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[Rose]

Or if there was a simple surgery for increasing height.

There is that, actually.

[Heron TSG]

If there was a way to get "muscle implants", I can guarantee you men would be ALL OVER that shit.

That's a strange concept, but would have some important implications. Either they're not contractile at all and don't add anything, or they do work with the existing muscles, and suddenly you just have to do some stitching to create superhumanly strong people.

http://news.yahoo.com/why-gay-parents-may-best-parents-131902676.html

Look at all the bigoted comments....

The things people will say when they have a computer screen to hide behind. Haters gonna hate.

Or if there was a simple surgery for increasing height.

Well, it's pretty simple already, it just takes a while. They just break your legs, splint you up, and let the bones grow in a little longer each time. Incredibly painful, but I've heard of people doing it for stuff like meeting height requirements for jobs.

[Bauglir]

Yeah, I'm more on board with the second article. Not because it's more diplomatic, but because there are differences that it points out that are relevant to the analogy. And the argument that no woman could ever decide that it suits her own aesthetics to have larger breasts irks me a bit, though I would certainly agree that the vast majority are probably seeking it as a result of social conditioning to meet unhealthy standards. And, as the second article concludes, the parallels that exist are definitely worth considering, because there are a great many cases where breast implants are attempts to box women into an arbitrary definition of what they ought to be, and those are no less wrong because of situations where they are a choice on the woman in question's part.

Or, short version, it's complicated, but I'd agree that the social trends that currently support a great part of the implant industry are Bad Things.

EDIT: GlyphGryph

One thing I'd like to point out is that while women may have more freedom in style of dress, I've noticed that there is also a pressure to use that freedom. I'm not sure if that's actually freedom, but it seems like the standard they're held to just involves a greater deal of variety than men (which is problematic given the cost of clothes, to be honest). You've already, if I read your post right, addressed the importance of the difference between "Dress like X" and "Be shaped like X" as pressures, though, but it's a really significant one that is worth mentioning again in this sentence.

[GlyphGryph]

Since a big part of guys being sexy is them also being STRONG, I imagine you'd need them to work to a certain extent to be popular. Although as long as they didn't make you weaker, the sculpted ones would probably have some popularity. Especially if they were still visible despite a bit of fat - a real-life six pack is really hard to pull off!

And of course it couldn't be obvious - a man admitting he needed surgery would be a terrible sign of weakness, while a woman getting a boob job does not undergo anywhere near the same level of social derision a muscle implant would entail.

[Nadaka]

There are "muscle implants" but no one uses them because they only make bulges, ones that tend to drift, rather than increase your strength.

[Vector]

while a woman getting a boob job does not undergo anywhere near the same level of social derision a muscle implant would entail.

For women, it's more about the problem of people thinking of them (as a person) as fake or inauthentic.


Sorry for those articles, by the way--it was 5 AM or something and my judgment/reading comprehension had fallen asleep a few hours ago.

[GlyphGryph]

Which is still accompanied with a good deal of social derision, especially in certain circles, but there's a bit of social prestige to it as well, and it is nowhere near as derisive as it would be for a guy who got fake, nonfunctional muscles implanted.

Actually... wasn't there a problem with a bunch of guys getting some sort of injection to make their muscles look bigger? But it was very temporary and pretty dangerous or something? I may just be imagining that, though.

[Vector]

Which is still accompanied with a good deal of social derision, especially in certain circles, but there's a bit of social prestige to it as well, and it is nowhere near as derisive as it would be for a guy who got fake, nonfunctional muscles implanted.

Yeah, that's the thing.  I sort of feel like there's a strong double-standard for women and a strong single standard for men, so even though women end up pretty much being critiqued no matter what they do (notoriously violently), and even though there's a lot of space "off-standard" for men to sort of hide out and feel good about themselves, the stuff that men really can't get away with is marked by its black/white zone of policing.

[Pnx]

Which is still accompanied with a good deal of social derision, especially in certain circles, but there's a bit of social prestige to it as well, and it is nowhere near as derisive as it would be for a guy who got fake, nonfunctional muscles implanted.

Yeah, that's the thing.  I sort of feel like there's a strong double-standard for women and a strong single standard for men, so even though women end up pretty much being critiqued no matter what they do (notoriously violently), and even though there's a lot of space "off-standard" for men to sort of hide out and feel good about themselves, the stuff that men really can't get away with is marked by its black/white zone of policing.

I sort of get the sentiment you're trying to express, but I'm not really sure what exactly it is you're trying to say.

[Truean]

Real simple:

If you're ok with who you are, then you can't be sold crappy products which promise to "fix" you. This of course means you won't be buying them which means someone isn't making money off you.

Thus, there's TONS of stuff wrong with you, and for an unreasonable price we'll tell you we'll fix it but we won't. 'Cause, even assuming it really was wrong with you, if we fix it then we won't make repeat sales.

[Vector]

I think that the things that men and women receive extreme policing for are different, and I think that men's problems can tend to look really shocking because there's not as large a range of things that are just "dude not okay go fix it you're damaged."

Sorry, I'm thinking in pictures.  One is a black circle, filled in with clear edges, and one is a black circle with a distinctive halo radiating out of it.  I don't know if that will help anyone, but that's my visual representation of the problem.

[Heron TSG]

Spoiler: I think I got this. (click to show/hide)

Where within each box, black is 'okay', and white is not?

[Descan]

Yeah. You go to a gay hub, of pretty much any kind, and if you aren't a "cute little boy" or an adonis of manly muscle, you will be openly mocked and derided. Clear cut, you must fit this or you are worthless.

Needless to say, I don't fit "this".

[Pnx]

Hmmm, to fall into my inevitable roll of counter-advocate (why must I always try to argue with everyone?), I'd say this ties into the fact that women are allowed to do more "male" things, than men are allowed to do "female" things.

To name an example, what do you call a woman who has more masculine habits? A tomboy.
What do you call a man who has more feminine habits? A sissy.

Then there's lesbians and gay men, I've often noted that lesbians are better accepted than gay guys are.

[ChairmanPoo]

Then there's lesbians and gay men, I've often noted that lesbians are better accepted than gay guys are.

That's because of arousement factor, I gather.

It wasn't always like that, either. In past times, they were even more hated than gay men, IIRC.