Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[NativeForeigner]

This is the worst time to slow down.

Jim: I hope you had time to finish your reread before you got swamped by homework. What did you find out?

Irony: Why haven't you been posting? I'm still waiting on you to answer my first question.

Urist: Why aren't you asking any questions?

[Urist_McArathos]

Because nobody is here to ask.

[NativeForeigner]

And you can't ask them questions for when they get back because...?

[Jim Groovester]

Jim: I hope you had time to finish your reread before you got swamped by homework. What did you find out?

Sorry, still working on homework.

And before you ask why I'm participating in other games, they don't take as much time to go over and there's no deadline for this game anyway.

[Urist_McArathos]

And you can't ask them questions for when they get back because...?

Because I want to see what Irony has to say about my suspicions, among others.  Considering all you're asking Jim for is what he's found out on a reread, you're not looking for more out of him.

[IronyOwl]

I still haven't managed a reread, sorry.

Urist & Irony: You both explicitly stated that you were looking for interactions between other players and Shark, but I didn't notice either of you doing much about it directly. I'm interested in hearing about what you found.

I really need to do a reread, but from what I remember:

You and he ignored each other.

Jim softballed him and he ignored/something I can't think of the word for at Jim. Specifically, when he was moaning at me about how I'm manipulating Jim and Jim's going to lynch him for some ill-defined reason and so forth. That sort of strange assertion that the other person isn't really a person so much as an innocent but very, very malleable vote.

Urist jumped on him a bit... abruptly, I think. There was something very quick or eager about it I didn't like, but I'd have to go back and reread to give a better description of it. Shark pretty much ignored him in return.

Jim seems a bit uncertain, which matches his meta as a player who hasn't done a vengeful yet (though my recent experience in Wild West Mafia has taught me to listen to gut, so Jim's not town in my eyes yet).

That's not really "meta" so much as "a halfassed guess." Is your gut saying anything currently, or are you just willing to listen to it should it come up with an opinion on Jim, but not on Native?

Irony, I just don't like the way things started out.  Despite his implying that he wasn't looking my way much, I got the distinct impression I was under serious scrutiny (being labeled second and then third pick in his posts only confirmed that in my eyes), and his questioning and observing without voting gave me the feeling he was waiting to see if I broke scum before deciding if he should bus his partner.  When I seemed town enough to make that case a hard one (and after I voted), then he voted Shark claiming he'd seen enough to make that call.

You were under scrutiny, just not a lot of questioning.

What is it you think you did to make calling you scum infeasible?

Irony also inadvertently raised a good point when countering Shark's comments about not wanting to risk a vengekill by being first by asking "why would I take the second, more dangerous vote?"  Well, not that it's proof in itself, but when you know there's no risk of a vengekill you don't need to be as careful with your vote or your case. 

I'm gonna be honest here, this logic is scummily bad. I was willing to take the second vote, therefore I'm... well, not scum explicitly, but more likely to be scum, or something?

Irony: Why haven't you been posting? I'm still waiting on you to answer my first question.

Busy and such, and wanted to get a reread before bothering. Looks like that's not happening extremely soon, so here we are.

[Jim Groovester]

Jim: What have you noticed about everyone?

Jim: I hope you had time to finish your reread before you got swamped by homework. What did you find out?

Is there any reason why you're waiting for me to make a move before you decide to make one of your own?

Okay, it's not just me. You ask IronyOwl and McArathos basically the same questions. It still looks like you're waiting for somebody else to make a move, so that you can follow their lead.

How about, coming out of Day 1, you tell me what your thoughts are on everybody, instead of waiting on everybody else to say theirs first.

And how come Shark never got into any really serious arguments or discussions with you? What's that about?

McArathos, why were you so worried about IronyOwl suspecting you yesterday, so much so that you thought you were his top suspect?

Also, how likely do you think it is that IronyOwl would lynch Shark like he did as the Godfather?

IronyOwl, a token question because I can't think of anything really to ask you:

IronyOwl, when would you hammer a player?

When I was convinced that they needed to die. That's a fairly generic answer, but there basically comes a point at which someone's either scum, your best guess at scum, or in the way.

Could you explain this statement, and specifically what you mean by "In the way" here?

Currently I'm thinking it's NativeForeigner, mostly because of gut. I feel I see evidence of skillful scum tactics in the way he's doing stuff but it might as well be circumstantial.

[NativeForeigner]

And you can't ask them questions for when they get back because...?

Because I want to see what Irony has to say about my suspicions, among others.  Considering all you're asking Jim for is what he's found out on a reread, you're not looking for more out of him.

They hadn't responded to my first round of questions yet, you have. I was wondering why you didn't ask them anything in the meantime.

Irony: What what do you make of those interactions?

Jim: Yeah, there's a reason I'm waiting, but it's not so that I can follow their lead. I'm at a bit of a loss right now and I'm still trying to put things together. I was hoping anything that came from my questions would speed the process.

My thoughts on everybody right now:

Jim: Not sure what to make of you. This game you've been rather quiet compared to how you normally play, and you don't seem as aggressive as I'm used to seeing you. Probably second or third pick.

Urist: He hasn't been asking very many questions this game, which concerns me. I've seen that problem with scum quite a bit, they already know who's town and who's scum, so they can't think of much to ask anyone. He also didn't pay Shark much attention until he decided to jump in and vote him. Then he laid low until it was pretty much over, which leads me to believe that he could have decided to bus Shark when he kept slipping. Second or first pick.

Irony: He mentioned earlier that he could see Shark slipping up easily as scum, which could be taken that he knew Shark was scum and mentioned this as a sort of lead for when Shark did start slipping so he could bus (but that's a rather weak argument).

After Shark started slipping up worse and worse, Irony claimed that he was almost certain Shark was scum, but was extremely hesitant to vote him. Now that Shark has flipped, it seems that he was working on distancing himself from Shark but wasn't quite ready to bus him yet. This seems even more likely since Irony only finally voted Shark AFTER Urist did, probably feeling forced to bus at that point. Also, you mentioned earlier that Irony is good at talking himself out of high-pressure situations, which is causing me to go back and reread his arguments that lead to my unvote. Second or first pick.

As for Shark, it was probably because after the voting happened, I was more focused on IronyOwl and didn't give Shark another hard look until after I unvoted.

[Jim Groovester]

If it's a choice between IronyOwl and McArathos, what do you need to decide?

Why didn't you offer your thoughts on everybody at the start of the day unprompted? Why did I have to ask you to provide them?

[NativeForeigner]

I need to figure out which one is scum, duh. More accurately, I need to try to determine who's giving real tells and who's giving false tells.

Because I generally keep it to myself until I decide who's scum. My thoughts on everybody aren't exactly important to anybody else until I'm actually ready to go after someone.

[Urist_McArathos]

IronyOwl:  I'm willing to listen to my gut if I get an odd feeling about anyone, but I'm not at the moment.  Jim knows me very well, and once he has me pegged as town or scum he knows how to play to take advantage of that.  That makes him the most dangerous scum player to me, since it's easier for him to mislead me (see Wild West Mafia where, despite my knowing LYLO was the perfect setup for him as scum AND having an odd gut feeling about him, he still won).  I'm not getting any scum vibes from him, but I know better than to assume I can read him perfectly.

As for what I did, you tell me.  I'm accusing you of withholding your vote until I broke town, which is more or less what you said when you voted Shark; my vote and the other interactions gave you what you needed to know to vote.  I pretty much said this in my last post.  I'm not sure what I did to clear myself in your eyes, because part of my suspicion of you is that I felt like my rank on your scum list didn't mesh with your scumhunting and behavior.  At this point I'm of the opinion you were waiting to see if I'd slip up enough that you could vote me and save your partner, and when I didn't, you went with the default of bussing Shark.

Jim: I wasn't worried, I just misread a post of his and thought he was calling me his top suspect.  It's why I had a problem with Shark, since I (mistakenly) attacked him for making a big deal out of Irony considering him his number one suspect when he wasn't.

How likely would Irony bus Shark?  Extremely likely, if you ask me.  Shark was acting very scummy, there was no reason not to bus him.  Irony, you, and Native are all experienced enough to know to bus your partner when they become a liability, lest you be tied to them for not voting the obvscum.  To me, it's so likely that it's not worth mentioning as a point.  Shark was scum; voting for him was such a painfully obvious choice that both townies and halfway decent scum would know to do it.  Everyone left for me to investigate is definitely one of those two categories.

So, who exactly do you suspect?  I'm not getting a lot of hunting from you; you seem like you're hanging back and observing, prodding here and there but not pursuing any leads.  Surely you have some suspicions and ideas at this point?

[Jim Groovester]

So, who exactly do you suspect?  I'm not getting a lot of hunting from you; you seem like you're hanging back and observing, prodding here and there but not pursuing any leads.  Surely you have some suspicions and ideas at this point?

Currently I'm thinking it's NativeForeigner, mostly because of gut. I feel I see evidence of skillful scum tactics in the way he's doing stuff but it might as well be circumstantial.

That post I made where I said this was the result of my reread. In other words, not a whole lot turned up.

But you asking me about it did remind me of something.

And how come Shark never got into any really serious arguments or discussions with you? What's that about?

NativeForeigner, how come you ignored this question?

[NativeForeigner]

NativeForeigner, how come you ignored this question?

I didn't. My reply is in the last line of that post, I just didn't distinguish it properly.

[IronyOwl]

IronyOwl, when would you hammer a player?

When I was convinced that they needed to die. That's a fairly generic answer, but there basically comes a point at which someone's either scum, your best guess at scum, or in the way.

Could you explain this statement, and specifically what you mean by "In the way" here?

Basically, there's a point at which someone is one of the following:

Genuine scum. They need to be lynched.

Your best guess at scum. You're not positive, but you're not going to be any more positive than this, so there's nothing to be done but call the shot.

A gibbering imbecile. They're not necessarily scum, but you don't have any way of knowing that either way, and they're going to be a hindrance if they're not killed regardless. More specifically, there's times when someone isn't necessarily your first pick, but the game's clearly not going anywhere with them still in it.

Irony: What what do you make of those interactions?

Initially, I thought Jim may have been softballing his partner, Urist may have been bussing his partner, and you may have been ignoring your partner but were more likely town. Now I'm leaning more towards Urist bussing his partner, you maybe ignoring your partner, and Jim possibly softballing his partner but much less so than before.

As for what I did, you tell me.  I'm accusing you of withholding your vote until I broke town, which is more or less what you said when you voted Shark; my vote and the other interactions gave you what you needed to know to vote.  I pretty much said this in my last post.  I'm not sure what I did to clear myself in your eyes, because part of my suspicion of you is that I felt like my rank on your scum list didn't mesh with your scumhunting and behavior.  At this point I'm of the opinion you were waiting to see if I'd slip up enough that you could vote me and save your partner, and when I didn't, you went with the default of bussing Shark.

You didn't break town, you broke third scumpick.

In any case, if you can't describe what you did to make calling you scum infeasible, what makes you think it happened?

[Urist_McArathos]

Been sick the past few days, will post later tonight.