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[kaijyuu]

Stepping up and stopping your colleagues would be putting your own job on the line. Remember, snitching is a mark of shame in our society for some reason. Fear allows this to continue.


It's still a couple bad apples, but it's also still a profession that attracts people who want to live out fantasies of being Rambo. There's a disproportionate number of bad apples, and trying to stop them from the inside would be considered sabotage instead of heroism.

[Sheb]

Wellington, there is more than that. They have To obey. A good Apple m'y s mile and tell Joke to protester s as he's trampling their rights, but he'll still do it if ordered.

[RedKing]

There's also a certain mentality that you see in police that you also see in professional militaries.

I call it the "warrior elite" ethic. That because they face danger in their job, because they sacrifice themselves so that society doesn't have to, then society should keep its damn mouth shut and do what it's told before they have to beat a little sense into it. It's a disdain for "commoners" because of the professionalization of the law enforcement/military role into almost a seperate caste.

I have an old high school friend who's a cop, and I don't envy his job. He has to deal on a daily basis with people that most of us would just want to smack the hell out of. He gets to respond to calls and find people lying face down in their own blood. He gets to spend all sorts of time testifying in court only to see unrepentant perps walk on a technicality. He gets to have his competency, honesty and integrity regularly questioned by defense attorneys. He gets to be automatically assumed to be racist because he's a white cop.

At the same time, I sometimes catch him invoking that "warrior elite" mentality that I reference above. And yeah, things are kinda tense between us right now because he thinks the Occupy movement is a bunch of spoiled college kids who need to shut the hell up and go home. I haven't directly asked him what he thinks of NYPD's behavior or the pepper spray incidents at Berkeley. I think he'd be conflicted on them. At least I hope he would.

[Truean]

I deal with police quite a bit. Some of them are decent. Some are total bastards. Still others are nice. They're like everyone else really when they clock in and out....

I get varying opinions about how they view this whole mess. Some are assholes. Some feel some understanding but can't do shit about it. Still most of the others just feel caught in the middle. Their job is to enforce the law and their boss, the mayor, has told them that what someone is doing is illegal. It's a giant damn mess.

A system that doesn't mind peaceful protestors, is clearly best.

I found one officer's remarks fairly interesting and I'm not sure how to think of them:
"So what if they're stupid hippies. You just leave them alone and they get tired and leave. You don't pepper spray hippies, you ignore them and they go home and everyone forgets about them."

[RedKing]

Crap...the cop buddy I was just mentioning just posted a video "proving" that the Berkeley cops were in the right, and is getting (figuratively) red in the face arguing with people about it. Wrong answer, bro. 

[Nadaka]

Crap...the cop buddy I was just mentioning just posted a video "proving" that the Berkeley cops were in the right, and is getting (figuratively) red in the face arguing with people about it. Wrong answer, bro. 

You are better off without some kinds of friends.

[Impending Doom]

Having been around military types my entire life (I lived on a succession of military bases until just shortly before starting kindergarten, fully half of the males in my family have seen some kind of service, and a disproportionate number of my college classmates are veterans.) I can't say that I've ever seen the kind of 'elitist attitude' you're talking about. Most veterans I know (up to and including my father and grandfather) consider the actions of police at occupy protests to be reprehensible. They seem about evenly divided in their opinions of the protestors themselves, though.

[RedKing]

Having been around military types my entire life (I lived on a succession of military bases until just shortly before starting kindergarten, fully half of the males in my family have seen some kind of service, and a disproportionate number of my college classmates are veterans.) I can't say that I've ever seen the kind of 'elitist attitude' you're talking about. Most veterans I know (up to and including my father and grandfather) consider the actions of police at occupy protests to be reprehensible. They seem about evenly divided in their opinions of the protestors themselves, though.

It's not necessarily a cross-over thing. A lot of police (especially in base towns) consider troops to be gung-ho jarheads getting in trouble, while a lot of troops consider a lot of police to be puffed-up power trippers. I was more referring to the reaction towards criticism of their own institution. For instance, the reaction in the Armed Forces towards civilian criticism of friendly fire incidents or collateral damage incidents. Or to the war(s) itself. Or even attitudes towards civilian oversight in general (although admittedly, even I'm ambivalent about civilian oversight at times)

[SalmonGod]

Occupy is organizing stronger efforts to resist foreclosures nationwide.

occupyourhomes.org

Edit:

A very well written and disturbing account of one of the arrestees from the eviction raid on Occupy LA.

[Phmcw]

Just saying, if the structure is rotten or really bad, it will weed out the good elements or drive them insane.
And there is the whole indoctrination of course, the "elite warrior" mentality is done on purpose and an important element of corp spirit (and one you should mitigate because it will shut down their sense of compassion).

[Truean]

San Diego: Three homeowners fighting to keep to their homes spokes, each one of them letting the banks know that if they come to evict, "We're not leaving."

I'm afraid the Sheriff might have other ideas....

7:36 PM: Occupy San Jose, Occupy Redwood City & ACCE marched with Gloria Takla to Chase bank and were able to delay her home's sale date until February 14. The bank also agreed to meet with her to discuss a loan modification.

This has more chance in the sense that it delays action, which is mostly what foreclosure defense clients get from attorney representation (hey, they aren't paying anything to live their while the suit is in the court system) unless the bank did something procedurally wrong that warrants some major remedy. This is possible though, improper notary is huge and the courts don't like banks screwing with this procedure "because it's cheaper to do it right."

That said, HAMP is a failure, because the law literally needs to hold the bank's hand or NOTHING happens even though you submit the same documents to the bank 21 times (literally). The banks don't seem to want the process to resolve quickly, sanely, or favorably for anyone including themselves. 
I have without exaggeration offered the bank $80K for a $100K house when the guy got refinanced. Rather than take this offer, the bank foreclosed, went to Sheriff's sale and got about $43K for the house. Good job, you lost your bank $37K, asshole.

[Luke_Prowler]

I think the "elite warrior" problem isn't as narrow as you guys think. Look up "monkeysphere" to see what I mean.

[Nadaka]

Just saying, if the structure is rotten or really bad, it will weed out the good elements or drive them insane.
And there is the whole indoctrination of course, the "elite warrior" mentality is done on purpose and an important element of corp spirit (and one you should mitigate because it will shut down their sense of compassion).

It isn't even really an elite warrior thing. The military is family, every soldier is your brother.

[RedKing]

Just saying, if the structure is rotten or really bad, it will weed out the good elements or drive them insane.
And there is the whole indoctrination of course, the "elite warrior" mentality is done on purpose and an important element of corp spirit (and one you should mitigate because it will shut down their sense of compassion).

It isn't even really an elite warrior thing. The military is family, every soldier is your brother.

Nothing wrong with fraternal spirit. What I'm referring to is a notion that civvies are at best, just naive children who can't possibly understand how the "real world" works; and at worst, "lesser people". It's paternalism.

[mainiac]

That's how I feel about people who can't do calculus and statistics.  Good bless 'em, the poor dears.