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[micelus]

Um, yes we are. We're a bit different, but we are.

[Dutchling]

But more seriously, Catholicism isn't a Christian sect-

...Uhh, yes it is?

Probably a misunderstanding between the English word sect and the Dutch word sekte.

I wasn't talking about Catholics being Christian or not.

[Sheb]

Yeah, in French too, a "secte" is more like a cult. Like Scientology or something.

Also, Dutchling, Orthodox can marry.

[MonkeyHead]

Even in English the word is weighted towards the more controversial and unorthadox faiths...

[Dutchling]

Yes, that's the word I 'thought' I read.

And it also seemed as if Frumple was talking about cults in his post to me anyway.

[ggamer]

I believe the confusion comes from wording. Catholicism is a "sect", but we use the word "Denomination".

I've actually been learning about this, so i'm rather excited.

So for the longest time there was just one Christianity. then, around the time of the Byzantine empire, shit began to go down. The Eastern church believed that using Iconography was idol worship, while the western (Papal states?) believed that it was perfectly fine to use Icons to direct worship. Thus, in around the mid 700's, the christian faith split into two denominations: The Eastern Orthodox church and the Western Catholic church.

Both denominations split down further due to political (for Eastern Orthodox) and Ideological (For Western Catholic church) reasons. This left us with the Eastern Christians being Greek, Russian, etc. orthodox faiths, the Western Christians being the Catholics and the Protestants.

@Truean:

Y'know, I don't see homosexuality as any bigger of a sin than any other. Saying Homosexuals are ruining the world is like saying people who eat too much or people who steal pens are ruining the world. God still doesn't hate these people, but gives them every chance of forgiveness. While I'd like to clarify more on that, i'm not a scholar, and can't directly interpret what god really says on that issue. Believe it or not, Christians aren't perfect, nor do they know everything.

[MonkeyHead]

You forgot Martin Luther and the protestant reformation (heavy shit), and Henry VIII and the split of CoE and Rome (just so he could get divorced)...

[freeformschooler]

ggamer, when you say "forgiveness", are you meaning "chances to repent and become non-gay"? Or more like "as long as you repent and ask for forgiveness it's okay to be gay"? Just making sure. Pardon me if watching people I love take verbal and physical abuse from their own families and friends for 18+ years has soured me to the "homosexuality is a sin" belief.

[micelus]

@ggamer while the church had been fracturing for a while, it didn't break till 1054. And no, there were other christian sects, they were just smaller and less well known.

Just to stay somewhat on topic, I don't even believe homosexuality is a sin, and that intercourse between those of the same sex and those of opposite sex is the same thing spiritual wise; sinful in essence but somewhat necessary. Now back to lurking this thread.

[Sheb]

Yeah, there are dozens of Christian sects all over the Middle East as well. And it's the Orthodox that keeps using icons, not the Catholics.

[Andir]

I'm finding a large number of people in general seem to be in a big damn hurry and unwilling to line up for stuff/cut people off in traffic/refuse to let other people merge into their lanes of traffic, while thinking, "but I just want _____." You and everyone else man.... You and everyone else....

Am I the only one who gets a little twitch when I see someone taking up the entire grocery store isle by walking square down the middle until and after they see someone else coming? Then they may or may not reluctantly make it possible for the person to walk past them? I know I'm OCD, but the isle is 6 feet wide man. How is it that this is not wide enough for people to have assured clear distance around you with more than enough room for multiple people to decide which of 3 different cereals rebranded with 87 names they will buy?

RE: cutting in line at an exit ramp/etc. vs. Shopping carts

I feel these are related.  If someone wants to putz along or take their time negotiating the entrance/exit ramp or slowly accelerate to save gas, I see no qualms with cutting in front of them so I can take that same ramp at a speed greater than they want to handle.  What bugs me are the people that cut and cannot negotiate the ramps at a better pace than myself.

All too often, I find people aren't paying attention to the traffic in front of them at lights/exit ramps and they don't move in enough time to allow traffic to flow and let those behind them proceed with their lives.  (IE: Making others wait for them to move their shopping cart from the middle of the row.)  I find myself passing people all the time because they aren't paying attention to traffic ahead of them and focusing only on the car directly in front of them.  If two cars in front start moving, you can start creeping/moving and traffic will flow better... you don't have to wait for the car in front to start moving before releasing the brake.  I notice this at traffic lights mostly.  The light turns green and it takes exponentially longer to move as you go back in the queue.  With enough of a line, this causes pulses in traffic.  You can mitigate some of that by paying attention to the light and the car in front of you.  You'll notice the light changes and the car in front of you is still waiting for the brake lights of the car in front of them, completely oblivious to the green light.

I think the reason people feel they can drive and talk/"do other things" is because of this narrow focus on only the car in front of them.  The "problem of driving" seems elementary if you only have to keep speed/distance with the vehicle in front of you.  It gets more complicated if you are tracking several cars in multiple lanes.  (This is also why I think people tend to "cling" to others causing "vehicle trains" when there are perfectly good other/safer lanes.)

It's not about "having to get somewhere in a hurry" as much as it is lack of patience for other people's habits.  (IE: People putting their shopping carts in the middle of the flow of traffic because they don't consider other people.)

Of course, cutting is less of an issue if there are multiple lanes in the exit/entrance ramps so people can drive whatever way they like.  Could you imagine if the grocery store shrunk down the side aisles to one cart width?  It would cause people to want to cut in front of the person gabbing on their cellphone or causally browsing each isle so they can get their food and go home.

[ggamer]

Yeah, there are dozens of Christian sects all over the Middle East as well. And it's the Orthodox that keeps using icons, not the Catholics.

Really? I honestly didn't know that. link to somewhere I can read up on that?

WHUPS, gonna edit my last post to fix that.

You forgot Martin Luther and the protestant reformation (heavy shit), and Henry VIII and the split of CoE and Rome (just so he could get divorced)...

Thought I mentioned the reformation...

Both denominations split down further due to political (for Eastern Orthodox) and Ideological (For Western Catholic church) reasons. This left us with the Eastern Christians being Greek, Russian, etc. orthodox faiths, the Western Christians being the Catholics and the Protestants.

yup, definitely did.

@ggamer while the church had been fracturing for a while, it didn't break till 1054. And no, there were other christian sects, they were just smaller and less well known.

Just to stay somewhat on topic, I don't even believe homosexuality is a sin, and that intercourse between those of the same sex and those of opposite sex is the same thing spiritual wise; sinful in essence but somewhat necessary. Now back to lurking this thread.

Whups, that is a rather large mistake. sorry about that.

What I was getting at is that it's just as serious as any other sin. If it's a choice, then I probably couldn't voice my opinion about it without getting banned in the face (I'd think that God could understand your specific predicament, though), but if it's unfix able  (Genetic, whatever, we've already said it's complicated) Then the person committing it would be forgiven.

ggamer, when you say "forgiveness", are you meaning "chances to repent and become non-gay"? Or more like "as long as you repent and ask for forgiveness it's okay to be gay"? Just making sure. Pardon me if watching people I love take verbal and physical abuse from their own families and friends for 18+ years has soured me to the "homosexuality is a sin" belief.

See Above.

[Sheb]

I'd suggest you go and look it up on Wikipedia.

[Dutchling]

I'm pretty sure the Orthodox were in favor of the icons.
This is based solely on the fact that a lot of Byzantine duchies and counties in Crusader Kings have icons as their CoA's.

And yes, even if being gay would be a sin (which I personally do not think it is), there a lot of people who seem to see it as their divine duty to decide which sins are bad (read: being gay) and which are not (read: hating gays).

[micelus]

I feel like I should answer this. Orthodox are in favour of flat* icons. Catholics are ok with any icon.

*Literally flat. A portrait or such.