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[Ottofar]

Yeah, I'm cool with an extención.

[Andrew425]

Andrew: Contribute.

No you.

Stop ignoring me, Andrew.

Ok,

Is there any particular reason why you decided to put a third vote on Tolyk, Andrew?

No real reason, he was the first person I read's name so I wrote his name down and came up with a question. So far he has done little to prove himself townsworthy so my vote has remained on him.

Also I apologise for the state of my last post. It made no sense.

Okay, that last vote is blatant self-preservation.

Why do you think he is voting for you instead of jumping onto me? As of now we are in a three way.

[webadict]

If it was well-based, likely.
If I thought I could get away with it, yes.
If my scumpartner had an idea that would work with it, yes.
If I had figured out your town-izing logic, possibly.
If I was afraid of looking scummy, and that overrode the previous reasons, no.
If I was an evil mastermind and knew my team would follow my plan, then yes.

That question also has cyclic patterns which I won't go down.

But, the whole point is that it's not well-based, that it's makes you look scummy, and that it purposefully puts you in the spotlight. You're looking at this with hindsight bias, so your answer isn't even a yes or no. It's a maybe or maybe not. So, you WANT to say yes, but you know you'd really say no.

WIFOM is one of the poorest excuses I've seen for not trying to think like scum. There's good WIFOM, bad WIFOM, and neutral WIFOM. This is good WIFOM, where you are trying to outguess the scum's decision by finding something they wouldn't do and exploiting it.

[Orangebottle]

Extend.

Ottofar:Who do you think is scum?
Besides TolyK.

But, the whole point is that it's not well-based, that it's makes you look scummy, and that it purposefully puts you in the spotlight. You're looking at this with hindsight bias, so your answer isn't even a yes or no. It's a maybe or maybe not. So, you WANT to say yes, but you know you'd really say no.

This looks like bullshit. It sounds like bullshit. It smells like bullshit. Guess what I think it is?

Why did you even ask the question if you knew exactly what he was going to say?

WIFOM is one of the poorest excuses I've seen for not trying to think like scum. There's good WIFOM, bad WIFOM, and neutral WIFOM. This is good WIFOM, where you are trying to outguess the scum's decision by finding something they wouldn't do and exploiting it.

There is no good wine. You will almost always be wrong when using wine.

[Powder Miner]

Sorry about being gone: I've had homework and have not had time or motivation to play Mafia, instead only the shorter-post RTD and plain Forum Games.

Extend while I read through in a bit.

[webadict]

Extend.

Ottofar:Who do you think is scum?
Besides TolyK.

But, the whole point is that it's not well-based, that it's makes you look scummy, and that it purposefully puts you in the spotlight. You're looking at this with hindsight bias, so your answer isn't even a yes or no. It's a maybe or maybe not. So, you WANT to say yes, but you know you'd really say no.

This looks like bullshit. It sounds like bullshit. It smells like bullshit. Guess what I think it is?

Why did you even ask the question if you knew exactly what he was going to say?

WIFOM is one of the poorest excuses I've seen for not trying to think like scum. There's good WIFOM, bad WIFOM, and neutral WIFOM. This is good WIFOM, where you are trying to outguess the scum's decision by finding something they wouldn't do and exploiting it.

There is no good wine. You will almost always be wrong when using wine.

I want to hit you because you are so dumb.

I asked the question as a form of irony. He was supposed to realize on his own that of course scum wouldn't do that, but he thinks scum will? NO! It's so obvious that I'm sick of having to tell everyone this. You guys act like scum are these unorganized idiot bunch of rednecks, but you know what? They aren't! They act like town! They want to be town! They don't do WIFOM because it's too hard for them to mess up!

I do WIFOM because it's actually really easy to figure out what someone wants. There is good WIFOM, believe it or not. Like, WIFOMing the scum.

[TolyK]

Quick post.
When you said your plan out, I think that nullified the "towninizing" effect of the bandwagon, no? Also, Ottofar has a meta of being scummy, so he could've thought he got away with it. If I were town, I'd stay of bandwagons too, if I didn't have a reason. The question isn't why would scum join, but why would TOWN join?
Anyways, off to school.

[Urist_McArathos]

Andrew

Urist_McArathos

Refuge in audacity followed by shifting suspicion onto someone else.  You are clearly scum, Andrew425.  I demand to know why we shouldn't lynch you on the spot.

Because I am me, and you are you. But Honestly what should I say?

How about answering my accusations?  I accused you of RIA and deflecting, you have NOTHING to say to address that?  Just a random bullshit question that doesn't even fit RVS standards?  Wow, I am shocked you can't be bothered to even hand-wave away my points as overblown or pointless.  "Don't lynch me because I am me, and you are you".  That's terrible.  I'm not unvoting you now because this is a ridiculous attitude to take; there are a thousand better ways to be dismissive of that BS I threw at you.  Nonsense votes and ignoring my accusations entirely (not even asking what the hell I meant, no less) is not one of them.

Urist Imiknorris: As promised, my reason for those flimsy accusations and vote was simple: it was still RVS, and instead of asking a typical RVS question, I found a weak pretense at random (since everyone was just asking and answering RVS at that time) and voted based on it with a attack instead of a random question.  It was to generate discussion and get the target talking.  It worked.  I didn't expect such a ridiculous response from Andrew, though; I fully expected him to call me on my accusations being weak and fire back something.

Webadict:

I don't care much about them voting me. It's the mindless bandwagon part and "because I feel like it".

Answer me this:

If you were scum, would you have joined that bandwagon?

How is this not Prime Grade WIFOM?  Yes, yes, I've read your bit on Good WIFOM, but I still fail to see how jumping on a bandwagon is a reliable town-tell.  Town are out to find scum; how is a baseless or quick vote a "more likely" town move than scum?  You point out the reasons why scum wouldn't, but you're not addressing why town would.  It contributes nothing to hunting, makes you look bad to town, and gives scum an easy mislynch to distance themselves from when it inevitably blows up in everyone's face.  So, considering it's an astoundingly bad move from either side, how are you getting a town read (or less likely scum read) from it?

When did Toaster oh, I see now.
I vote for you, and you reply with "hah he's just trying to preserve himself".
Isn't it smart for a townie with an important role to try to keep living?

Town wins with or without you; being worried about your self-preservation is scummy, and holding town hostage with "I have a power role, don't lynch me bro" is even more scummy.

Extend.  I'm not sure who is scummier, TolyK or Andrew, and I don't want to switch my vote to break the tie without hearing some more from both people.

[webadict]

Webadict:

I don't care much about them voting me. It's the mindless bandwagon part and "because I feel like it".

Answer me this:

If you were scum, would you have joined that bandwagon?

How is this not Prime Grade WIFOM?  Yes, yes, I've read your bit on Good WIFOM, but I still fail to see how jumping on a bandwagon is a reliable town-tell.  Town are out to find scum; how is a baseless or quick vote a "more likely" town move than scum?  You point out the reasons why scum wouldn't, but you're not addressing why town would.  It contributes nothing to hunting, makes you look bad to town, and gives scum an easy mislynch to distance themselves from when it inevitably blows up in everyone's face.  So, considering it's an astoundingly bad move from either side, how are you getting a town read (or less likely scum read) from it?

Because Town doesn't need to look town. They ARE town. If they're in the spotlight, then it doesn't matter. If a cop inspects them because they're being really suspicious, then it's fine. They aren't worried about the same things that scum are. They have different goals, which is why the scum can't go crazy and do random things. They'd be really obvious and would be inspected by cops or watched or what have you. Town doesn't care about PRs and therefore they can do what they want. Scum are more secretive about things, and wouldn't take the chance.

And I'm an expert on WIFOM. I've played more than enough games to know how things work.

[Orangebottle]

Webadict, would you kindly stop wining everybody and get back to playing the game like a regular person would? Thanks.

Seriously, though. Just because you're an expert on wine, it doesn't mean everybody else is.
Also, it does matter if they're in the spotlight, because that wastes a valuable night action. They could also have a vigkill wasted on them, or a roleblock, if they're being suspicious enough. Your whole tale about how townies don't need to worry also applies to a Godfather-type role.

[Jim Groovester]

There has been no reason to unvote TolyK because TolyK has posted no defense that I'm aware of.

So if he started defending himself would that automatically make him town? Or would you still keep your vote on him for some reason?

You've made a big deal about there not being a reason to unvote, but you still haven't given a good reason for why your vote should be there in the first place. And this pretty much goes for all the people who voted TolyK reasonlessly, and it's scummy as fuck no matter how much pretend authoritative bullshit you spew out of your mouth.

So, why have you been fretting over him for so long? Why aren't you attempting to persuade anyone to vote for Andrew? Hmm?

I haven't been fretting over him. Ergo, you are either stupid or a liar.

QUOD ERAT DEMONSTRANDUM, MOTHERFUCKER.

And I will persuade people to vote for Andrew425 by publicly demonstrating the ways in which his posts reveal that he's scum.

No real reason, he was the first person I read's name so I wrote his name down and came up with a question. So far he has done little to prove himself townsworthy so my vote has remained on him.

How about you prove him scumworthy instead.

Come on, let's hear it. Let's hear some good arguments for why TolyK is scum.

Or else you're lazy scum just trying to coast your way through to a mislynch. Really this is some seriously lazy scum play out of you.

Extend, because you don't deserve the chance to make it to the end of the day without being lynched.

[Orangebottle]

PFP:
Extend.
I don't want these posts ignored or lurked away.

[Jack A T]

Webadict: I think I understand your basic idea, but honestly, I would've joined the bandwagon even if I was scum.  I saw the wagon as a harmless joke (after making sure there were no hammers), and as a potential way to get useful information from TolyK.  If I had seen it as much more than a harmless joke, then scum me wouldn't have joined...and neither would town me. 

Unlikely. If you were scum, that would have put you in a spot where you would have made a baseless vote for someone. Explain that away, scumface. It was a joke is not a good excuse.

Webadict: A baseless vote with a question attached during RVS, a period that largely consists of people making baseless votes with questions attached.  What a terrible position for scum to be in.

Also, I would really like to see responses to Webadict's three questions in the middle of his post.

No.

All WUBA wants from me is fuel to be a pompous jackass. I'm not going to give him anything since he can do that well enough on his own. If I thought he actually cared to have those questions answered, I would have answered them already.

What is your read on WUBA DUBA, by the way?

Jim: If you're not going to answer the questions for Webadict, answer them for me.  I tried to get you to answer the questions in the first place because I saw the potential for some serious useful information from them.  I want a better read of you, and a better understanding of your logic.

My read on Webadict?  He's being excessively arrogant, and I'm having trouble reading him.  My gut mildly points towards him being town experimenting with strategies, but I'd really prefer something more solid than my gut.

Is there any particular reason why you decided to put a third vote on Tolyk, Andrew?

No real reason, he was the first person I read's name so I wrote his name down and came up with a question. So far he has done little to prove himself townsworthy so my vote has remained on him.

Andrew: Why put the burden of proof on TolyK?  Who has done much to prove themselves "townsworthy", in your opinion, and how?

Third: I think that Ottofar is scum for getting on the bandwagon, possibly Wuba for protecting him/Jack.

TolyK: Only Ottofar for getting on the bandwagon?  What about the other bandwagoners?

Darvi: Just to be clear, about how bastardy is this game?

Extend.

[Darvi]

Darvi: Just to be clear, about how bastardy is this game?

There are no hidden abilities or role-effects without the respective player being told about it beforehand. Neither are there any shenanigans like the traitor princess in WC2 going on. And I don't lie to you when it's about the serious stuff (unless a different role makes me, e.g. godfather and miller inspects).

Or maybe the above was all just a lie and I am peeing wine all over the place.

The day has been extended to Wedneseday. Extend-votecount has been reset to 0 because counting all those leftover votes is tedious.

[Darvi]

It is also worth noting that I am not fond of public urinating.