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[Neonivek]

Somehow I suspect the Shivs still won't be useful in this expansion.

They are AMAZING in the early game (or if you get early game enemies) because their armor lets them outright charge the enemy.

Did you EVER bother to upgrade Shivs? I could see your argument if you're just using the basic minigun Shiv the whole time, but hover plasma Shivs are both highly formidable and expendable.

Seriously. Those things are nasty! And, in fact, an all-SHIV squad is a perfectly viable strategy even late game.

Fully upgraded. The problem is that they get eaten alive and don't have the ability my other units have.

I COULD have a SHIV that will die in a turn against a team of enemies and MAY kill one... Or I could use my Sniper who can kill nearly all of them and is safe, a assault who can kill one safely, a Heavy who can hit all of them and weaken them up, or a support who can save my team for a turn.

The inability to take cover is suicidal and only having a ordinary attack without anything to make up for it, will make you fall behind great troops. As well their HP totals are amazing until later where you can actually match it.

[Ibid Straydrink]

Did you EVER bother to upgrade Shivs? I could see your argument if you're just using the basic minigun Shiv the whole time, but hover plasma Shivs are both highly formidable and expendable.

Indeed. On those missions where the game throws squadrons of mutons and heavy floaters at you, there's nothing quite like having a Plasma Hover Shiv to take point, rushing over enemy lines to divert (and often absorb) fire, put suppression on bogies that are in position to attack without triggering reaction shots, and even flank those berserkers your entire team is focusing on.

[Neonivek]

I forgot that a Flying Shiv has magical cover from hovering...

I never use flying mechanics, mostly because I never needed it and felt it was a waste when the alternate armors were much better then "moving with cover"

Still I have to compare the Shiv to a soldier and it still has a cut off. They are "Viable" but that is all I will say about them.

[Ibid Straydrink]

Somehow I suspect the Shivs still won't be useful in this expansion.

They are AMAZING in the early game (or if you get early game enemies) because their armor lets them outright charge the enemy.

Did you EVER bother to upgrade Shivs? I could see your argument if you're just using the basic minigun Shiv the whole time, but hover plasma Shivs are both highly formidable and expendable.

Seriously. Those things are nasty! And, in fact, an all-SHIV squad is a perfectly viable strategy even late game.

Fully upgraded. The problem is that they get eaten alive and don't have the ability my other units have.

I COULD have a SHIV that will die in a turn against a team of enemies and MAY kill one... Or I could use my Sniper who can kill nearly all of them and is safe, a assault who can kill one safely, a Heavy who can hit all of them and weaken them up, or a support who can save my team for a turn.

The inability to take cover is suicidal and only having a ordinary attack without anything to make up for it, will make you fall behind great troops. As well their HP totals are amazing until later where you can actually match it.

Interesting, as I find that my Shivs typically "evade" about 50-60% of standard ranged attacks made against them...

I forgot that a Flying Shiv has magical cover from hovering...

I never use flying mechanics, mostly because I never needed it and felt it was a waste when the alternate armors were much better then "moving with cover"

Still I have to compare the Shiv to a soldier and it still has a cut off. They are "Viable" but that is all I will say about them.

I personally found it highly useful, since, I swear, EVERY OTHER UFO recon mission slapped me in the Nevada desert with a bunch of half-cover debris and a single joshua tree my units couldn't even fire from behind.

Also, taking to the sky is quite handy for avoiding grenades and seizing the highground when you have half a dozen chrysalids and a dozen mambozombos crawling around. :p

[WillowLuman]

Plus, only Titan armor can really match the HP Shivs have. And because of their speed and flight, hover SHIV's make good spotters for your snipers.

[Mephansteras]

They're also immune to being mind-controlled, which makes them quite handy against Etherials.

Are they god-like? No. But they're quite powerful and better than anything but a high level soldier. And if you're playing Classic or Impossible Iron Man, that can really save you, since you're not all that likely to be able to field a full squad of Colonels every fight.

[Neonivek]

Interesting, as I find that my Shivs typically "evade" about 50-60% of standard ranged attacks made against them

Freeky since a Shiv cannot take cover and most of the time a character out of cover will soak up attacks like they were 10 feet tall.

But they're quite powerful and better than anything but a high level soldier

Yeah that is basically what they are. Way better to have a SHIV then to take in rookies. They are equal to a soldier three ranks from the top.

They're also immune to being mind-controlled, which makes them quite handy against Etherials

I oddly enough never had an issue with them. Mind control was potent but the lost turn meant I always could pull through. (even once where I had a team mate shooting at me for three turns and didn't suffer a single hit... Hurray for mind controlled snipers being brain dead!)

The worst time they can get you is if they actually move outside a UFO, but they almost never do that, deciding to stay at the heart well protected. Kind of funny in a way, their best role is one they are unwilling to serve.

[Tarran]

Oh, oh man, you know, I just had a great start to a new XCOM game.

First mission, one soldier takes 2 points of damage. She and 2 others (who are unharmed) instantly panic. Fortunately, they all shoot at the alien that made them panic and kill it. They all have 39 or less will, while the only sane one has 59, hahah.

[Ibid Straydrink]

Interesting, as I find that my Shivs typically "evade" about 50-60% of standard ranged attacks made against them

Freeky since a Shiv cannot take cover and most of the time a character out of cover will soak up attacks like they were 10 feet tall.

But they're quite powerful and better than anything but a high level soldier

I think the idea is that their bulwark of heavy armor absorbs and dissipates enemy fire (the defense stat), but rather than coding and designing graphics for a separate effect, it's just counted as a "miss."

The real irony is that those same weapons the Shiv is so resistant to are fully capable of evaporating a ship hull made of the same alloys. I reckon it would make sense if the alloys in the Shiv have been condensed/redesigned/reconfigured or such, but now I'm just speculating. 

[GlyphGryph]

It's the angles. Shivs are built to deflect shots - only solid hits do any notable damage at all.

[Neonivek]

It's the angles. Shivs are built to deflect shots - only solid hits do any notable damage at all.

That would make TOTAL sense if the game's weaponry doesn't laugh at the concept.

[Muz]

The Volunteer gets mind-controlled all the bloody time whenever I play the final mission. >.>

Heh, never happened to me. Since I play Ironman (not knowing if losing the game means I have to replay the whole bloody game all over again), I put the Volunteer way back, next to the Sniper.

My Sniper just really badly critical-ed the Ethereal, my Support finished off the Ethereal easily. I'm surprised any of you guys actually got the Volunteer close enough to be mind controlled.

[Neonivek]

Not to mention, I tend to win the "Last part" within 1-2 turns. If not the very first turn, then the one afterwards.

The game sort of supports the need to strike hard as the biggest risk in the game is to simply leave an alien alive.

And Yet the AI seems to think that Mind Control is a big deal when it is trying to solo everyone else...

[Muz]

I'm still in the mood to play a tactical game now that I've won XCOM and am waiting for the expansion to come out. But don't feel like doing another alien based one, so Xenonauts & UFO is off. Anyone have any suggestions? Probably gonna load up Fallout Tactics and go for a melee challenge or something.

[Parsely]

I'm still in the mood to play a tactical game now that I've won XCOM and am waiting for the expansion to come out. But don't feel like doing another alien based one, so Xenonauts & UFO is off. Anyone have any suggestions? Probably gonna load up Fallout Tactics and go for a melee challenge or something.

Wesnoth is good, and free (plus it has multiplayer but the learning curve is steep). Any Fire Emblem or Advance Wars game, Onimusha Tactics, Final Fantasy Tactics, Shining Soul, Tactics Ogre.. Yeah there's not been much in the way of tactical games for the past decade or so.