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[Mephansteras]

Yea. I know what you mean. It doesn't feel like it has 180k worth of development behind it.

Didn't someone say that the devs only asked 10k for a kickstarter, and the rest was extra?

In which case it's a $10,000 game where they got a nice profit off of pre-orders. I don't really see the problem.

[Rolan7]

Based on nothing, I think they fed some of that profit into improving the game (like stretch goals in other products).  I feel like the music wouldn't have been as great if they'd stuck to the original budget.  Then again, I know nothing about the team.

[MrWiggles]

The 200k was raised to make this game, it was not raised to line their company pocket. Kickstarter itself had a recent blog stating that Kickstarter is not a store.

[Mephansteras]

The 200k was raised to make this game, it was not raised to line their company pocket. Kickstarter itself had a recent blog stating that Kickstarter is not a store.

Does kickstarter have a mechanism to stop a project from receiving further funding after it meets its goal? If not, I don't see what you wanted the developers to do. Delay the release of the game for a year while they tacked on a ton of additional features to justify the amount of money they got?

[GlyphGryph]

Have any of you actually looked at the game files?

There's a whole 'nother game in here. I've never seen ANY of these events, haven't seen half these ships, special weapons... woah. Some of them seem pretty cool too...

Most of them also seem to involve references to specific crew members and such. I don't think I've seen any of those.

Edit: Ooooh, apparently this is all the "test" stuff from the Alpha version or something.

So here's stuff I've discovered that IS actually in the game.
So, interesting stuff: I confirmed that the Zoltan and Engi are, in fact, close allies. And that the Engi aren't machines, they are made OF machines! They are composed of nanites, and can come in a huge variety of shapes - even their ship factories are just big Engi!

Bloop:
   <text>You arrive at a green planet with great plains and rolling waterfalls. It would be of little interest to the Engi nearby.</text>  <!-- JUSTIN TO DO-  MAKE GREEN PLANET-->
   <text>You have arrived near an Engi construction yard.  Most Engi's maintain their bi-pedal appearance out of habit but here you see a number of Engi hives working together to create massive organic machines adept at building ships.  Truly a sight to behold.</text>
   <text>Even though each "individual" Engi is made up of trillions of nano-machines, their culture still revolves around traditional social interactions.  A nearby station seems to be constructed for entertainment of passing Engi travellers.</text>
   <text>You see a number of Engi space stations and fleets nearby.  Despite looking like piles of junk loosely tied together they are actually a model of efficiency.  They just lack a certain aesthetic emphasis in their constructions.</text>
   <text>This system appears quite peaceful.  You're not sure how long it'll last between the combined threats of the Rebels and Mantis.</text>
   <text>There are a number of merchant ships passing through the area despite the threat of Mantis invasion.  No doubt interested in buying the efficient technology of the Engi.</text>
   <text>You see a small Rebel carrier in the distance.  You lay low and try to blend in with the other traffic.  However it's surprising to see a Rebel military ship alone deep in Engi space.</text>
   <text>The Engi seem to have avoided this particular node, along with every other life-form. You keep your eyes peeled for reasons why, but spin up the FTL without event.</text>
   <text>A cluster of Engi satellites in orbit of a nearby planet are the only clue the mechanical species was ever here.   You have other places to be.</text>

There is also a THREAT of a Mantis invasion in Engi territory since the Federation no longer protects them, in violation of their peace pact, but the Mantis don't seem to have actually invaded yet - not officially, at least. A number of individual Mantis raiders and pirates have definitely seized on the opportunity, and the Engi do seem fairly helpless against them. Though the Federation has definitely foughth the Mantis in the past:

   <text>You notice an Engi colony hiding on the other side of a nearby moon. It turns out they're excavating an equipment cache from the Federation-Mantis War, and they suggest it might be used to lure the pursuing rebel fleet.</text>

Here's the results of the Engi-quest, that initially threw off my understanding of the exact nature of the Engi-Mantis relationship:
   <text>"Secret technologies stolen by Mantis.  Implicit connection to Rebels.  Implicit.  Tracked Mantis to hidden Rebel base, uploading coordinates."</text>
   <text>"However, tracked second ship to different base.  Would calculate probability but data insufficient.  Cannot risk obvious Rebel-Engi conflict.  Also, need time to acquire military ships.  Assist in finding technology?"</text>
   <text>You have finally caught up with the ships you've been hunting.  A hangar-sized cargo ship is being escorted by a number of Mantis ships.  As you reconsider the assault, a squadron of Engi ships with pirate emblems jump in and assist you.  You prepare to fight the Mantis but scans indicate they are manned by Rebels!</text>
   <text>The Engi emerge victorious from their battles with only minor losses.  They message you, "Project X-ME56 commissioned by Federation military research division.  Advanced stealth cruiser.  Project finished during rebellion.  Unable to reconnect with Federation military command."</text>
   <text>Ask about the Mantis ships.</text>
   <text>"Likely ploy by Rebels to avoid breaking non-aggression pact with Engi.  97.56 percent likely.  Your mission to assist last Federation fleet, correct?  Coordinates?"</text>

In Summary:

I was completely wrong. It's the REBELS that have a peace treaty with the Engi.

And finally, the last nail in the coffin:
   <text>A nearby Mantis mining operation is clearly using heavy Engi slave labor.  You briefly consider the possibility of emancipating the slaves, but the Mantis presence is too formidable.  You decide to lay low.</text>

I was very very wrong. Ah well.

[Tarran]

Have any of you actually looked at the game files?

Yep. There's quite a lot of interesting stuff there.

Example: Old sector names!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

<!-- Old name lists


      <name>Federation Sector B53</name>
      <name>Federation Sector C21</name>
      <name>Former Republic of Gilead</name>
      
      <name>New Colonies of Qarth</name>
      <name>Varlian DMZ</name>
      <name>The United Talrasi Planets</name>
      <name>Planets of Lodor</name>
      <name>Colonies of Marlith</name>
      <name>The Remskar Colonies</name>
      <name>Tasador 8</name>
      <name>Local Trade Sector 51-A2</name>
      <name>Local Trade Sector 21-F3</name>
      <name>Local Trade Sector 125-S1</name>
      <name>Local Trade Sector 42-MX</name>

      <name>Quarantine Zone 13C</name>
      <name>Quarantine Zone 45A</name>
      <name>Hergarth Protectorate - Pirate Warning!</name>
      <name>The Lawless Zone - Pirate Warning!</name>
      <name>Freedom's End - Pirate Warning!</name>
      <name>Parth Mining Colonies - Pirate Warning!</name>
      
      <name>Rebel Forward Base Omega</name>
      <name>Rebel Forward Base Sigma</name>
      <name>The Liberated Front - Rebel Controlled!</name>
      <name>Or'Arst Protectorate - Rebel Controlled!</name>
      <name>Yarin IV - Rebel Controlled!</name>
      
      <name>Kirrakthas - Mantis Prime</name>
      
      <name>Perasian Nebula</name>
      <name>Erkarth Nebula</name>
      <name>Nebula of Teras</name>
      <name>Yis'ver Nebula</name>
      <name>Ceris Nebula</name>
      <name>Persey Nebula</name>   
      <name>Uncharted Nebula 3.45</name>
      <name>Uncharted Nebula 6.567</name>
      <name>Uncharted Nebula 52.4.2</name>

      <name>Uncharted Sector 42.53</name>
      <name>Uncharted Sector 12.425.2</name>
      <name>Uncharted Sector 51.26</name>
      <name>Uncharted Sector 2.XM.42</name>
      <name>Uncharted Sector Omega 42</name>
      <name>Uncharted Sector 21.56</name>

      <name>Vector 253.1 - Engi Home Sector</name>-->

But I'd highly recommend to everyone to not look in there if you don't want to spoil yourself.

[Sirus]

<text>You arrive at a green planet with great plains and rolling waterfalls. It would be of little interest to the Engi nearby.</text>
<text>You have arrived near an Engi construction yard.  Most Engi's maintain their bi-pedal appearance out of habit but here you see a number of Engi hives working together to create massive organic machines adept at building ships.  Truly a sight to behold.</text>
<text>There are a number of merchant ships passing through the area despite the threat of Mantis invasion.  No doubt interested in buying the efficient technology of the Engi.</text>

I actually have seen these three in game. Just flavor text for empty systems, like those ore refineries.

[GlyphGryph]

Yeah, I'm just adding stuff to that post about various races at this point. All of the race info are actually in the game, just interesting.

Has anyone encountered the "Mantis Entertainment Area" event yet? It's... interesting.

Spoiler: Intesting Mantis Quotes (click to show/hide)

"Ah! Fine prey. Fine prey! We honour you with our most eviscerating arsenal!"

Children on Earth are told terrible tales of the blood red Mantis invasion ships - much like the one bearing down on you now - which once threatened the planet.

"You, prey, must know. Your death, Kaaazthwak's final kill before maturity. Kaaazthwak pay respects." Seems respects in Mantis culture are paid with lasers.

"All local human colonies have been punished for the Federation's transgressions.  Submit to processing.

<text>The Mantis inside considers you a messenger from the god of mercy and demands to join your crew.</text>
<crewMember amount="1" class="mantis"/>   <!-- NOTE - Doesnt work yet -gives human-->

[fenrif]

The 200k was raised to make this game, it was not raised to line their company pocket. Kickstarter itself had a recent blog stating that Kickstarter is not a store.

Does kickstarter have a mechanism to stop a project from receiving further funding after it meets its goal? If not, I don't see what you wanted the developers to do. Delay the release of the game for a year while they tacked on a ton of additional features to justify the amount of money they got?

I think your estimate of a whole extra year being needed to add in extra ships, events or weapons is a bit extravagant. To be honest I don't blame you, figuring out what to do if they get more money than they asked for is the responsability of the people asking for donations, not you or me. They really should've said after they got way more money than needed "here's what we're going to do with all that extra money you gave us to make our game."

Anyway, are there any mods for this? There's no mod section on the official forums and this game is just begging for some extra ships or races or something. The steam community page about it is filled with people asking for DLC (which is completely disheartening).

[Tarran]

Anyway, are there any mods for this? There's no mod section on the official forums and this game is just begging for some extra ships or races or something. The steam community page about it is filled with people asking for DLC (which is completely disheartening).

http://www.ftlgame.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2645

[lemon10]

Kickstarter itself had a recent blog stating that Kickstarter is not a store.

Kickstarter is a store for the vast majority of people, especially in the games section, no matter what the site says.
You are not spending your money out of a real desire to see the project succeed, as much as wanting to get the game when it comes out and feel like you were part of it.
I bet you have A) Never funded a project significantly more then the funding level you chose or B) Haven't chose a comically high pledge level for the primary purpose of giving them money(aka anything significantly over $100). Those are the only two times that its not really functioning as a store (in the games section at least), every other time you are acting as a simple consumer (although with a much higher risk then you would normally have).

The 200k was raised to make this game, it was not raised to line their company pocket. Kickstarter itself had a recent blog stating that Kickstarter is not a store.

Does kickstarter have a mechanism to stop a project from receiving further funding after it meets its goal? If not, I don't see what you wanted the developers to do. Delay the release of the game for a year while they tacked on a ton of additional features to justify the amount of money they got?

I think your estimate of a whole extra year being needed to add in extra ships, events or weapons is a bit extravagant. To be honest I don't blame you, figuring out what to do if they get more money than they asked for is the responsability of the people asking for donations, not you or me. They really should've said after they got way more money than needed "here's what we're going to do with all that extra money you gave us to make our game."

Anyway, are there any mods for this? There's no mod section on the official forums and this game is just begging for some extra ships or races or something. The steam community page about it is filled with people asking for DLC (which is completely disheartening).

Them getting $200,000 doesn't mean that they have any larger a responsibility then if they got the money they initially asked for.
If you plan to make a coloring book, and ask for $5000, and get $500,000 does that mean that you have to have dozens of stretch goals and tons of different pledge levels to justify the massive demand?
No, of course not, its good business sense to, but by no means required.

I do totally agree that they should add better modding support and a expansion pack though.

[fenrif]

Anyway, are there any mods for this? There's no mod section on the official forums and this game is just begging for some extra ships or races or something. The steam community page about it is filled with people asking for DLC (which is completely disheartening).

http://www.ftlgame.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2645

Ah my bad, I'm too used to forums having their own modding sections I guess.

Kickstarter is a store for the vast majority of people, especially in the games section, no matter what the site says.
You are not spending your money out of a real desire to see the project succeed, as much as wanting to get the game when it comes out and feel like you were part of it.
I bet you have A) Never funded a project significantly more then the funding level you chose or B) Haven't chose a comically high pledge level for the primary purpose of giving them money(aka anything significantly over $100). Those are the only two times that its not really functioning as a store (in the games section at least), every other time you are acting as a simple consumer (although with a much higher risk then you would normally have).

Them getting $200,000 doesn't mean that they have any larger a responsibility then if they got the money they initially asked for.
If you plan to make a coloring book, and ask for $5000, and get $500,000 does that mean that you have to have dozens of stretch goals and tons of different pledge levels to justify the massive demand?
No, of course not, its good business sense to, but by no means required.

I do totally agree that they should add better modding support and a expansion pack though.

I never said it was required. My point is that it's morally dubious not to.

There's a big difference between a store and kickstarter. It's subtle, but it's pretty much the whole reason the site exists. You're giving people money so they can produce something. Not giving them money for something they've allready produced. The fact that you're also often getting your own copy of the end result is kind of beside the point. It's basically all about trust. You can say you don't use the site that way, and throw out completely unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence, but the site isn't a store. It's not a subjective arguement, it's a matter of fact.

A purchase made in a store is a very rigidly defined transaction. You give someone a set amount of money, they (generally) give you an agreed upon allready-existing product. There aren't many stores where you give someone whatever money you feel like, and they in turn kind of promise to make something you might like at some point in the future. And that doesn't sound like a terribly worthwhile way to spend your money. That's why kickstarter isn't a store.

Them getting $190,500 more than they asked for, or whatever the figure was, does in fact mean they have a larger responsability. They have exactly 190500 dollars more responsability. Because that many more people have given them money to fund that specific project.

Honestly I only just learned about how much money this game got from kickstarter after coming in this thread an hour or so ago, and it's right up there with the Star Command kickstarter(s) as a prime example of why Kickstarter needs to police it's site a bit more.

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

   Umm, they promised nothing more beyond what they had. Any money put into the kickstarter after it was funded was thrown at them. If they had made stretch goals or what have you and did not fulfill them that would be a problem but even if Kickstarter did police their site this would not be anything that they could do something about. FTL delivered what they promised. The fact of the matter is that after they funded their project people told them to shut up and take their money. Being sensible people they did so.

   Also as a side note Kickstarter can not police their site better or else their site either becomes illegal or they close down because of the shear impossibility of it.

[Sergius]

Sure, Kickstarter is not a store.

In that case, any money that exceeds the limit and any stretch goals can be considered a reward, or an incentive, or a donation.

Nothing "morally dubious" about that. Also, the people overfunding are getting their "gifts" or whatever it is they expected in exchange of a successful project. There's no difference if it was $100k worth of T-Shirts or "$100k worth" of autographs or downloads.

It's also not an investment. Each single person contributed what they individually contributed, nothing more, nothing less. There's no single person who can ask for his $190,000 back.

KickStarter does seem to be listening to the complaints, and reacting tho (although, apparently in the worst possible way)... for example, they're adding rules that make projects harder to succeed, such as prohibiting posting concept renders, because some people couldn't tell between concept art and the finished game and got butthurt about it. So, careful what you wish for.

[Tarran]

such as prohibiting posting concept renders, because some people couldn't tell between concept art and the finished game and got butthurt about it.

@Matthew The new guideline prohibiting renderings applies only to projects categorized as Product Design or Hardware. Other categories, including Games, are not affected.

http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store (second comment)