Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[hemmingjay]

yes it does change things. By default skills are locked to certain slots, but you can unlock that and put almost any skill anywhere, opening up your available options quite a bit.

[fenrif]

But it doesn't change the actuall skills? Does that mean that diablo 2's skills would be multiplied by every key on the keyboard?

[hemmingjay]

Fenrif, enable elective mode and try it yourself. I can't be any more clear with words, let your experience be the teacher that I cannot.

By default your character build options are fairly linear and limited, by enabling elective mode you can now put offensive skills in the tactics slot, or go all offensive skills, etc. It IMMENSELY opens up your options and thus theorycrafting. I am not talking about keybinding, I am talking about skill selection.

[nenjin]

In elective mode there are 756 different active skill combinations for every class (126 skills X 6 Slots)... and that's not including any passive combinations added in. There are 42 passive skill combinations for each class (14 Skills X 3 slots). And yes most runes turn skills into a completely different thing so they do count.

756 x 42 =  31752 possible skill combinations for every class.

Care to run the iterations of class possibilities in D2? Because I guarantee you it will crush what D3 is offering.

D3 amounts to a 3x3 grid of holes in a piece of wood. And your skills are wooden pegs you stick in the holes. The only people that obsess over "a build" are going to be the hyper anal-retentive ones that think the choice between 220% weapon damage or 140% weapon damage and knockback is an earth-shattering decision.

So yeah. 31,752 combinations. Of which, maybe only 200 you'll ever actually consider using. Because a Monk with 5 spirit building attacks, that'll surely work. Just going on that class, there are already 5 abilities I a) don't use and b) find boring as hell to being with.

And on that note, I'm making the stupid discussion.

[fenrif]

Fenrif, enable elective mode and try it yourself. I can't be any more clear with words, let your experience be the teacher that I cannot.

Elective mode just lets you rebind skills to another button though? Unless it's changed drastically since the beta? Is rebinding controls now considered a meaningfull player decision? :S

[nenjin]

I guess it is in the context of not being able to rebind anything at all. :|

[forsaken1111]

I guess it is in the context of not being able to rebind anything at all. :|

For example, with the wizard by default you can only have one of the signature spells assigned to the left mouse button and you could only assign one of the active spells to the right mouse button and only one defensive spell to the 1 key. Once you have frost nova assigned to 1, you cannot use diamond skin or slow time. at all.

By enabling elective mode you basically take off the training wheels. It allows you to assign any spell to any button.

These are not extra 'builds'. Its just the ability to configure it however you like. There are no 'build's' in this game because you are not locked into any skill choices.

[hemmingjay]

Fenrif, enable elective mode and try it yourself. I can't be any more clear with words, let your experience be the teacher that I cannot.

Elective mode just lets you rebind skills to another button though? Unless it's changed drastically since the beta? Is rebinding controls now considered a meaningfull player decision? :S

No, it allows you to enable active skills that are by default limited. for example, by default you can have a defensive, a strategic, and an offensive skill(limited for the argument). Elective mode allows you to put almost any skill into those active skill slots instead of limiting.

SUPER SIMPLE explanation: By default the game forces some semblance of balanced skill selections, where with elective mode you can make some extreme choices or selections that fit your play style better.

[SalmonGod]

So basically exactly what nenjin said... it's only meaningful in the context that it actually allows you to use all of the stuff you put points in with one keybinding set-up... it's meaningful in the sense that you are actually allowed to let go of the hand that holds you under the assumption that you are too computer illiterate to click a box on the UI and then select an option from a pop-up menu (which is how every other game in the genre sets up their controls without issue, accomplishing exactly what you're describing with elective mode by default)

Am I missing something?  This isn't me trying to put down the game, honestly.  This is me trying to understand why this matters, or how it amounts to variety in actual gameplay as compared to other games in the genre.

[nenjin]

monks in pvp

I expect when Blizz rolls out PvP, PvP focused-stats will come, just like they did with WoW arenas.

So stun resistance, crit resistance, heal debuffs and the like. Bleeding also seems to be dramatically under-represented in the game right now, so I expect that will change too.

I see Monks struggling against any ranged class that can stay farther away than the range of Dashing Strike. I can see WD being a major problem for monks because they can effectively surround them in endless waves of shit.

By default the game forces some semblance of balanced skill selections, where with elective mode you can make some extreme choices or selections that fit your play style better.

The only reason for this is because of class-based resources and the need to explain them to players. It makes no sense to try and sell elective mode as offering more customization when it's the default level of customization anyone with opposable thumbs should expect from a video game.

[hemmingjay]

I didn't say it's offering something new or wonderful, just that those who are unable or unwilling to use it are limited in their understanding of the game. I am not going to continue to explain how those bashing the game are doing so without understanding it. Frankly, I was trying to do a service to those who are on the fence about buying it by offering information from someone playing and enjoying it. I'm going to go back into the game because this verbal roundabout if nowhere near as entertaining as the game. Enjoy whatever game you do like, or bashing games you don't.

[Neonivek]

And I don't mean any offense, but make sure you're not conflating "change" with "bad".

I never do

Enjoy whatever game you do like, or bashing games you don't.

Or like myself I can bash games I like and give compliments to those I do not.

I don't believe in pandering to a game just because you like it.

So yeah. 31,752 combinations. Of which, maybe only 200 you'll ever actually consider using

Less. A lot of classes even have single abilities soo good that there will never be a point where removing it is advisable. Plus some abilities have damage increases but they don't tell you. Or they switch elements and don't tell you.

[nenjin]

For the monk its especially telling, since the vast majority of their abilities take Spirit and there's very few ways you can make 4 spirit consumers and 1 spirit builder work. You end up defaulting to 1 or 2 primary spirit consumers. Maybe once you've maxed out all this stuff you can get the "regenerate spirit on damage" so you can spam all your abilities back to back. Right now, though, you can't make room for all the attacks and abilities the game offers you, even in elective mode. 

[Sirian]

I really can't understand how some people have finished the game in several difficulty modes already. I've started playing a few days late but i'm still in Act 1. We must be playing very differently.

Also, I changed my wizard skills a lot over time, and realized that while some of my previous skills seemed mandatory, they could actually be replaced by some other spells very effectively. And whoever thinks that runes make no difference is very wrong. Sure, some of them are not game-changers, though useful, but some others change completely how you use the skill and turn a mediocre skill into a mass murder tool.

Right now (i'm still low level), i'm using frost ray with extra slow for single targets (pretty high damage, and very easy to kite with the slow), Arcane torrent for tough monsters (high dps, long range with some aoe), Frost Nova with shatter (Freeze everything in an aoe, and then creates a new Freeze aoe when one of the frozen mobs is killed), and probably my best skill is the one that sends three bolts of electricity in front of you, with the first rune (killed mobs explode). While i hated this skill at first, it's incredibly good against packs of mobs, especially if some of them have low hp. I was in spider-infested caves earlier, and all of the small spider pack that went after me died with just one use of this skill.

Not only is it free (no arcane cost), it also comboes with Frost nova if you're facing tougher monsters. Initiate with the nova, then spam the electricity and it creates a chain reaction. And it's also super good against small highly mobile monsters (like those sorta annoying green frogs jumping all around in act1).

[nenjin]

Runes change how abilities work, but they don't totally upend them. For the monk, there are literally abilities that say something to the effect of "this attack now does 220% damage instead of 180%." The Trident Rune didn't change how I used that punch at all, it just made that punch hit stuff on my flanks. Is that cool? Sure. Does it feel like I made a real choice? No, it honestly doesn't.