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[Max White]

Also, I landed an inspect on MBP back when he was LNCP, so way he can be the lord either.

[Solifuge]

I've been going through the Lurkertracker vote by vote, and stumbled on something. Maybe I'm just really tired, or maybe there's something we don't know about as players, but I think I found a game-breaking error.

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
Azure Sepulchre: Jim Groovester, Leafsnail, Toaster
Jim Groovester: ECrownOfFire, Max White, Solifuge, NUKE9.13
Bdthemag: JoshuaFH

At this point, Nuke9.13 was dead (killed the night prior), yet a vote for Jim was attributed to him. Without this vote, the lynchvote should have been tied, and Jim shouldn't have been killed.

I haven't double-checked to see if the vote attributed to Nuke was actually from someone else... but I thought I'd let Meph know before I go any further through the logs.

[Solifuge]

P.S. If the game is going to continue, no way in hell is there any reason to Shorten right now. I'm putting together a list of votes that may well prove what I've been arguing.

[IronyOwl]

At this point, Nuke9.13 was dead (killed the night prior), yet a vote for Jim was attributed to him. Without this vote, the lynchvote should have been tied, and Jim shouldn't have been killed.

The votecount was off. Toaster had switched from Azure to Jim.

P.S. If the game is going to continue, no way in hell is there any reason to Shorten right now. I'm putting together a list of votes that may well prove what I've been arguing.

Oh good, your list of WIFOM will solve everything. Let's all drag the day out so we can drink lots of wine with Solifuge.

Give me one good reason why it won't be identical to the other baseless bullshit you've been spewing all game. Just kidding, I know you'll ignore this like you've ignored everything you don't like, such as common sense.

[Max White]

I read it as more of a 'Look! I'm town! I'm reading through all the votes looking for clues! You have to listen to me!' sort of plea.

[Solifuge]

I don't like you both bashing logic and reasoning. I don't like you both trying to rush the day. I don't like you both pushing to both lynch a guard, and then kill off 4 players tonight (including Max, who is key in scanning for the Vampire Lord), especially when that could lead to a Scum Victory.

But most of all, I really don't like this buddy-buddy thing the two of you have had lately. You're practically locked in an ouroboros circle-jerk, leaping to eachothers aid, and bashing anyone who speaks differently. One of you is leading the other on; given skill level and past performance, Irony is too good to fall into the buddying trap, while I'm sorry to say that Max is not.

Irony, Toaster is not guaranteed to not be Scum, but I know for a fact that there's a damned Guard, and I'm not going to let you deny that when you have no reason to suspect that there isn't, save for some baseless personal assertion that you just MUST believe to be true. Lately, you've been countering sensible arguments with Assumed Personal Authority alone, as badly as Jim was doing yesterday. You're trying to make facts fit your preconceptions, at the cost of every other possibility. You're not being logical, you're being dogmatic.

[Max White]

Logic and reason out the window? Well I bed to differ.
Seriously, who else is there? MBP and Native were scanned, so they are out. Everybody else has a decent claim. That leaves Bd and Toaster, both with questionable claims. Leaf can't be the lord because he has four people confirming he's claim, and if all five of them were scum we would have lost already. And even if somebody else was the devil who didn't claim because they didn't want the town to not need the deal (That is to say, if they counter claimed, one of them would be lynched, and either they would loose, or the lord would be dead and nobody would take the deal) then they would have claimed today, because I'm taking the deal if we lynch the lord or not.
Because Leaf is confirmed Devil, I trust MBP's angel claim, and I don't think angels would be protecting the vampire lord, thus taking Irony out of the running.

There is nobody left but Toaster and Bd. And seriously, you have been confirmed non-lord since d2, so I don't trust anything you say. The chances of you being converted are astronomical.

That is logic, deal with it.

[Max White]

And seriously, what are the chances that Toaster is not converted by now? He has been left open since d2 at the only thing that can stop a convert, so in the off chance that he isn't the lord, he is still scum. He lynch him, and if somehow he isn't the lord, all it takes is for me to take the deal to send him to hell. I'll use the kill on MBP, so that if he flips scum doc you can lynch lrony, otherwise that is the vampire lord and a minion dead.

[Solifuge]

So why Toaster, who the claims of others have supported, instead of BDthemag, who has lurked, been utterly inactive, skipped several votes, and claims a role that can't be proven, and grants him no benefit given the current Role-Makeup of the game?

You have a Scan, right? Why not give the Devil thing a miss, since that could put us in an instant loss. Use your Scan to check Toaster's role, and lynch Bdthemag, the Lord Suspect who's actually been behaving Scummy.

* Putting final formatting on my votelog post. Damnit this thing took a while.

[Max White]

Toaster hasn't taken the deal, I can't kill him from just taking the deal, but this way I can also take out MBP to show he's alignment.
Killing MBP is because he's wincon revolves around having Irony survive, therefor killing Irony is a needless bitch slap to two players for no good reason, while killing BMP is a bitch slap to none while confirming another player.

Also, what is wrong? Has my logic scared you? Did you just realise that the town has a sure win?

[Solifuge]

You cannot see it, but I am shaking my head.

MBP hasn't accepted the Devil Deal either, so you won't be killing him by taking it; you'd only kill him using the granted Kill action, which could be used on anyone. Moreover, you yourself scanned MBP as a Protector, so you know he's not the Lord. If it turns out that we do need to kill Irony, A lynch still works; though he can make it 1 vote harder, MBP can't prevent a lynch.

In any case, I'd prefer that you, or anyone, didn't accept the deal, and that we keep you around for scanning purposes. Moreover, even on reconsidering it, the Devil Deal is still not a good idea. Scum have supported it in the past (notably Scum Jim agreeing to accept the deal himself), which suggests they have more to gain by it than lose.

[Max White]

Yes, I would be killing him using the granted kill action, who else would you prefer I use it on?
Sure, it doesn't kill Irony, but if MBP flips vampire doctor, he is an easy lynch.

Also, Jim was agreeing to the deal when Toaster was not a part of it.

[Solifuge]

Lynch and Non-Lynch Votes, in order cast, sorted by day:
Red     - Definite Cultist
Orange  - Known Future, and possibly Present Cultist
Default - Potential Cultist
Green   - Definite Townie

Spoiler: Day 1 (click to show/hide)

Possible cultists (2): (1 Lord:?, 1 Slave:Dariush)
Dead Players: (14/14 Remaining, 12 Town)
- None

Lynch-Votes:
Post  Player     Role          Lynched           Reasoning
#194  JimGroove  Dreamwalker   Solifuge(Priest)  "Lurking, hasn't answered my quesions", borrows Toaster's scumtell: "Soli copied Max's argument." Switched from emphatic case on Irony which was "doing no good", to ensure lynch on Soli. More here.
#205  Bdthemag   ? (Knight)    Solifuge(Priest)  "Not scumhunting, playing, or addressing questions. Taking random stabs." Switches from emphatic case on Max to ensure Soli lynch. More here.
#266  Leafsnail  ? (Devil)     Solifuge(Priest)  "Lurking and letting Bdthemag lynch go ahead". Duplicate of Jim Groovester- "Soli copied Max's argument.". Also switched from emphatic case on Irony (led by Jim), to ensure lynch on Soli. More here.
#267  Nuke9.13   Witch         Solifuge(Priest)  "Play or die."
#276  Dariush    Vamp.Slave    Solifuge(Priest)  "Lurking, generally useless." Verbatim Quote: "Uhh... whatever, let's go with Solifuge for now."
#288  JoshuaFH   ? (Priest)    Solifuge(Priest)  No argument or case. Tie-breaker vote to ensure Town doesn't no-lynch. Appology for inactivity. More here.

Non-Lynch Votes:
Post  Player     Role          Voted             Reasoning
#179  Toaster    ? (Guard)     Bdthemag(Knight?) "Over-emotional response to weak pressure." Switches from case on Max; "Though he's buddying, Max does that as Town". More here.
#207  MBP        ? (G.Angel)   Bdthemag(Knight?) "Trying to look active, bandwagoning, strong self-conviction that collapses when challenged, copies Jim's argument." More here.
#234  Crown      Warlock       Bdthemag(Knight?) "Having a case based on use of smilies is scummy, as is going after someone for helping a claimed newbie." Appologized for inactivity.
#257  Jokerman   Townsperson   Nuke(Witch)       "Bandwagoning, hypocritical, not as sharp as usual" Appology for playing slopily and semi-inactivity.
#259  MaxWhite   ? (F.Teller)  Bdthemag(Knight?) "Not playing, answering questions, giving appearance of activity" Switches from Lurker-Vote on Soli because "it's doing no good."
#281  Solifuge   Priest        Abstain           "Not able to read thread, didn't want to leave vote hanging".

Not Voting:
NativeForiegner, (Sexton?)
IronyOwl, (Witch?)

Spoiler: Day 2 (click to show/hide)

Possible cultists (3): (1 Lord:?, 1 Slave:Dariush, 1 Slave:[Jim/Nuke/?])
Dead Players: (14/14 Remaining, ~11 Town)
- None

Lynch-Votes:
Post  Player     Role          Lynched           Reasoning
#322  Toaster    ? (Guard)     Dariush(V.Slave)  "We should all vote Dariush until he explains lack of NK while I roleblocked him". Claims Max is scummy for setting up future lynch on Josh.
#406  Jokerman   Townsperson   Dariush(V.Slave)  "Policyvote; roleblock with no kill, plus illogical flailing at case against him." Switch from Nuke. Called Jim on eagerness to kill Max.
#446  Solifuge   Priest        Dariush(V.Slave)  "Why is Max/Crown case in center, when Dariush was roleblocked, with no kill?" Continued case against Jim.
#459  MaxWhite   ? (F.Teller)  Dariush(V.Slave)  "I can go along with Dariush" Bandwagons, and apologizing to Dariush. Claimed voting Josh was getting nowhere.
#470  Nuke9.13   ? Vamp.Witch  Dariush(V.Slave)  "Roleblocker hypothesis" Split post with #472. Claims Dariush and Crown are ObvScum and should die, while Josh and Max are Dumb Town.
#474  JoshuaFH   ? (Priest)    Dariush(V.Slave)  No reasoning. Switched case from Max, agreeing that Dariush was scummier.
#475  Crown      Warlock       Dariush(V.Slave)  "Blocked while there was no kill" Terse, sudden vote switch from Max to Dariush.

Non-Lynch Votes:
Post  Player     Role          Voted             Reasoning
#336  Bdthemag   ? (Knight)    Crown(Warlock)    "Town Warlock doubtful." Defends Dariush; "Others are rolefishing him." Fishes for Toaster's Roleblocker role; asks if can talk with target.
#371  Dariush    Vamp.Slave    Max(F.Teller?)    Heavy WIFOM. Weak defense of Josh vs. Max. FoS Nuke & Toaster, says lynch Soli & Irony, calls Leafsnail on "scumteam knowledge". More here.
#394  Leafsnail  ? (Devil)     Crown(Warlock)    "Too eager to confirm self via Soli, and seemed to know he would Res." Paired with weak attack on Dariush.
#416  MBP        ? (G.Angel)   Crown(Warlock)    "Activelurker, over-reacts, asked Soli to confirm" Noted own bandwagoning. Called Bdthemag on weak bandwagoning, and ignoring own questions.
#435  Native     ? (Sexton)    Crown(Warlock)    "Overreacting to pressure, kneejerk roleclaim/confirmation-seeking" Extends 1 day from deadline, to get caught up. Defended Dariush, saying Scum Cult explains no kill.
#452  JimGroove  ? Vamp.Dream. Crown(Warlock)    "You win the contest for whether you or MaxWhite are scummiest". Last-minute switch from case on Irony, for second time.

Not Voting:
IronyOwl, (Witch?)

Spoiler: Day 3 (click to show/hide)

Possible cultists (3): (1 Lord:?, 2 Slaves:Jim/Nuke/?)
Dead Players: (13/14 Remaining, ~10 Town)
- Dariush (Vamp.Slave), Lynched by: Toaster, Jokerman, Solifuge, Max, Nuke, Josh, Crown

Lynch-Votes:
Post  Player     Role          Lynched           Reasoning
#530  MaxWhite   ? (F.Teller)  Jokerman(Townie)  "Game has gone stagnant." Pressure vote to discourage lurking, asks for scum suspects. Post split with #535; "He's potential Lord, and lurking hardest". Paired with shaky argument that Native is Cult for saying Max was town. More here.
#555  Toaster    ? (Guard)     Jokerman(Townie)  No reasons until #568; "Lurking, empty words when posting". Paired with FoS on Jim; "Lacks solid reasoning; anemic scumhunting, hunting newbies."
#574  JoshuaFH   ? (Priest)    Jokerman(Townie)  Verbatim: "I think you're the cult leader. My gut can churn that out." Apologizes for lack of activity/investment in game, again.

Non-Lynch Votes:
Post  Player     Role          Voted             Reasoning
#557  NUKE9.13   Vamp.Witch?   UNVOTE            Called out by Toaster on voting Crown, who couldn't possibly be Lord. Paired with asserting; "Bdthemag is definitely not the Lord, since CoF was voting for him".
#558  JimGroove  ? Vamp.Dream. Max(F.Teller?)    "Playing belligerantly, votes based on speculation, and doesn't list vote-reasoning." Mentions that an inexperienced Lord is likely, but with shakey logic. Suggests lynching strong players, as likely conversion targets. Switches from strong case on Bdthemag to vote Max. More here.
#560  Solifuge   Priest        Crown(Warlock)    Leftover pressure vote. Stated limited internet connectivity, inactive for rest of day.
#593  Leafsnail  ? (Devil)     NUKE(Vamp.Witch?) "Contradicting self, voting for Bdthemag while condemning others for voting inactive Bdthemag, who can't fight back" Attacks Jim for attacking newbies, who can't properly fight back. States will be absent for near future.
#613  Crown      Warlock       NUKE(Vamp.Witch?) "Votes Bdthemag, but condemns others for voting Bdthemag." Semi-OMGUS for Nuke's case against him.
#623  IronyOwl   ? (Witch)     Bdthemag(Knight?) "Predecessor scummy; he followed suit." A last-minute "I guess" vote. Split with #622; Jokerman looking town, esp. early-game. More Here.

Not Voting:
Jokerman-EXE, Townsperson
MysteriousBluePuppet, (Guardian Angel?)
NativeForiegner, (Sexton?)
Bdthemag, (Knight?)

Spoiler: Day 4 (click to show/hide)

Possible cultists (3): (1 Lord:?, 1 Slave:Jim, 1 Slave:?)
Dead Players: (11/14 Remaining ~8 Town)
- Dariush (Vamp.Slave), Lynched by: Toaster, Jokerman, Solifuge, Max, Nuke, Josh, Crown
- Jokerman (Townsperson), Lynched by: Josh, Max, Toaster
- Nuke9.13 (Vamp.Witch), Devil-NKed by Crown

Lynch-Votes:
Post  Player     Role          Lynched           Reasoning
#695  Solifuge   Priest        Jim(Vamp.Dream.)  "Overly safe Scum-Claim, easy to fake. Bristling and arguing without logic." Switched from Leafsnail vote, based on coming up Changer. Paired with discussion of merits/dangers of the Devil Deal.
#771  MaxWhite   ? (F.Teller)  Jim(Vamp.Dream.)  "Potential lord, leading town with insult and authority instead of logic. Easily-faked claim. Defended Dariush D2, pushing Crown mislynch."
#773  Crown      Warlock       Jim(Vamp.Dream.)  Blatant bandwagon; no reasoning. Switch from MBP "Just because I can". Implies complacency in Devil Deal going through, and him dying.
#792  Toaster    ? (Guard)     Jim(Vamp.Dream.)  "Following up on promised tiebreaker vote on Jim" Split with #791. Ask Soli what caused change in support for Devil Deal. Called Irony, Bdthemag, and MBP on non-voting.

Non-Lynch Votes:
Post  Player     Role          Voted             Reasoning
#667  JoshuaFH   ? (Priest)    Bdthemag(Knight?) "Didn't reveal presence of Devil after accepted deal; must have ulterior motive for this."
#717  JimGroove  Vamp.DreamW.  Native(Sexton?)   Blatant bandwagon; no reasoning given. Agrees with Irony in #716; give Devil Deal to scummy players (here, himself); though it enables them to kill Town, "it's a fair trade".
#733  Leafsnail  ? (Devil)     Native(Sexton?)   No argument; blatant bandwagoning. Paired with "I don't see how a Devil could become a Vampire."
#751  IronyOwl   ? (Witch?)    UNVOTE            "Oh shit..." Split with #750. Switch from voting Native. Response to being called out by Soli; unlikely Lord vote, on player who hadn't logged into Forum for 2 game-days. Placed no vote afterward. More here.

Not Voting:
MysteriousBluePuppet, (Guardian Angel?)
NativeForiegner, (Sexton?)
Bdthemag, (Knight?)

Spoiler: Day 5 - INCOMPLETE (intended for reference) (click to show/hide)

Possible cultists (3): (1 Lord:?, 2 Slaves:?/?)
Dead Players: (10/14 Remaining ~7 Town)
- Dariush (Vamp.Slave), Lynched by: Toaster, Jokerman, Solifuge, Max, Nuke, Josh, Crown
- Jokerman (Townsperson), Lynched by: Josh, Max, Toaster
- Nuke9.13 (Vamp.Witch), Devil-NKed by Crown
- JimGroovestar (Vamp.Dreamwalker), Lynched by: Crown, Solifuge, Max, Toaster

There you go, my Magnum Opus for this game. It's a rundown of lynchvotes since Day 1, with player-names updated for their current replacements, and color-coded for who was confirmed or possible scum for every vote. I've reported only what players state, confirm, or acknowledge in their vote post. If something appears subjective, I've added a link to their vote-post, so you can see where I get their reasoning from, and can make the decision for yourself. If there's no link, the post number is there; look it up.

I'm too damned tired to do a full analysis of this data now... this took way too much time to assemble and format. Extend, and I'll be back tomorrow. In the meantime, look over who was confirmed Scum, who they voted for, and which possible scum voted with them.

Given my current suspicions, I'd encourage folks to look at:
1) IronyOwl: Only voted for 1 of 4 days. Only vote was a last-minute vote which he gave near no argument for. Unvoted rather than voting for JimGroovester Day 4, gave no new vote. Currently buddying, gunning for active players instead of scummy players, arguing based on personal authority and dogma rather than logic and observation, trying to get Toaster (Guard) and Max White (Fortune Teller) killed off, and proposing that Town accepts Devil Deal which will kill 4 players, and nigh-guarantee a Scum Victory.
2) Bdthemag: D1 he abandoned his case to ensure a lynch would happen, D2 defended Scum, hypocritically rolefished while decrying rolefishing, and seemed worried that Toaster could chat with those he protected. Hasn't cast a vote, instead lurking since then.

EDIT: Fixed minor formatting problem. This thing has a lot of formatting. Deal with it.

[Toaster]

Irony:

Oh, right.

Why are you so willing to trust Max?  There's no reason he couldn't have been converted, and it's reasonably possible that he's the lord.  You're willing to follow his lead into oblivion when there's no real reason to do so.  Think for yourself for once.


Max:  Why so willing to shoot someone you think isn't the lord?

[Leafsnail]

Ok, got it.
We lynch Toaster. When he flips lord:
Leaf gives me the deal.
I use it to kill Soli
Toaster is lynched, Soli is killed, Crown is sent to hell, Leaf has won
Four scum dead in one day/night phase.

Sounds good.  Toaster.  Should I offer you the kill if Toaster doesn't flip Lord, too?

You're trying so hard to appear like a Devil, I simply don't believe your claim.

This is the first time I've seen the "too townie" fallacy applied to a third party.  It's still a fallacy.

To add to that, you provide yet more flavor as your ONLY defense. Why have you not been hung yet?

It's extremely strong flavour.  It's like saying that a cop inspecting you as town is "just flavour".  Certainly you haven't attempted to explain how my three cards correspond to Vampire Lord at all (or attempted to provide an argument that Mephansteras is also on my team and trying to make me look like a Devil for some reason).  I guess you could say that Max White was converted to my team, but then I would've had to convert the Devil, Max White and Nuke on the first 3 nights.  And got Max to put me in extreme danger.

Incidentally, the deal-that-will-kill-four-players will kill Bdthemag (who you've got down as almost certainly scum and who is, as you say, a very clear vampire lord candidate who you for some reason want to waste a lynch on), Max (who you think is scum and is a vampire lord candidate), <insert additional vampire lord/ slave candidate here> and that shining bastion of towniness CoF.  It'll also show us who the devil is (hint: me) once and for all and remove them from the game.