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[SeriousConcentrate]

Pasha took a seat as well, placing his hands on the table. "Good to see you, Nikephoros," he said, inclining his head. Now that he was here, they could get things hashed out and move forward. "I have no objections to you retaining the title of Marshal. In fact I'll offer you my support should anyone wish to vote on it." Vandire had brought up another good point: the lack of a monarch. Pasha looked at the throne and snorted in disgust. "Although I must disagree with you about not having a monarch for 'awhile.' I say we should never have one; Laythe is a good example of what one person with too much power can do. A council is much better. If one of us wanted to do something stupid, there would be at least some way of overruling them peacefully."

He made an off-hand gesture. "I've worked for other tyrants as well and frankly speaking I'm just not a fan of centering all authority on one person. It may take some time, but I believe the people of Ligoria would get used to, and even prefer, a council." He thought for a moment. "Although that does bring about the problem of what we'll do when we're all too old to care about ruling anymore. Would we pick our own successors?" Pasha looked towards Nikephoros to see what he thought about his proposal, although if anyone else wanted to weigh in that would be fine too.

[NUKE9.13]

Hugo takes a seat as well, looking quite pleased to be involved in the shaping of a country's destiny.

"I agree with mister Dolgorouki. A monarch is an outdated concept. We don't have one in the Lowlands, and we seemed to do alright. Besides, any monarch who took the throne now would have all the legitimacy of a Udanese shipwright."

"Simply calling things a council is so crass, though. The people expect a certain flair about their leadership- a flair which a bunch of people sitting around an old table does not have. There must be titles, and a legitimization of power, or the people will not stand for it."

"I suggest that we retain this council for the next few months, but use that time to develop a more stable and permanent form of... collective rule, shall we say. We should look at how the other cities in the Storm Coast handle their... lack of a monarch, see how their forms of government benefit or cripple them, and then, by the light of their stars plot the best course for the future of Ligoria."

His piece spoken, Hugo takes out his sketchbook and starts to draw. First meeting of the Council of 416? That should make an excellent painting.

[Shootandrun]

Kathos welcomed Pasha warmly when he arrived. It was about time to meet him, many months after his arrival in Ligoria.

"Pleased to meet you, Pasha."

He was about to say more, but Hugo arrived, and this time Kathos was polite, but nothing else. While he had worked with Hugo against Laythe - hell, it had been his idea to find allies in the gangs - he still had a slight problem with the fact that this man was a criminal - and that he was soon going to be the greatest criminal of the city.

"Welcome, Hugo. The council will begin soon."

When Tala arrived, they began to chatter for a while - Kathos did not care much about these formalities. He accepted happily to go to the marriage, and he was surprised when Pasha said that he had heard about him, and his tactics. That man had indeed travelled alot, for Kathos had never fought a war within a thousand miles of Ligoria. Thankfully, Nikephoros arrived and changed the topic of conversation. He listened patiently to Pasha and Hugo, and for the most part he agreed with them.

"I think it is obvious that we should not choose another monarch for the Kingdom. A ruling council is a better idea, although we will loose a part of our autonomy. We will also need to change some of our titles - three barons and a marshal ruling Ligoria, that won't do. Nikephoros will remain head of the army, but we need to find a new title for me, Tala and Pasha."

He turned towards Hugo.

"This leads me to another point. For obvious reasons, you cannot be part of the council - not officially, at least. If anyone was to discover your real identity, our credibility would be gone forever. I suggest that we give you a place in the Government and that we only summon you here when we are dealing with extremely important matters related to Talama."

[Iituem]

Juan had heard rumours that there was trouble in the Double Noughts, whilst the Fists seemed pretty well organised.  Of course, he did have a tendency for being contrary.

Juan attempts to seek out the Double Noughts to offer his services as an enforcer/dogsbody.

[Ardas]

Nikephoros listened intently and it occured to him that everyone wanted a joint rule. Republicanism? Nobles willing to give up titles? It felt as if Laythe's mandess remained in the throne room, despite her sudden leave.

"I don't know about not having a monarch, but I believe that we need to be careful not to turn the people against us. We may make happy arrangements for ourselves rithgt now, but the issue of legitimacy remains, so it becomes vital that Ligoria retains its nobility.I don't want riots a year on from now and people cheering when Laythe returns to hang us like a bunch of rebellious commoners. A Noble Republic is not a bad idea, if the rule is shared among the nobility, who retain the legitimacy as the rightful lords of the land. We could even have a figurehead king, who would lend his legitimacy to the government and appease the public.

But there is a more pressing concern that has to be solved right now. Laythe won't rest until she is back. It feels like a bad joke at my expense, but I am forced to advocate use of assasins to eliminate her and to give us the peace of mind. We might have royalists among the populace, and they won't rest until Laythe is restored or eliminated."

[Shootandrun]

"For now, we do not have enough ressources to send assassins after Laythe. Our remaining money should be used to repair the damage she caused. Until them, we should send messengers in every nearby nation, and make it clear that anyone bringing Laythe Ralia to Ligoria alive will have a great reward... Five ducats should be good to make sure that there are plenty of assassins on her back. Our messengers should also spread stories of her madness and her cruelty; that way, she will not have many followers. I do not believe that there are many royalists still in the populace... Thousands died yesterday because of Laythe."

"As for our exact position in the court... I suggest not exactly a ruling council, but something similar. Nikephoros and I organized this coup, and while I think that Hugo's help should be rewarded and that Tala and Pasha's support is essential for the Kingdom, I am not willing to share the power between five persons, not matter how worthy they are. I believe that it would be appropriate that Nikephoros and I would rule the Kingdom, by dividing the power in two. Nikephoros would be responsible of the army and the justice, while I would deal with the economy and the political matters of the Kingdom."

"However, that does not mean that the others should not have their place in the Kingdom. We could create a Council that would advise us and hold some power. Tala and Pasha could represent the nobility - what remains of it - and Hugo the commoners in the council. It will appease the people to know that they have a voice High in the spheres of power. The Kingdom's power would be divided between us, and the Council will advise us. It is clear that alot of things from Laythe's rule will have to change - for exemple, I wish to give more power to the nobles."

[SeriousConcentrate]

"There isn't really anyone to put on the throne, though..." Nikephoros brought up the idea of assassinating Laythe. "I can't say I'm against the idea. Anyone who wants her back in power is a damn fool. Her actions from the time I arrived in Ligoria, let alone incidents prior to my arrival that I've heard about, prove she's unable and unworthy to carry any sort of responsibility. I would advocate capturing her and executing her in public. The families of the people she slaughtered as she looted and fled the kingdom, and the families of the men who died in Mileth because she insisted Ligoria march alone to take all the glory, would probably appreciate seeing justice done."

Pasha sighed and tapped his fingers on the table momentarily. "I'll be blunt here. My main concern, above any other, is securing a stable future for myself and my bride to be. So I'm against any situation that places too much power or authority on any one person, even if that person were me." The last thing he needed was to be the 'successor' to Laythe. If things turned out well, any enemies of Ligoria would be gunning for him. If things went bad, it would be his head the people wanted. No, a council, where he retained some measure of anonymity, was for the best. "I have no substantial objections to Kathos's proposal."

[Dwarmin]

Tala nodded along with Pashas words.

"Nor do I have any objections to that plan. Nikephoros and Kathos took the risk when no one else would, they are prepared to rule

I believe the two of them sharing power will keep both honest-while five would only lead to endless squabbles. Neither do I wish such power for myself, unless it was thrust upon me in dire circumstance. I only ask that be allowed to help Ligoria-as the Queen denied me any position whatsoever, this is a marked improvement.

As for the Queen, she has the money, but no income. Unless she opts to gamble everything and attack us with quickly mustered forces before her funds run out, she will have to move far away to avoid our justice and slowly rebuild her power. That wil take time...

We must remain vigilant-for she will no doubt view us all as conspirators, even those who didn't take a direct part in the overthrow."

[NUKE9.13]

"Hey now. Two people in power is not much better than one person in power, even if they have reasonable people advising them. What happens in the unfortunate situation that you decide your power would be best used for... laythe-like purposes? I agree that there is wisdom in having power ready to be wielded without having to argue about it. I wouldn't ask that we make some sort of... democracy out of Ligoria"-Hugo sneered as he spoke the word-"But if it should come to pass- which of course it will not- that either of you needs to be removed from power, there should be a council, made of wise men who know about power, who have the capacity to do so."

"I agree with giving Vandire and Thunderblade the reins for now, but I must suggest that the remaining members of the council- and any other community leaders in the country- be given the right to discuss policy, and, should the need arise, expel either of the... regents from office."

[Dwarmin]

Tala yawned, patting her mouth dramatically, and spoke again.

"Then, can we be agreed-on a Noble Council in an advisory role, Noble council right of petition...and the emergency right of removal in the most dire circumstance?

...I suppose we should make it legitimate, put it down in writing. I've heard of these things in other states, they are fairly popular there if one abides by the promises they make.

No one is asking for a Democracy, but perhaps we can assure the people of these certain rights they have under our regime, and that their rulers will always serve Ligoria instead of personal interests."

[Shootandrun]

Kathos frowned at Hugo and Tala's suggestion.

"I have spent most of my life travelling, Hugo. A few times, I tried to settle down in cities far away from here, to place my wars behind me and finally have some peace. In one of these cities, a Duke held the power. He was 'assisted' by a council, a council that could get rid of him if they voted against his actions. Eventually, I got a place in this council. I think I was the only man with military experience, the others being either merchants or lesser nobles."

"One day, the Duke announced to the council that a case of Black Death had been seen in the city. He also announced that that part of the city was going to be placed under quarantine, and if things got worse that the whole city would close its gates. He made radical choices, including the fact that anyone spotted trying to break out of the quarantine zone would be shot and killed. The council refused. The merchants knew that this could be the end of their business, and the nobles saw a good opportunity to grab some power. The Duke insisted that this was absolutely necessary, and a merchant started a vote to get rid of him. Nine members of the council agreed with the merchant, and I was the only one to be on the Duke's side. They got rid of me too for good measure."

Kathos spoke softly all along.

"There were twelve thousand deaths in the city, and nearly ten thousands in the surrounding cities. Three of the nine remaining members of the council died from the plague. The Duke abandoned the city and returned to his lands, far away from the places where the Black Death caused a disaster."

He smiled. It was a very small smile.

"Sometimes, Hugo, men in power have to take very hard decisions for their people. Sometimes, these decisions are not accepted until it is too late. This is an extreme exemple, but it could happen. A leader needs to act for the good of the Kingdom, not the good of a ruling council. If we give too much power to the council, we will soon be manipulated by the ambitions of men who care more about their position than the good of the Kingdom."

[Ardas]

Nikephoros listened to all sides and opinions. All parties involved tried to ensure that something like Laythe will never happen again. But squabbling was sure to erupt if order was not established. Kathos was right, but so were the others.
It was time to speak up.

"I believe that both sides are right, but compromise will paralyse the country. And we don't need that. But I will say one thing.
If not for the risk that Kathos and I took, would we be sitting here? No. Was there anyone in the kingdom who could have pulled this off except for me and Kathos? No. This may sound suspicious to you, but I see nothing that would stand in the way of making my and Kathos' position permamanet. We were willing to take the risk and put our heads on the line for the sake of the nation. If I were forced to do another revolution, even if alone, I would do so gladly. My life or personal wealth have no meaning if not used in service of my fatherland.

If this is a question of trust, then I am deeply dissapointed that you question my motives. So far I have gained no land or money because of these events, and by now I only work to ensure that we all have some say in this kingdom. Kathos is a trustworthy man and I believe that with your help we can stay honest. We are all sane in here after all."
He chuckled slightly.

[Dwarmin]

Tala was not quite moved.

"It's not a matter of trust, Nikephoros-the rules we set here today will last long after we've all gone to dust, and our heirs will have to solve what we do not. It's the principal of the matter. No matter how friendly we are all now, in the light of a good morning and eve of victory, things may change with time...

For fairness sake, lets say the twin rulers can together, decide to temporarily suspend any and all council rights in times of emergency? Let us agree to at least that, before any rights are given. You will, in the end, have the power to wield. No one else.

It is a small sacrifice on your part, but one I think benefits all.

[NUKE9.13]

"Thunderblade, I would not deny you the power to make hard decisions. I can imagine that there may be decisions that seem counter-productive at first, but in time prove useful. If the council could dispose of you just like that, that would be terrible.
And Vandire, I would not deny you who have fought so hard the honour of ruling the nation you have freed. And I have no doubts that you intend to rule honourably and fairly. But who can say what the future brings? Will you be as full of zeal in five years? Ten years? Perhaps you shall. Perhaps too much- perhaps you will be executing everyone you even suspect of sympathising with Laythe. Who can tell what the future holds, but for the Bright One himself? And as Alanis says, what of your successors?"

"Let the council have the power to remove you from office. But let that power require a half a year's notice- a half a year during which you can attempt to convince the council to change their minds. That way, you have time to deal with emergencies- but you, or your successors- are still kept honest"

[SeriousConcentrate]

Pasha, having thought matters over, elected to speak now. "I think Tala and Hugo are right. While we have no reason to remove the pair of you and hopefully never will, that right should be placed down now, for future generations to use if it becomes necessary. Ligoria will, hopefully, outlast all of us here today, and we must set precedents here and now." He folded his hand on the table. "And speaking of that, again I ask: how will a successor be decided? By blood? Vote of the noble council? Choice of the two in power?"