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Author Topic: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread  (Read 870059 times)

Realmfighter

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #10665 on: January 31, 2012, 09:40:18 am »

1,2,3-For (Insert reason here) any logical "I need this to live" reason for stealing no longer exists. Therefore anyone who steals cannot justify this with the "I need this to live" I brought up. So then every time you rob from someone it'sharmful and unjustifiable.

Well yeah. If someone gets a DUI they're not doing it with murder in their hearts. Their doing it with a massive lack of common sense and empathy. This is just as much as a problem as willful violence.
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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #10666 on: January 31, 2012, 09:46:31 am »

My own view on the prison system has to start with one of my favourite articles on drug peace so far. In particular, this passage;
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Fourth, all drug control policies, including enforcement, should be subjected to cost-benefit tests: We should act only when we can do more good than harm, not merely to express our righteousness. Since lawbreakers and their families are human beings, their suffering counts, too: Arrests and prison terms are costs, not benefits, of policy. Policymakers should learn from their mistakes and abandon unsuccessful efforts, which means that organizational learning must be built into organizational design. In drug policy as in most other policy arenas, feedback is the breakfast of champions.
I think you can expand this even more broadly, incorporating the concept into at least all non-violent crime.

Imprisoning someone always has a negative cost both to the individual and to society at large. The current justice system does not take that into account at all, treating it as a net positive for society (criminals off the street, regardless of if it's necessary or not) and ignoring any cost to the prisoner themselves (after all, they deserve it...). A custodial sentence should be strongly justified by the realities of the situation, not just the crime committed.

The problem is that for this to work you would need judges and prosecutors who took the same view. Those are the positions where discretion lies and any such system would rest strongly on liberal discretion being applied. In particular sentencing guidelines would need to be opened up to allow for a wider range of situations to be covered by a wider range of punishments. Narrow guidelines (and especially mandatory minimums) result in absurd results and more time behind bars than could ever make sense. But abolishing them means putting a lot of power into the judges' hands. Simply reviewing sentencing guidelines and not changing anything else would have a completely unpredictable effect as each judge applies their own views to the new situation. However, new guidelines intending to tie their hands and make them all progressive liberals would likely be just as problematic.

To crime prevention I have my own thoughtsTM, especially with the UK/US comparison. But broadly I don't think those alone solve the problems in the USA. The prison/crime feedback loop is far too entrenched. Focusing more on prevention alongside prison reform makes sense and is broadly the only way you could do such reform, but without the prison reform I would expect it to fail, hard. Practically and politically.
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Nadaka

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #10667 on: January 31, 2012, 11:28:03 am »

To continue the trend of me for some reason pointing to gender issues or women in sports...

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/training-day/201201/college-footballs-strongest-cheerleader

UGA chearleader turns down fitness modeling career to avoid the mandatory legal steroid use.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/seven-old-anna-kimball-kicked-off-baseball-team-211302532.html

This one isn't as positive as most of the ones I have posted, a 7 year old girl gets kicked off a little league baseball team because the coach wants to move to a more competitive league in a few years. And that league does not allow girls.
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trees

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #10668 on: January 31, 2012, 04:30:53 pm »

Interesting article, palsch. Thank you for sharing.

Something odd (and potentially problematic) from Canada's newest Identity Screening Regulations concerning airplane boarding (PDF):

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5.2 (1) An air carrier shall not transport a passenger if …
(c) the passenger does not appear to be of the gender indicated on the identification he or she presents
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penguinofhonor

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #10669 on: January 31, 2012, 04:36:34 pm »

Yeah, I read a bit about that, Trees. Is there really that much of a problem with, say, me dressing up as a girl and getting on a plane? I don't feel like that's a terrorist threat or anything, so I'm not sure why that's even in the law.
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trees

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #10670 on: January 31, 2012, 04:45:23 pm »

It's supposed to catch people using false identification, I guess? It's listed alongside similar things concerning age and what they look like in the photograph. Especially when considering the difficulties of legally having your sex change recognized (in Canada, you must have gotten reassignment surgery to get it changed on your ID, which not every trans person is willing or able to do), it seems like it'll cause a lot more harm than good.
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Descan

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #10671 on: January 31, 2012, 04:45:56 pm »

I know the woman who posted a blog post on that. Well, one that got mentioned by Justin Trudeau so it's not like "I know someone who has a blog!" :P
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G-Flex

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #10672 on: January 31, 2012, 05:09:47 pm »

It's supposed to catch people using false identification, I guess? It's listed alongside similar things concerning age and what they look like in the photograph. Especially when considering the difficulties of legally having your sex change recognized (in Canada, you must have gotten reassignment surgery to get it changed on your ID, which not every trans person is willing or able to do), it seems like it'll cause a lot more harm than good.

Yeah. This is one of those cases where I can completely understand why the policy exists, if only because they haven't thought of the unintended consequences.

Also:
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(in Canada, you must have gotten reassignment surgery to get it changed on your ID, which not every trans person is willing or able to do)

Isn't this the exact problem people have been talking about recently with regard to Sweden?
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trees

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #10673 on: January 31, 2012, 05:32:23 pm »

Isn't this the exact problem people have been talking about recently with regard to Sweden?

It's similar. As far as I can tell from some cursory research, Sweden specifically requires sterilization and not reassignment surgery.

Sweden also requires the individual being single/divorced, though, and that's REALLY dumb.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #10674 on: January 31, 2012, 07:02:20 pm »

I think it's because Sweden used to have a eugenics program focused around the "voluntary" sterilization of "deviants", and this is one of the last remnants of it.
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Epithemius

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #10675 on: February 01, 2012, 09:28:48 pm »

If I could take a guess, I'd say it's mostly due to the Stephen Harper's (our Prime Minister, leading the Conservative Party) majority and their general center-right stance. I'm somewhat fearful of what this majority means for Canada. I mean, we're supposed to be accepting all people, and I see little to no benefit to allow something like this. It could be the first of many changes to Canada.
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Descan

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #10676 on: February 01, 2012, 09:38:54 pm »

"It is important to note that these regulations are not actually a piece of legislation, which would have had to pass through readings and votes in the House and Senate (which is probably why it went unnoticed until now). Rather, the Identity Screening Regulations are a set of rules implemented unilaterally by the Ministry of Transportation, as part of Canada’s so-called Passenger Protect, which is essentially the Canadian Federal Government’s equivalent to the U.S.’s “no-fly” list.

Minister of Transportation Denis Lebel is, of course, a federal Conservative MP appointed to the cabinet position by Stephen Harper."

So uh, yeah. Nothing to do with the majority of Stephen Harper, but rather his appointment of this Lebel guy.
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Epithemius

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #10677 on: February 01, 2012, 09:44:00 pm »

I apologize, this is just awful wording of mine. I meant that under the Conservatives in general, Canada is doing things exactly like this.
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Descan

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #10678 on: February 01, 2012, 09:51:56 pm »

Oh, I agree. Just clarifying <3
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Epithemius

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #10679 on: February 01, 2012, 09:53:02 pm »

It seems my articulation kind of goes away when I'm typing; I'm slightly more coherent in person.
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