden to see if he would grab on any strings. But continuing to be vague like now. (The votes were stuck on McNoble and Book for the count, in where I try to get something out from them yesterday.)

I don't think he is going jester on us also, just a guess here because of how he worded his past posts.

Oh, I forgot to mention - I can't die if the religious issue is anything below Moderate.

Book, Noble, Toaster.

I'm even more suspicious by how he words this. I can (guess) the Book and Noble vote, but why Toaster? Give reasons for your votes please. You just revived out of nowhere by cause of your own(doubtful as said above) or someone else that has a resurrect.

But on that note (TL;DR): Mod: Updated Votecount & Timecount please. If Book and Noble still have their old investigate working and nothing changed, then the double vote should still work.. Still at 7 people.

NativeForeigner:

Mii: I think you missed where I said I brought myself into the game...

Why didn't you state ahead then in your first post on day one which looked very out of candidacy?

Spoiler: Explicitly, not stated (click to show/hide)

Because I have amazing privileges and am allowed to post whatever I want here (except for votes, of course), I'm going to take advantage of that.
...
That's all you'll be hearing from me today! Good night and God Bless.

The 'amazing privileges' come to mind and the subtle 'from me today'. But why not be pointedly specific there if you were going to come in.

Just re-stating. As I read that you 'weren't interested in joining' earlier, but that may be moot as it's from the Mod (before game start).

Also, based on flavor and the idea I have. Both stated above. Just forgot to bold your name before the quote in my post, above this one.
Mii: EBWOP. Didn't see the PPE here. When you do get back, I want to know why you posted this:

Dariush: Why are you here?

Everyone: If someone resurrected him, why? And who? What would be the purpose, exactly, for either side? For the scum he would be a good distraction, if anything. To avert the attention a bit from themselves. But for town to bring back obvscum? I don't like that theory,since it doesn't even make sense. If his life is not the product of a town/scum res at all, then can his being here have something to do with his role? Perhaps we have a third party here (but then again, I don't see the point in their bringing him back, either, unless he may have some other pivotal role that said third party knows that we don't)?

-snip-

I never before heard this theory from you, unless I missed something. Feel free to start musing where we can hear.

But yes, it is an interesting concept you propose. Perhaps Native was brought in another way? It was planned from the beginning, it seems, him coming into the game a bit late (judging by his first post in-game before he was able to join the race). I think someone has the ability to bring people into the race, but I do not think Dariush's res(?) and Native's hop into the game are directly correlated.

The theory is above. Flavor is coinciding with how people come and go in game.

Why the blunt vote? If Dariush is going to post again, then I don't think it would make sense, judging by how he posts this game.
Also, in re-reading the thread, I've come across something we've all speculated about but missed entirely.

There is a Third-Party.

Um, cannot quote the Mod again. First page, OP. Under the "Why is this Mafia" thing. Confirmed.
NativeForeigner
Now I get what you mean by the 'early claim'.

Social> +Conservative
Economics > +Conservative

This is what I did as frontrunner during the Night. Made useless by the roleblock.

And for the PM: Religion to the Left. Not letting anyone touch that!

[Tiruin]

Ahh, screwed up that link on Toaster.

Here's the right one. Link.

[Urist McUselessNoble]

About the issues. I've already pointed out the loophole there. Innocents who come late and see the shift that corresponds to their own choice may either abstain from saying so OR claim another one. This is what I meant to Toaster, which he got. (link)

Why would they want to claim something they didn't do? This does not compute. There is no advantage for a townie in lying about what they shifted during the night.

I'm suspicious on that Rolefishing, but we're at Day 3 and with no loss in the candidate number, statement below. Why do you ask for specific names (Or their alias) though? (Yes, I'm seeing that as specific and related to the role).

Because op the names I know and have guessed (mine and Book's), they are so far unrelated to the role power. But I probably have a way to check its veracity.

Dariush. If he did have a personal revive, which I doubt, then why would he spend all day 2 going obvscum and wasting time?

If he didn't have a personal revive, why would he spend all D2 being obvscum and wasting time?

NativeForeigner:
Why didn't you state ahead then in your first post on day one which looked very out of candidacy?

This.

I also want to know that, Native.

There is a Third-Party.

Um, cannot quote the Mod again. First page, OP. Under the "Why is this Mafia" thing. Confirmed.

D'oh!

And for the PM: Religion to the Left. Not letting anyone touch that!

This... does not make sense.

Please explain. Preferably with an explanation that involves how this is consistent with you being ACon on Religion.

[Toaster]

On Incumbent:  Go read the OP again and note the reference to the "islamofascist comminazi president."  I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess someone would notice if the standing president was running for the nomination of the opposite party.  Also, in D1, Iowa was mentioned.


On Dariush:  I know a good way to test his claim!  (Let's lynch him.)  I'm guessing it's a one-shot revive.


Issue shift claims again- let me know if I missed one:

Spoiler: Claimed issue shift, NIGHT (click to show/hide)

Dariush - Was dead at time
Toaster - Derp who forgot
Bookthras - Social to R
UristMcUselessNoble - Econ to R
Mii - Religion to R
Tiruin - Social and Econ to R, but was blocked
NativeForeigner - Social to R

We started:

Social: Liberal
Religious: Super-Conservative
Economic: Conservative


We SHOULD have seen:

Social: Conservative
Religious: Arch-Conservative
Economic: Super-Conservative

...which matches reality.  I guess everyone is telling the truth. (see assumptions from last time re no one who shifted right lying about that)

Spoiler: Claimed issue shift, DAY (click to show/hide)

Dariush - Lying scum
Toaster - No shift yet
Bookthras - No shift yet
UristMcUselessNoble - No shift yet
Mii - No shift yet
Tiruin - Religion to L
NativeForeigner - No shift yet

That'll make, come vote count:

Social: Conservative
Religious: Super-Conservative
Economic: Super-Conservative


Gotta run for now, but wanted to throw this down to start.

[Tiruin]

Wait, what? Doesn't my Religion to the left make it more conservative based on the Arch>Super>Con>Moderate>Liberal scale?

I posted that Religion going left to make it stay Arch-Conservative if anyone does plan to move it to Super.

That, or I have a really wrong direction sense. Whatever I put down, it was Religion going more conservative to stick it to Arch.

[Urist McUselessNoble]

I suppose that might make sense.

Now your name, please?