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[Johnfalcon99977]

Happy to take Milan, Muscovy, or Denmark if you deside to switch us around, although I would like to rebuild the Byzantine Empire.

Edit: I at least hold the happy ideal that as long as I have a grand navy of one cog, I cannot be completely wiped out by TIM. Unless they go through the Golden Horde to get me. Then I'm fucked.

[Dutchling]

You will indeed not be wiped out by TIM.

Watch out for MUG though.

[Twiggie]

So? If you attacked France, what's the worst thing that can happen? Austria DoW's and takes a province? An uncored, wrong culture unlawful Imperial territory that it may or may not even have access to? Why would it want to do that when it could be expanding into Italy with those delicious universities? Poland and Denmark have other problems but if they're human-led they should be perfectly content to continue a phony war with you. And this is assuming all of them are player-run. An AI-led Denmark will land a huge stack in a province and try to siege it while the stack attritions away. Just wipe it out a few months later. Poland wouldn't ask for military access, you'd never see its armies before it white peaces out. So that just leaves Austria. An AI Austria should be pretty easy to bribe off with 25 ducats at the first hint of trouble. Heck, just do the usual way to kill AI stacks. Let the siege stack attrition away, move your armies away so it assaults, then go in for the kill. Now if they're the emperor... you may have trouble. You're probably better off just gobbling up the Low Countries to gain strength.

Or the more fun alternative way to end the alliance, actually duke it out. Or even worse, ally with the other side and gang up on France. Sure it sucks for France, but then he shouldn't of gone over the infamy limit. Or try to convince Poland to join up with you and flank Austria. Maybe it's just me, but every time I play a strategy game of any sort online, there's always one chucklefuck willing to backstab his alliance for the stupidest of reasons.

uh, what? k bro.

[Heron TSG]

@Mr.Person - France/Castille/Burgundy were pretty equal, but all huge. If any one of us had betrayed the others, we would have crushed them and still have been as powerful as the other bloc. Anyway, that ship has sailed.

So, nomads aren't automatically at war with nomads, right? I seem to recall something about huge penalties when fighting one another. Just another reason for GH/TIM to team up, amirite?

*nudge nudge wink wink*

[Twiggie]

You don't get penalties per se, you just get the normal war penalties, which you don't get when you're at war with non-hordes. no peace WE reduction, for one.

And no, nomads dont fight nomads unless you specifically declare war, afaik

[Dutchling]

Nomads have normal relationships with each other. They can ally, royal marriage, etc. I'm not sure if they can form a PU though. They actually get a 'our horde is bigger than theirs' casus beli against other hordes so there are really no penalties AFAIK.

Also, the main reason for us to team up is the base tax of Sarai, your capital province.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Tax is 1 because Timur sacked the city in 1395

[Digital Hellhound]

Hordes can't PU anymore in 5.1, that was one of the things listed in the changelog.

[Twiggie]

First post has been updated with likely nations.

This list is AS OF RIGHT NOW.

Hopefully we will get an:

ENGLAND player, letting supercharazad take VEN
CASTILLE/AUSTRIA player, letting Dutchling take TIM or letting Lorgath take CAS if he prefers.

more players than this are fine, France is still open if somebody wants to play next to me.

In summary:
Good Nations still open/flexible (in order of requirement):
ENG
CAS
POL/LTU/NOV/MUS (basically another player to help fight off the GH)
AUS
POR (depending on Lorgath)
BOH
FRA (if you want to play next to a human BUR) actually I'd rather there wasn't a France.

as with everyone else, please give 3 choices so that I can populate Europe as evenly as possible

EDIT: I changed rule 4 from peacing: You may now annex anybody you are at war with (and can). Surrenders may be ignored if you wish to annex somebody. If you take all their land and find you cannot annex after ignoring a surrender you will be forced to WP out.

Smaller nations are still protected by the 'no wars just for the lulz' rule, and will have to seek the protection of larger nations - ask other people to guarantee you etc. Human-on-human guarantees can last all game, however you may only guarantee humans that are <50% of your size or forcelimit.

[Digital Hellhound]

I should probably do a test game of TO now, but what the hell. No Eastern Europe players near me, but I am a bit worried about the GH. With player control, it'll be at the Baltic Sea in no time.

[Twiggie]

I should probably do a test game of TO now, but what the hell. No Eastern Europe players near me, but I am a bit worried about the GH. With player control, it'll be at the Baltic Sea in no time.

Hm. I wasn't going to put anyone in POL/LTU, but you raise a good point. I'll add novogorod/poland to the list of needed players.

[Supercharazad]

Why did I become England? I chose Venice :/
I'd REALLY rather not be England.

[Twiggie]

Oh and as a side note feel free to ask the majors for war subsidies if you're having a hard time fighting the hordes. I know I'd be happy to, I'm sure Castille and England both will as well if you ask nicely

[Heron TSG]

I don't think you'll need to nerf the GH any. I've never played a horde before, I'll have a hell of a time keeping any sort of country together, much less a rapidly expanding one.

[Dutchling]

I don't think you'll need to nerf the GH any. I've never played a horde before, I'll have a hell of a time keeping any sort of country together, much less a rapidly expanding one.

tip: keep a good anti rebel force, especially at your shaman provinces. You don't want shamanism to spread through all your eastern provinces just because the zealots can auto-convert anything without a fort and you didn't have an army nearby.

And yes, I had this happen to me. Golden Horde seems to be the harder of the two large hordes as they have very dangerous enemies without the rich Persian lands or the prospect to  get the (very easy to get) rich Indian lands as well.

[Heron TSG]

But hey, I could expand into some rich and profitable lands like... Siberia, right? Scandinavia if I'm lucky?