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Author Topic: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread  (Read 872343 times)

Andir

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #7185 on: November 17, 2011, 09:50:06 am »

There are tons of comments against him.
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I'll put $50 on some of the negative comments being from Southwest employees (especially the first/last.)  Although people defend products all the time when they have no intrinsic link, I still feel safe in this bet.
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

lordcooper

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #7186 on: November 17, 2011, 11:07:44 am »

VincentT  •  Knoxville, United States  •  11 hours ago
"This half witted excuse for a story needs a correction. The man is not seeking a class action lawsuit- His attorneys have decoided to try to milk the cow. His attorneys have made this clown see dollar signs in his eyes over what should in any event be ain small claims court. The other thing to consider here is the guy was flying just to get free booie he is redifining the definition of alky!!! LOLOL"

Alcohol: More expensive than flying.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #7187 on: November 17, 2011, 11:49:38 am »

VincentT  •  Knoxville, United States  •  11 hours ago
"This half witted excuse for a story needs a correction. The man is not seeking a class action lawsuit- His attorneys have decoided to try to milk the cow. His attorneys have made this clown see dollar signs in his eyes over what should in any event be ain small claims court. The other thing to consider here is the guy was flying just to get free booie he is redifining the definition of alky!!! LOLOL"

Alcohol: More expensive than flying.

How much is 45 drinks anyway? Like 200-250 dollars, if that? It mentions that there's "thousands" of these no-expiration date coupons floating around, and that probably constitutes a much larger sum of money, but how many statistical outliers can there be that hoard their coupons, much less intend to use them one day that the airlines need to raise a stink about the coupons specifically in order to save money?

Something's fishy, is what I'm trying to get at.
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Phmcw

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #7188 on: November 17, 2011, 01:13:01 pm »

I think notation agency have been a scapegoat in this crisis, and as always when I have been fooled by propaganda, I'm very unhappy : I can't help but notice that France, despite his AAA status and relatively low debt rate is borrowing at much higher rates than the US, which prove that the market isn't half as much influenced by these agencies than our politicians are willing to say.

Those fucker were just trying put the blame on someone else's shoulder, and those pretty obscure structures were perfect for that.
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Truean

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #7189 on: November 17, 2011, 02:21:15 pm »

VincentT  •  Knoxville, United States  •  11 hours ago
"This half witted excuse for a story needs a correction. The man is not seeking a class action lawsuit- His attorneys have decoided to try to milk the cow. His attorneys have made this clown see dollar signs in his eyes over what should in any event be ain small claims court. The other thing to consider here is the guy was flying just to get free booie he is redifining the definition of alky!!! LOLOL"

Alcohol: More expensive than flying.

How much is 45 drinks anyway? Like 200-250 dollars, if that? It mentions that there's "thousands" of these no-expiration date coupons floating around, and that probably constitutes a much larger sum of money, but how many statistical outliers can there be that hoard their coupons, much less intend to use them one day that the airlines need to raise a stink about the coupons specifically in order to save money?

Something's fishy, is what I'm trying to get at.

Real simple, if they honor his coupons, they have to honor all the other ones. They gave out hundreds of thousands over the years that are still out there.

Let's say "hundreds of thousands means 200,000, though it could easily be 3,4,5,6,7 hundred thousand. Let's say it's only 200,000 that are left. People save these things up like frequent flier miles, anyhow.... These things are worth $5 each

200,000 x 5 = $1,000,000....

For every 100,000 of these things out there, it's $500,000. There are hundreds of thousands of these things out there..... :)
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JoshuaFH

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #7190 on: November 17, 2011, 03:53:38 pm »

VincentT  •  Knoxville, United States  •  11 hours ago
"This half witted excuse for a story needs a correction. The man is not seeking a class action lawsuit- His attorneys have decoided to try to milk the cow. His attorneys have made this clown see dollar signs in his eyes over what should in any event be ain small claims court. The other thing to consider here is the guy was flying just to get free booie he is redifining the definition of alky!!! LOLOL"

Alcohol: More expensive than flying.

How much is 45 drinks anyway? Like 200-250 dollars, if that? It mentions that there's "thousands" of these no-expiration date coupons floating around, and that probably constitutes a much larger sum of money, but how many statistical outliers can there be that hoard their coupons, much less intend to use them one day that the airlines need to raise a stink about the coupons specifically in order to save money?

Something's fishy, is what I'm trying to get at.

Real simple, if they honor his coupons, they have to honor all the other ones. They gave out hundreds of thousands over the years that are still out there.

Let's say "hundreds of thousands means 200,000, though it could easily be 3,4,5,6,7 hundred thousand. Let's say it's only 200,000 that are left. People save these things up like frequent flier miles, anyhow.... These things are worth $5 each

200,000 x 5 = $1,000,000....

For every 100,000 of these things out there, it's $500,000. There are hundreds of thousands of these things out there..... :)

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that, the actual move to change the coupon policy has a dubious motive. There's alot of contradicting elements, and assumptions made not based in reality, or good sense.

If, hypothetically, the value of the coupon is less than that of a drink, and so customers are extracting value out of the airline company much greater than it costs to issue the coupons, and so each coupon redeemed is so-and-so net loss. This is the worst case scenario for the company, although it's hard to imagine how a single alcoholic beverage could be so expensive unless there were external factors seriously ratcheting up the price of alcohol. Most likely though, the price of the drink is only cutting into the profit from selling the plane ticket only slightly.

Under the old coupon policy, each coupon can theoretically remain in circulation forever. I suppose if you were an economist, and you modeled the outcome of this policy using Homo Economicus, where each coupon will be held onto and redeemed 100% of the time, you'd naturally deduce "OH NO! LOSING MONEY FOREVER!", and thus are given the impetus to enact the new coupon policy.

However, I can't help but see this as completely irrational. Irrational in the sense that it doesn't actually work towards the Airline Company's goal of making money. Why? Because the old coupon policy of having each voucher have no expiration date actually SAVES the company money. There are simple psychological forces guaranteeing this.

Now, who receives these coupons? Customers. Not just any customers though, they're given to customers that can obviously afford the "premium" that the airlines can give. Now, whether or not these customers are actually wealthy travelers or indifferent businessmen on the company's budget, the two demographics most likely to be purchasing this service,  is of some importance because it lets us guess what they think about coupons and how they'll use them.

Now, coupons, and I've forgotten the correct economic term for this, are a tool to divide up their customer base, from people that are willing to pay more, to people that are are only inclined to pay as much as they absolutely have to. Either way, the coupon helps the airlines, because in the hands of a person willing to shell out more money for luxuries (the wealthy traveler), let's him get a free drink, and that might instigate him to purchase even more drinks or food items, turning a profit. In the hands of someone that has incentive to be more frugal (the businessman on a budget), it allows him to get a drink for free that won't be listed on any account of purchases, and the lack of expiration date allows him to save it for later.

Now, the clinching thing is the expiration date, and I really do mean it when having none whatsoever saves the company money. Even in the worst case where each drink is a net loss, it saves money. Why? Because the lack of expiration date removes pressure from the customer to redeem it.

With an expiration date, the customer is given a choice: redeem the coupon and receive the value of the drink, or don't and allow the coupon to become worthless at the end of the trip. Any person that cares at all about their alcoholic beverages will of course see the obvious incentive of redeeming it right away, and they'll accept their drink right then and there. That's what the expiration date does, it incentivizes the customer to do something within a time limit, and if that thing only has a positive outcome for the customer, even better for him.

With no expiration date, the incentive to redeem it right away isn't there and the customer can feel free to save it, and when it's saved, the company retains the value of the drink for that much longer, and while it's definitely true that that saving that value gives the company more spending power (however minute) to place into investments and increase income over the long term, there are much stronger forces at work here.

What I speak of is the fickle psychology that rules over people when it comes to actually saving things for later. While the coupons can theoretically remain in circulation forever, there's a very good chance they won't. Now, I've personally known people that save coupons and vouchers, and also hoarders that want to hold onto everything of value no matter how small, and trust me when I say that all but the most dedicated have self-defeating habits. What I mean by that is: people that save items for later, tend to forget to actually use them for later. It's like, if you've played Final Fantasy, you get elixirs you find in chests, but then you hold onto them and hold onto them and hold onto them... saving them for later because there are usually only so many in the game, and you don't want to waste a useful resource when you could save them for when the game gets REALLY hard... but then you beat the game, and you realize that you still have every single elixir you've ever found in your inventory. Now, you do get the person that can follow through on their saving and use the coupons for their intended purpose (the man in the article), but you would not believe how many of those coupons just get discarded long after the flight, by people who think to save it, but then realize it's just not worth hanging onto it... and then there's people who intend to use it on their next flight, but then just forget to bring along the little piece of paper, or just forget to use it. People lose the coupons, but they don't blame the company for it, and the company gets to keep the value of the drink that the coupon was worth, while also reaping the 'good will' that giving the coupon generated.

These factors work together to ensure that: With an expiration date, more coupons are being used than if there were no expiration date at all, and thus the company is losing more money than they have to.

The point of the article though, is something even more troubling, and that's the abuse of it's customer's 'good will' or the customer's general sentiment towards the company.

Now, while the addition of the expiration date is a bad move by itself, it could have been alleviated by adding the caveat that coupons already in circulation are still valid and can be used... and this saves money. Why? Because it saves the good will generated, and 5 dollars of good will is worth more than 5 actual dollars. What I mean by that is, by refusing the man with 45 coupons, they're severely damaging that customer's good will. The drink is only 5 measly dollars, but the customer feels as though he's just been betrayed. Now, when the customer now has the choice of airlines, is he going to choose the airline that gives out a single free drink for the flight, but very definitely doesn't care about him, or is he going to choose an airline that may not give a drink, but will get him to his location just as well, and may even treat him better? In my opinion, more people would pick the latter than you'd think, and what WAS a measly 5 dollars in cost prevention, is now 200 or more dollars that they're not getting, and is being given to a competitor.

It's for these reasons that the Airline in question is either enacting an extremely elaborate conspiracy that involves battering the trust of it's customers and throwing away money, or are actually just enormously stupid.

I, myself, am going to go with the latter.
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alway

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #7191 on: November 17, 2011, 03:59:12 pm »

More info about the nutter who shot at the white house last week.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45342223/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.TsV0VWNCo8k
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An Idaho man charged with firing two shots at the White House last week has been charged with attempting to assassinate President Barack Obama or his staff.

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Investigators and the man's father said Ortega was obsessed with President Barack Obama and the date 11/11/11. Authorities are investigating the man's mental health and say there are indications he believed attacking the White House was part of a personal mission from God, according to two different law enforcement officials who spoke to The Associated Press.
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Virex

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #7192 on: November 17, 2011, 04:04:39 pm »

People like him need psychological help, not prison time.

I think notation agency have been a scapegoat in this crisis, and as always when I have been fooled by propaganda, I'm very unhappy : I can't help but notice that France, despite his AAA status and relatively low debt rate is borrowing at much higher rates than the US, which prove that the market isn't half as much influenced by these agencies than our politicians are willing to say.

Those fucker were just trying put the blame on someone else's shoulder, and those pretty obscure structures were perfect for that.
The recent jump in Frances rates is because of the whole Greek question though. Banks have to devalue their loans to Greece with 50% as per the plan. Coincidentally, French banks have a lot of Greek loans, which makes investors uneasy. Besides, Moodies did threaten to lower France's credit rating recently, but decided not to after the French government presented plans for large budget cuts.
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Truean

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #7193 on: November 17, 2011, 07:35:37 pm »

Yeah, I knew it was too early to celebrate on prop 8. Everyone looks at me and is like "O what do you mean, it's over right?"

Wrong.

California is one of if not the most liberal state. If gay marriage can't make it there, then things aren't great. This is one of the reasons why I'm worried....
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 07:44:16 pm by Truean »
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Pnx

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #7194 on: November 17, 2011, 08:41:58 pm »

Didn't gay marriage get voted in there before, but get voted out again by a push by the fundamentalist population?

Or was this something else?
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kaijyuu

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #7195 on: November 17, 2011, 08:43:42 pm »

California is extremely diverse so it'd surprise me if anything they pass wasn't somehow contested.
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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #7196 on: November 17, 2011, 10:56:55 pm »

Washington (State) is trying to pass Gay/Lesbian marriage again, yay. We already have the Everything But Marriage Act, which gives everything but the name, but the name is being asked for, and the name it shall receive. If my fellow Eastern-Washingtonians don't fuck it up again, that is.

Go Seattle, go!
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Truean

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #7197 on: November 17, 2011, 11:02:34 pm »

Didn't gay marriage get voted in there before, but get voted out again by a push by the fundamentalist population?

Or was this something else?

O yes, you're right on target. It really is that Prop 8 that got put in, then out, and in again and possibly out again now.... Wasn't this all started years ago.... Yup.

I've said it here before and I'm saying it again. If "God" hated gay marriage that much, Canada would've been ashes long ago, snow and all.

Our society is falling apart at the seems. I know. Let's all blame the gays! :P I admit we decorated way too damn much, but come on, how are we even semi plausible scapegoats here?

California is extremely diverse so it'd surprise me if anything they pass wasn't somehow contested.
California is extremely diverse so it'd surprise me if anything they pass wasn't somehow contested.

Eh, true enough but overall it has a liberal leaning to it, which clearly I'm fine with...
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 11:04:23 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #7198 on: November 17, 2011, 11:07:08 pm »

I've said it here before and I'm saying it again. If "God" hated gay marriage that much, Canada would've been ashes long ago, snow and all.
Believe it or not, the most common response I get to this argument is literally that God is simply biding his time, and will retaliate any day now. Annnnnyyyyyyy day now.....
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California is extremely diverse so it'd surprise me if anything they pass wasn't somehow contested.
California is extremely diverse so it'd surprise me if anything they pass wasn't somehow contested.
Eh, true enough but overall it has a liberal leaning to it, which clearly I'm fine with...
South California actually has a heavy conservative slant, which is not unrelated to the election of The Governator, who is a social conservative and opposes same-sex marriage.
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Truean

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Re: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread
« Reply #7199 on: November 17, 2011, 11:11:12 pm »

Well, this is the same governator who along with his attorney general are refusing to defend the anti gay crap. He says one thing but really I don't know that he gives a damn one way or the other. I think he's more "who gives a shit, we're billions in debt and don't have the money."

I've heard the "he's just waiting to strike us all down" BS too. It's annoying at best.
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.
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