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[Varnifane]

Either way, I plan to make a zombie moat.  Magma moats are expensive, and cost lives.  Zombie moats are cheap, and cost MORE likves!

A proper zombie moat would have multiple rings.

• A dry moat full of zombie badgers, giant badgers, badger men and badger women
• A wet moat full of zombie carp
• A magma moat full of magma crabs

[FearfulJesuit]

What I think might be interesting is several different types of economies, on a sliding scale. A fort that does lots of exportation may make so much cash, and import so many other finished goods that it needs, that it can create a Scandinavia-type welfare state, set by you, where no dwarf gets anything less than a masterwork roast for dinner. Or, if you think that's dangerously socialistic, let capitalism run free, and all dwarves are free to set up their own businesses. Because of supply and demand, that might not run as badly as we think.

[Necro910]

Either way, I plan to make a zombie moat.  Magma moats are expensive, and cost lives.  Zombie moats are cheap, and cost MORE likves!

A proper zombie moat would have multiple rings.

• A dry moat full of zombie badgers, giant badgers, badger men and badger women
• A wet moat full of zombie carp
• A magma moat full of magma crabs

Magma crabs don't need magma, and may even harm zombie magma crabs. A wet moat of carp AND badgers may be more effective, if they can't climb out.

In fact, just have a dry moat of carp and badgers!

[Xen0n]

Either way, I plan to make a zombie moat.  Magma moats are expensive, and cost lives.  Zombie moats are cheap, and cost MORE likves!

A proper zombie moat would have multiple rings.

• A dry moat full of zombie badgers, giant badgers, badger men and badger women
• A wet moat full of zombie carp
• A magma moat full of magma crabs

Magma crabs don't need magma, and may even harm zombie magma crabs. A wet moat of carp AND badgers may be more effective, if they can't climb out.

In fact, just have a dry moat of carp and badgers!

...Suggested removing magma from a design...

ಠ_ಠ

Who ARE you?!

[Musashi]

It's also fairly impossible to purposefully cage a dwarf.

Only about as impossible as Forgotten Beasts. Who are constantly being caged by clever players. If I can have a bunch of thirsty dwarfs stuck in cages after every siege or epidemic without doing it on purpose...
Back to the current conversation, I'm not really afraid of zombies. I'm very curious of how they'll rise, when, where, what turns undead, etc. Can't wait for the surprise. Maybe the fort'll even survive its first zombie outbreak, who knows! And given the way I'm playing, there will be metric shittons of *Fun* outside, and more *Fun* near some workshops inside, not counting the catacombs. 

[UltraValican]

Hm.  I hope indeed that smooth walls can hold back tunneling invaders.  Or at least a water magma moat.

Even better, move your fortress to the bottom of the magma sea. Lets see the invaders tunnel through that.

A Goblin Bucket Brigade!  Curse them!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The idea of Goblins with access to water-bucket technology is scary    Imagine them making a moat around your fort to try to starve you out.

This is a better siege tactic then "wait around to be magmad"

[Xen0n]

Hm.  I hope indeed that smooth walls can hold back tunneling invaders.  Or at least a water magma moat.

Even better, move your fortress to the bottom of the magma sea. Lets see the invaders tunnel through that.

A Goblin Bucket Brigade!  Curse them!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The idea of Goblins with access to water-bucket technology is scary    Imagine them making a moat around your fort to try to starve you out.

This is a better siege tactic then "wait around to be magmad"

Especially if in the scenario of bringing buckets of water to obsidianise your magma moat, they drop it when you pull the Omega Lever, thus spilling the water and forming an obsidian wall protecting them from WEAPON.  Water-carrying gobbos could force us to be more creative with our application of magma.

[Icee77]

I really hope I'll get a jailbreak of a dozen or so Dwarf WereBears.......
Also, Goblin Necromancers who summon waterssssss.

[elf-fondling human]

The other problem with necromancers is raising all the carp / badgers / gorlaks that naturally die over the map without your knowledge.

Spoiler: Derail (click to show/hide)

The dead will walk.  Corpses must be burned.  The Long Night falls.  Brace yourselves.  Winter is coming.

Oh man, you just convinced me to hold off until the next update to do my special embark:
Cold forest biome, bring 5 wolf pups (modded to be war-trainable) and only using the starting 7.  End goal is a stone above-ground fort (with some crypts) and a 10-z high ice wall covering the northern edge of the map.

Song of Ice and Fire?

[Xen0n]

The other problem with necromancers is raising all the carp / badgers / gorlaks that naturally die over the map without your knowledge.

Spoiler: Derail (click to show/hide)

The dead will walk.  Corpses must be burned.  The Long Night falls.  Brace yourselves.  Winter is coming.

Oh man, you just convinced me to hold off until the next update to do my special embark:
Cold forest biome, bring 5 wolf pups (modded to be war-trainable) and only using the starting 7.  End goal is a stone above-ground fort (with some crypts) and a 10-z high ice wall covering the northern edge of the map.

Song of Ice and Fire?

You know nothing it, elf-fondling human!

[Lazy_lizard]

I think my problem with the weapons not using the correct number of bars is that one bar of iron weighs more than an iron battle axe, so the idea that it is supposed to use five bars turns weaponsmithing into an excellent way of atom smashing perfectly good metal.

[Zapitron]

I'm expecting someone to mod in a crematorium immediately, which takes your common un-butherables like goblins and elves, and destroys the corpse

The whole reason sentients aren't butcherable is ethics, but watch any zombie apocalypse and you'll realize that the ethics of dealing with the dead adapt to the new reality.  Oh, your best buddy got scratched by a zombie?  The old ethics were that you looked for a bandage.  The new ethics are that you look for an axe.  What was once unthinkable, becomes routine necessity.

When necromancers roam the land, maybe you still won't eat goblins after killing them, but you'll sure as hell mince them (or otherwise destroy the corpse without having to resort to a mod).  If you can't, I'd call that a bug.

Oh, and if metal equipment takes more bars to create, then goblinite will yield more bars, no?  Mining that first batch of goblinite will be harder, but after a certain point you'll have plenty of metal.  Or if you don't, it's because the goblin's economy will have crashed due to their dwarfite mining project failing, so they'll be coming after you armed only with pointed sticks and bone armor.

[astianax]

i can tell you that, at least currently, magma doesn't hinder undead magma crabs and fire imps in the slightest. they're still immune to it, and the zombies still spew miasma through the magma. don't particularly see that going away when necromancers can raise them

and, for the sappers, i'm surprised no one's thought of the idea of some races where the whole race is sappers, on top of whatever else they'd be able to do as individuals. i mean, two potentials for this that already exist in the game are badgermen and molemarians. being part badger or part mole, they'd quite possibly be as used to digging as dwarves, if not moreso

i'm looking forward to the economy, personally. already set up huge silk, glass, and clay industries in most embarks because i like variety, even if my dwarves just stash their extra socks in their rooms to drool over in what little free time they get...

[Kassil]

First, let's NOT discuss the multi-threading argument YET AGAIN, so let's just drop that right now.  If you wanna derail that, there's hundreds other threads dedicated to it.

Whoops. Sorry, I haven't hung around the forum enough to realize it's a controversy. >.>

[Melissia]

Hm.  Is a magma moat a fire risk for any nearby plants?  Or a melting risk for dirt and clay?