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[Tevish Szat]

I'm betting that with Supply and Demand mechanics will come [SUPPLY_AND_DEMAND:OFF] in many raws.  Me?  I don't mind the idea, frankly.  Sure right now I trade 15 million useless stone crafts to every caravan, but there are two things I'm decently sure of.  The first is that if any class of item is less hurt by market saturation, it'll be crafts (of which there are a ton of subtypes, and which are intended to be trade goods), and the second is that I can probably manage a simple crop rotation of worthless crud made out of rock: Crafts > Mugs > Mechanisms > Coffins for a laugh > Crafts or some such.

Given my current hate-hate relationship with military, it's the exotic sieges that will probably provide the most backbreaking ‼Fun‼, especially the possibility of tunneling sieges turning the map into swiss cheese.

[Girlinhat]

First, let's NOT discuss the multi-threading argument YET AGAIN, so let's just drop that right now.  If you wanna derail that, there's hundreds other threads dedicated to it.

You can pretty much mod out anything you don't like.  That's neat for the player, gets to tailor the game, but it's gonna get beyond the point of rationality.  If you've modded your game to provide free infinite giant ax blades, created from 1 bar, sold to a trader who is brainwashed to buy them for top dollar to protect his home against enemies who's entire sieging tactic is to sit in the dirt...  Well, if you're modding that far and playing it as a "normal fort" then you're fine, as long as you never try to talk about it because the community at large will laugh you straight off the internet.

Oh, and ore isn't solid.  You don't find iron ore and find a solid block of iron forming the entire wall.  Current gold mining is actually pretty much dust, dirt colored dust, no less.  The process of smelting is to remove the impurities and distill it down to a bar.  It just so happens that the entire wall is an impurity and the dwarves burn away the dirt to reveal a single nugget of copper.

For the record though, tunneling enemies will probably be heavily bugged and hyper-aggressive when introduced, so expect your maps to be considerably lighter after a month of attack.  I'd probably have to mod them out if they were acting overly disruptive.  I love the idea of siege ladders though, I'd probably leave that in even if they were bugged to HFS and back.

[Vehudur]

Siege ladders would be epic, but I cover my fortifications anyways to protect against flying nasties.

That, or we need massive moats.

Underground warfare with mining and counter-mining and causing cave-ins on the other side's tunnels would be epic, though.

[Dangerous Beans]

Given my current hate-hate relationship with military, it's the exotic sieges that will probably provide the most backbreaking ‼Fun‼, especially the possibility of tunneling sieges turning the map into swiss cheese.

Yeah, those will no doubt be a lot of fun for me too.

The change that broke me was the military update. I could do it before, but now it is just too complex for me to get my head around. 

[EveryZig]

First, let's NOT discuss the multi-threading argument YET AGAIN, so let's just drop that right now.  If you wanna derail that, there's hundreds other threads dedicated to it.

One might say that the argument is in multiple threads.

[Girlinhat]

ಠ_ಠ

[Valdrax]

One might say that the argument is in multiple threads.

Someone's cruisin' for a deadlock.

[Teronsuke]

First, let's NOT discuss the multi-threading argument YET AGAIN, so let's just drop that right now.  If you wanna derail that, there's hundreds other threads dedicated to it.

One might say that the argument is in multiple threads.

I can't decide whether to put you in the room with a lever that says "pull me", or laugh.

[Varnifane]

For the record though, tunneling enemies will probably be heavily bugged and hyper-aggressive when introduced, so expect your maps to be considerably lighter after a month of attack. 

But I imagine we will be able to protect our walls from being tunneled through a la Dungeonsiege. Except the dwarves will be smoothing instead of dancing. Or maybe dancing smoothly...

[Melissia]

First, let's NOT discuss the multi-threading argument YET AGAIN, so let's just drop that right now.  If you wanna derail that, there's hundreds other threads dedicated to it.

One might say that the argument is in multiple threads.

I can't decide whether to put you in the room with a lever that says "pull me", or laugh.

Both?

[ddonohu2]

I'm not that worried about many of the economic changes since I rarely trade. My main concerns are regulating my internal economy (preventing poverty and the like)and the chance that skilled laborers from immortal races will be able to saturate the market with every conceivable good. Particularly if elves enter a dwarfish civ and gain access to all their reactions. Oh, and coin re-stacking needs to be a thing or I'm not making any. Ever.

On the digging enemies side of things, I like the idea of less turtle-ing but the implementation bothers me in a couple of ways. Firstly, the obvious problem of enemies auto-digging out my entire map. The obvious solutions being limited digging by amount (enemies can only dig x squares) or limited digging by type (enemies can only dig soil, non-smoothed stone, etc). I vastly prefer the later as it prevents unskilled enemy miners from digging through precious ores. The second (and more serious) problem for me is the way it makes Dwarfs less unique as a race. If all my enemies can mine, etc as I can then it weakens the characterization of the various civs. The upshot of all this is that enemy diggers should be civilians (if this is not the case then I will be switching this feature off and leaving it off until this changes). Having enemy civilians on screen offers many interesting possibilities.

What I would really like to see from this in the future is for trading to have a greater affect on diplomacy. If I understand correctly the current development arc covers tracking world changes outside the fortress. I'm hoping a future release will have traders from famine ridden civs asking me to trade food and declaring war if I don't, friendly civs using the weapons I sell them to win wars (or not should I so choose). If any of this were implemented I'd be far more excited about economy being added.

[Crustypeanut]

I look forward to these changes! Increase the difficulty! DO EET! I already play with Fortress Defense using all challenge and bonus races!

[Girlinhat]

If economy and politics get added so that you can reshape the world by selling a few strategically placed axes, then I will probably need real help getting away from the computer.  That would so amazing...

Oh, and dwarves will always be unique.  We're the only race to forge steel, build underground, utilize underground cropsMAGMAAAAA!!!

[sambojin]

Nope, I didn't. I usually do, but I couldn't be bothered. I didn't read the whole thread before I posted my own, probably incorrect, or already posted, opinions.

#1. If the amount that the designer is going to chuck into this version, and if it vaguely works or gets an update soonish so that it "sort of works" (note: we understand that there is some unforeseen bugs/issues/features Toady. That's why we're here), and there's nothing in it that isn't so tightly coded/balanced that unexplained or emergent behaviour isn't portrayed by bay12 posters, that will break me.

#2 If there's not just a couple of "place-holder" diplomatic/war/trade options.

#3 If the amount of bars needed isn't what "should" be required. Simple code fix, makes things at least start to be what they were intended to be worth. Change and fine tune from there.

[Xen0n]

Nope, I didn't. I usually do, but I couldn't be bothered. I didn't read the whole thread before I posted my own, probably incorrect, or already posted, opinions.
~Snip~
#3 If the amount of bars needed isn't what "should" be required. Simple code fix, makes things at least start to be what they were intended to be worth. Change and fine tune from there.

Sambojin, just in case you didn't already know and were jonesing for tribar breastplates, this thread mentions how to edit the raws in the current version to make weapons and armor take multiple bars again. 

As far as tunneling enemies crowding in on the dwarves' 'turf,' as it were, this is just speculation, but I could see tunneling done as more of a 'last resort.'  They'd be slower than dwarves, I'd imagine, and perhaps wouldn't even try it unless they've been waiting outside for several months with no way to pathfind in, or only if last year's siege couldn't pathfind a way in (similar to how he mentions in the devlog sieges will 'learn' to avoid that scorched patch of dirt under the magma reservoir.)  That way it could deter turtling without going nuts churning up all the soil.  Of course, as mentioned, it'll probably start out bugged  .

For any of the upcoming changes, I'd say there'd have to be a really scrappy mechanic for most people to mod it out (e.g. aquifers).  By and large though, we'll try it out, get overwhelmed, throws curses at it, throw magma at, break it, bend it to our will, harness it's raw potential, then use it to slaughter elves.  It is the dwarven way to settle anywhere, and adapt.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

First, let's NOT discuss the multi-threading argument YET AGAIN, so let's just drop that right now.  If you wanna derail that, there's hundreds other threads dedicated to it.

One might say that the argument is in multiple threads.

Made my breakfast .  But anyway, let's stick to the single core topic of this thread