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[NativeForeigner]

Toaster: That second one. It seemed the most logical to me. With the mayor having been killed, it would make sense for the scum to have a kill. It doesn't quite make sense for them to not use it.

[Orangebottle]

Everyone seems to be forgetting that despite being flavor-heavy, this is still a game of Mafia. While I used to support flavor hunting, it turns out that it's rather useless. So far we've managed to lynch a townie(I will call him townie until someone can prove otherwise) and hand an easy victory to the Lyncher. Let's do what we do. Scumhunt.

Native:Who's your top scumpick(besides Xanatos, cause he's pretty much gone) and why aren't you hunting them?

Nuke, Jack, Dariush, Akigagak:Same question.

I'm not going to let you guys sit there while the scum is laughing their asses off in their own little corner because their flavor claim has no flaws.

[NativeForeigner]

I'm still working that out and I'm not hunting them because it's Sunday.

[Urist_McArathos]

Arathos for ignoring me. While overdefending is scummy, not defending at all doesn't help anybody.

Arathos: There's a problem with your post that I missed in my response.

There's a lot of possible solutions to being in pain.  Again, I think assuming that the simple answer that "he just thought he was a jester, and was wrong" might not be the right answer here.  Even if he was wrong and honestly just screwed it up, that doesn't change the fact it apparently WASN'T his wincon...so what would have ended that pain (and therefore fulfilled his wincon)?

This line of questioning, actually, this post in particular feels very scummy. Rolefishing's the reason. It looks and smells like rolefishing, so it must be thus. That's the only reason you'd ask me something neither a vanilla townie nor a scum would know. You're trying to find a cop. Let me be the first to tell you that you're definitely looking in the wrong place.

Either that, or you're trying to use sarcasm over the internet and it's not going over very well.

First off, you didn't ask me a question, you pointed out a problem with my line of thinking.  I had nothing to ignore; you don't like my trying to figure out what's going on with a townie killing himself, I feel it's important.  You want me to talk to you, tell me.

As for your problem: Rolefishing a dead player?  I'm trying to figure out why he'd want to lynch HIMSELF if he's a townie.  He didn't give us all his role details, and it's clear there's some important details behind it.  I'm not satisfied with "Oh well, he was wrong, let's move on shall we?" when we have every reason to believe there could be more to it.  You're REALLY stretching to turn this into rolefishing.

I said we, meaning town, should probably try to figure out WHY he would think he was a jester, or if there was more to his role than we suspected.  You quickly say this is pointless speculation (which it isn't; we've already established that our roles can and do have important bits of information, and as a townie his might help us find scum).  When I ask why you're so quick to ignore any other possibility, you accuse me of trying to distract you, and use ONE sentence, actually one PHRASE from his role PM to "prove" I'm wasting my time.  When I suggest there could be, you know, a fuckton more there that might be relevant, you freak out, accuse me of trying to rolefish for a cop, and ask why I'm not asking someone else.

You're paranoid, considering I wasn't pressuring you OR voting you, but engaging you in a dialogue about why we should try to investigate flavor for a bit longer.

Vector and Toaster actually DID start to pressure you, and now you're trying to shift suspicion onto me to escape further scrutiny.  "Hey guys, I'm not throwing up weak defenses or panicking!  Arathos, you're rolefishing and ignoring questions I didn't ask!  Hey, let's change the subject, guys, no more flavor fishing, it can't help us because it hasn't yet!"

Now I'm really starting to wonder why you're so dead set against poking around the flavor for clues, Orangebottle.

[Orangebottle]

First off, you didn't ask me a question, you pointed out a problem with my line of thinking.  I had nothing to ignore; you don't like my trying to figure out what's going on with a townie killing himself, I feel it's important.  You want me to talk to you, tell me.

Someone pointing out a problem in your thinking merits a response.

As for your problem: Rolefishing a dead player?  I'm trying to figure out why he'd want to lynch HIMSELF if he's a townie.  He didn't give us all his role details, and it's clear there's some important details behind it.  I'm not satisfied with "Oh well, he was wrong, let's move on shall we?" when we have every reason to believe there could be more to it.  You're REALLY stretching to turn this into rolefishing.

No. I'm not. I'm saying that you're rolefishing me. Read it again and come back to me.

When I ask why you're so quick to ignore any other possibility, you accuse me of trying to distract you, and use ONE sentence, actually one PHRASE from his role PM to "prove" I'm wasting my time.  When I suggest there could be, you know, a fuckton more there that might be relevant, you freak out, accuse me of trying to rolefish for a cop, and ask why I'm not asking someone else.

You didn't ask me that. No, you asked me, quite specifically:

We know one line from his flavor.

There's a lot of possible solutions to being in pain.  Again, I think assuming that the simple answer that "he just thought he was a jester, and was wrong" might not be the right answer here.  Even if he was wrong and honestly just screwed it up, that doesn't change the fact it apparently WASN'T his wincon...so what would have ended that pain (and therefore fulfilled his wincon)?

And, as I've said before, the only people who could possibly know this are the mod, Zrk2, and a flavor/role cop.

That one line was more than enough to clarify why he thought he was a jester. Here's another reason why your questions were pointless: you were speculating about a dead guy's role in a game where little to no actual scumhunting is going on. No, it's mostly flavor hunting, which is a different beast entirely. From the abrupt end of RVS to today, everyone has been flavor hunting, which is largely useless in scumhunting.

You're paranoid, considering I wasn't pressuring you OR voting you, but engaging you in a dialogue about why we should try to investigate flavor for a bit longer.

Except at this point we've investigated all the flavor we have to investigate. You weren't just talking 'about why we should try to investigate flavor for a bit longer'. You asked me a question that is impossible for me to answer. It's like telling your computer to divide 200 by 0. It's just not possible.

Vector and Toaster actually DID start to pressure you, and now you're trying to shift suspicion onto me to escape further scrutiny.  "Hey guys, I'm not throwing up weak defenses or panicking!  Arathos, you're rolefishing and ignoring questions I didn't ask!  Hey, let's change the subject, guys, no more flavor fishing, it can't help us because it hasn't yet!"

When you say it with a heavy bias it sure seems that way. Are you trying to say I'd be less scummy had I only defended myself?

Now I'm really starting to wonder why you're so dead set against poking around the flavor for clues, Orangebottle.

Frankly? Because the stream of information that is available for flavor hunting is easily manipulated. Not only that, but we've poked all we can poke thus far. The only remaining things to poke are what Vector and I have left out of our flavor, and that would lead directly to a full roleclaim on my part. Something that we agree would be unwise at this point.
I have a feeling this is only happening because of my bragging.

[Toaster]

Nuke:

Toaster: Yes.

Well, that's interesting.  I'm going to assume you're not jester since you're not asking to get lynched, so what do you know about the alignment of your lynch target?


Orange:

This bugs me.  Why do you think he was a townie?  All we know is that he's not a jester- he didn't flip any sort of a wincon or alignment.

I'll answer your question with another question.
Why would a scum have a vague role PM like that?

Because it's a semi-bastard mod?  Why are you answering questions with WIFOM?

Everyone seems to be forgetting that despite being flavor-heavy, this is still a game of Mafia. While I used to support flavor hunting, it turns out that it's rather useless. So far we've managed to lynch a townie(I will call him townie until someone can prove otherwise) and hand an easy victory to the Lyncher. Let's do what we do. Scumhunt.

That's great and all, but asking several people their top pick is bottom-grade scumhunting, used when you don't actually have any opinions of your own... which I'm thinking is the case.  Right now you're voting Urist for "ignoring you" and an accusation of rolefishing that, as far as I can tell, is a complete invention on your part.  So really, what's your case on him?  Who else do you suspect and why?

[Dariush]

I'm not going to let you guys sit there while the scum is laughing their asses off in their own little corner because their flavor claim has no flaws.

Tsk-tsk-tsk... Ruining one and a half days of unnoticed blending into the background by one epic scumslip? How typically Orangebottley.

Also questioning me my top pick after my reasons for voting Nuke (thus pretty much ignoring D1) shows that you merely care about showing activity instead of actually scumhunting.

Max, how about a replacement notice for Xanatos?

[Urist_McArathos]

No. I'm not. I'm saying that you're rolefishing me. Read it again and come back to me.

Ah, I see now.



No, I'm fucking not.

When I ask why you're so quick to ignore any other possibility, you accuse me of trying to distract you, and use ONE sentence, actually one PHRASE from his role PM to "prove" I'm wasting my time.  When I suggest there could be, you know, a fuckton more there that might be relevant, you freak out, accuse me of trying to rolefish for a cop, and ask why I'm not asking someone else.

You didn't ask me that. No, you asked me, quite specifically:

We know one line from his flavor.

There's a lot of possible solutions to being in pain.  Again, I think assuming that the simple answer that "he just thought he was a jester, and was wrong" might not be the right answer here.  Even if he was wrong and honestly just screwed it up, that doesn't change the fact it apparently WASN'T his wincon...so what would have ended that pain (and therefore fulfilled his wincon)?

And, as I've said before, the only people who could possibly know this are the mod, Zrk2, and a flavor/role cop.

This was a question directed at everyone.  If he was wrong, he still didn't fulfill his wincon by being lynched.  That means he either was a confused townie, OR a different role than jester.  You're assuming he was confused; I'm wanting to find out what could have confused him, or if he was something else.  It's clear we have bits of information about other people in our role PMs, so asking if anyone knows anything is absurd.

I'm a wanderer who just came to town, and yet I still have a fair amount about NUKE and this Simon Heed fellow killed my fiance some time ago.  You expect me to believe, if he was a townie, NOBODY in the village knows ANYTHING about him?  Sure, only the Mod knows precisely all the details, but I'm not going to shrug off investigating why a "townie" would get themselves lynched if they weren't a jester.

That one line was more than enough to clarify why he thought he was a jester. Here's another reason why your questions were pointless: you were speculating about a dead guy's role in a game where little to no actual scumhunting is going on. No, it's mostly flavor hunting, which is a different beast entirely. From the abrupt end of RVS to today, everyone has been flavor hunting, which is largely useless in scumhunting.

Except that's not true.  My flavor in Witches' Coven was plenty of proof I was Scum.  When Dariush tried to lie about being a regular, clean shaven dude renting a room, it was discovered he was a bearded weirdo living in a fucking barn.  This was enough to get him to claim 3rd party, and in turn get Irony lynched, thus depriving both of them of wincons.

One detail: Dariush tried to argue he was clean shaven while living in a barn.  Sure, the scum are trying to blend in NOW, but that doesn't mean that they won't crack when they try to lie about it.  I disagree we've found all we can; while we may need to be very careful not to give away too much to help the scum, I believe we can still find scum if we want to.

I have a feeling this is only happening because of my bragging.

No, my debating the merits of flavor hunting with you happened because of bragging.  This happened because you've acting scummy since then.

[Vector]

Yup.  Orangebottle.

I don't think you're the main scumbag, but I wouldn't put it past you to be third party.

[Orangebottle]

I'm not going to let you guys sit there while the scum is laughing their asses off in their own little corner because their flavor claim has no flaws.

Tsk-tsk-tsk... Ruining one and a half days of unnoticed blending into the background by one epic scumslip? How typically Orangebottley.

Also questioning me my top pick after my reasons for voting Nuke (thus pretty much ignoring D1) shows that you merely care about showing activity instead of actually scumhunting.

Max, how about a replacement notice for Xanatos?

...What scumslip? I don't see it.

Yup.  Orangebottle.

I don't think you're the main scumbag, but I wouldn't put it past you to be third party.

If you expect me to suddenly fold like Xanatos did, you're wrong. I'm not going down without a fight, one that you're clearly losing at this point.
Vector and Dariush:If you don't post vote reasons I have no way of defending myself. And that's just terrible play. I'd also like to note Vector's blatant bandwagoning.

This bugs me.  Why do you think he was a townie?  All we know is that he's not a jester- he didn't flip any sort of a wincon or alignment.

I'll answer your question with another question.
Why would a scum have a vague role PM like that?

Because it's a semi-bastard mod?  Why are you answering questions with WIFOM?[/quote]
Ah, my apologies. We have no reason to think he was anything but a misguided townie yet. As far as the WIFOM goes, I need to think more about what I post.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that despite being flavor-heavy, this is still a game of Mafia. While I used to support flavor hunting, it turns out that it's rather useless. So far we've managed to lynch a townie(I will call him townie until someone can prove otherwise) and hand an easy victory to the Lyncher. Let's do what we do. Scumhunt.

That's great and all, but asking several people their top pick is bottom-grade scumhunting, used when you don't actually have any opinions of your own... which I'm thinking is the case.  Right now you're voting Urist for "ignoring you" and an accusation of rolefishing that, as far as I can tell, is a complete invention on your part.  So really, what's your case on him?  Who else do you suspect and why?

Well, let's see. Vector and Dariush are voting me for what looks like no reason. Probably because they have no reason and they just want me gone.

This was a question directed at everyone.  If he was wrong, he still didn't fulfill his wincon by being lynched.  That means he either was a confused townie, OR a different role than jester.  You're assuming he was confused; I'm wanting to find out what could have confused him, or if he was something else.  It's clear we have bits of information about other people in our role PMs, so asking if anyone knows anything is absurd.

Simple is the only one who had a lot of info about Zrk2 in his PM, but he's no longer here. I don't see anybody else with info on Zrk2.

You keep asking what confused him; Again, I'm going to ask you how anyone besides Zrk2 and Simple would know what his real wincon could possibly be.

I'm a wanderer who just came to town, and yet I still have a fair amount about NUKE and this Simon Heed fellow killed my fiance some time ago.  You expect me to believe, if he was a townie, NOBODY in the village knows ANYTHING about him?  Sure, only the Mod knows precisely all the details, but I'm not going to shrug off investigating why a "townie" would get themselves lynched if they weren't a jester.

Do you know NUKE's wincon? Vector has information on me. Does she know my wincon?
The answer is no.

Except that's not true.  My flavor in Witches' Coven was plenty of proof I was Scum.  When Dariush tried to lie about being a regular, clean shaven dude renting a room, it was discovered he was a bearded weirdo living in a fucking barn.  This was enough to get him to claim 3rd party, and in turn get Irony lynched, thus depriving both of them of wincons.

Why did you find that out? Oh, right. Toaster flavor-inspected Dariush.

One detail: Dariush tried to argue he was clean shaven while living in a barn.  Sure, the scum are trying to blend in NOW, but that doesn't mean that they won't crack when they try to lie about it.  I disagree we've found all we can; while we may need to be very careful not to give away too much to help the scum, I believe we can still find scum if we want to.

For the record: if you find something to flavor hunt that you think will lead you to a liar, then go ahead and follow it. In the meantime, I expect you to be scumhunting.

What have we learned from this?
That I need to stop reading too far into people's posts.
Dariush:
You've been doing incredibly stupid shit all game.
1.

Oooookay. Why exactly do you think this game is going to be a... spiritual successor to WC and that the same strategies are going to apply? Does your role have something to do with witches, Nuke?

My name is Hugo Carpenter, I'm a local drunkard. I spend most of my money and time in Jack's cellar, drinking cheap wine.

Zrk, to be honest I don't particularly like such loads of flavor - it makes people focus too much on those who are seemingly saying too little about their flavors instead of those who act scummy.

That is such a fucking huge leap. Max said, after WC ended, that he was going to make a game as a spiritual successor to WC. How does knowing this make NUKE scummy at all?
But wait. You can't prove that. Because before the game you said:

Is that Witches' Covin parody I see?

which means proving NUKE is scum by this point would also prove that you're scum.
2.

Theories for the lack of NK:

-Native was targetted

-There is no scumteam. More sensible than it sounds, given that Zrk2 and Simple were both third parties, Urist seems to be after 'Simon', and everyone else seems to have a grudge against someone else. My prediction: everyone is a lyncher/jester.

Or else there was an RB, protection, scum may be cult, simply lack an NK or a shitload of other reasons. Why did you choose to pick only the only one that was already stated and a pretty convoluted other one over any other? It is because you're scum, Nuke.

How does this make NUKE scum? It seems pretty out there.

3.

I'm not going to let you guys sit there while the scum is laughing their asses off in their own little corner because their flavor claim has no flaws.

Tsk-tsk-tsk... Ruining one and a half days of unnoticed blending into the background by one epic scumslip? How typically Orangebottley.

Also questioning me my top pick after my reasons for voting Nuke (thus pretty much ignoring D1) shows that you merely care about showing activity instead of actually scumhunting.

Max, how about a replacement notice for Xanatos?

Your reasons for voting NUKE were absolute made up crock that he knocked down in a single post. You never brought them back up. And no, I care about the rest of the town being inactive, because that kills games. Since they weren't really doing anything, I gave them something to do. Where's the scumslip here, Dariush?

[Dariush]

So, your defence consists of an EPIC chainsaw of Nuke, and an OMGUcherry on top. Nice.

That is such a fucking huge leap. Max said, after WC ended, that he was going to make a game as a spiritual successor to WC. How does knowing this make NUKE scummy at all?
But wait. You can't prove that. Because before the game you said:

Is that Witches' Covin parody I see?

which means proving NUKE is scum by this point would also prove that you're scum.

Seriously? Your main argument against me is that I dared to think that we won't be able to simply repeat the same tactics we employed at WC?

And why do you bring all this up only now? You didn't address me in the whole one and a half days of the game, let alone attack or vote me. What changed now?

[Orangebottle]

So, your defence consists of an EPIC chainsaw of Nuke, and an OMGUcherry on top. Nice.

Not my defense. My attack. You gave me nothing to defend myself from.

My point is that the majority of your voting logic is shit,  and the only people you've voted are Nuke, Zrk2, and myself. Your reasons for voting me are really, really, out there, and your reasons for voting NUKE are questionable at best. You've had one legitimate vote all game, and it was on someone who thought he was a Jester.

Also, I can't be chainsawing NUKE because you're not currently attacking him. This accusation is bogus.

Seriously? Your main argument against me is that I dared to think that we won't be able to simply repeat the same tactics we employed at WC?

No. If you had eyes, you'd be able to tell that my main argument against you is that your logic is fucking terrible, yet you're still voting on it.

And why do you bring all this up only now? You didn't address me in the whole one and a half days of the game, let alone attack or vote me. What changed now?

I don't tend to notice things until I notice them.
One such thing I noticed is that you didn't answer any of my questions at all, choosing instead to accuse me of OMGUS and chainsawing. Probably because you know I'm right, and you want me to back off.

[Toaster]

First off, Max:  Vote count?  When does the day end?


Orange:  Oh yeah, you're scum.  You've made the same mistake Nuke caught me with way back in Supernatural 1- you went from waffling about to full-bore attack when someone pointed out your hunting was lax.  You blow up on Dariush right after he votes you, mostly using material that you had already read once.  It wasn't a problem until he attacks you.  Don't give me that line about not noticing things- you needed a case, and you picked an easy mark- something you scum like to do.

[Vector]

I'm not bandwagoning, asshole.  I attacked you yesterday.  The fact that I didn't vote you right away then, having still been on scummy-mc-bastard Xanatos, does not mean that I did not have more than enough reasons already established in-thread.

[Orangebottle]

Orange:  Oh yeah, you're scum.  You've made the same mistake Nuke caught me with way back in Supernatural 1- you went from waffling about to full-bore attack when someone pointed out your hunting was lax.

 
Nearly everybody was waffling about today.

You blow up on Dariush right after he votes you,

Hardly.

mostly using material that you had already read once.

Sure. I'd already read it once. That doesn't mean I'd gone over every detail of every post and analyzed it.

It wasn't a problem until he attacks you.  Don't give me that line about not noticing things- you needed a case, and you picked an easy mark- something you scum like to do.

Toaster, preventing me from telling you the reason I didn't use a case doesn't make your case any more valid, and it doesn't make my case any less valid.

I'm not bandwagoning, asshole.  I attacked you yesterday.  The fact that I didn't vote you right away then, having still been on scummy-mc-bastard Xanatos, does not mean that I did not have more than enough reasons already established in-thread.

You sound worried, Vector.

If you have trouble with me pointing out that you're bandwagoning, why didn't you summarize your case? Why are you writing so angrily, and what makes you think Xanatos was anything other than a newb?

Besides, what are your voting reasons? That I was twiddling my thumbs like everybody else?