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[Fenrir]

The subject is a very personal one. I'd rather not go into huge detail about it here, but nevertheless it really struck a nerve with me. Plus, I don't think you saw this guy's posts. He was a real douche, to put it plainly.

Edit: Erm, sorry about the random derail.

I think I did see his posts, but I do not really remember. It was simply that your specific objection puzzled me.

Anyway, now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[Truean]

If I were to ever meet ggamer in real life, I'd punch him in the face. Saying that homosexuality is a choice is just flat-out insulting to me.

I am sorry, but I do not see why that is insulting, and I certainly do not understand why it would deserve a face punch. It would only make sense to me if homosexuality was some variety of malady, but it is not.

The reason saying "being gay is a choice" is incredibly offensive is because in the U.S. it always, leads to "being gay is a choice and its the wrong choice and you should choose to be straight."

It leads to asshole camps like these who cater to the parent's bigotry:
http://www.afterellen.com/TV/2011/03/lisa-lings-our-america-asks-can-you-pray-the-gay-away?page=0,1

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s11e02-cartman-sucks

And South Park did an episode: http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155505/butters-arrives-at-camp

By the way, these camps cost easily $5000.... So it's expensive bigotry.

Of course if being gay wasn't a choice.... Then these camps would be .... yeah...

[G-Flex]

If I were to ever meet ggamer in real life, I'd punch him in the face. Saying that homosexuality is a choice is just flat-out insulting to me.

I am sorry, but I do not see why that is insulting, and I certainly do not understand why it would deserve a face punch. It would only make sense to me if homosexuality was some variety of malady, but it is not.

The reason saying "being gay is a choice" is incredibly offensive is because in the U.S. it always, leads to "being gay is a choice and its the wrong choice and you should choose to be straight."

It's bad enough even if you don't say that, because then you imply that a person can change their sexual orientation on a whim, which is blatantly untrue.

Sexual orientation is most certainly not the result of any singular influence, regardless of what that influence is (genetics, "choice", whatever environmental factor people want to talk about, etc.).

[Askot Bokbondeler]

well if it isn't a choice it is a disease to be cured, so i'd rather see it being treated as a choice and interfering with it be regarded as undemocratic, than a disability that may be curable or not but is universally thought of as a terrible thing

[Tyg13]

well if it isn't a choice it is a disease to be cured, so i'd rather see it being treated as a choice and interfering with it be regarded as undemocratic, than a disability that may be curable or not but is universally thought of as a terrible thing

Um. Since when can something be either a choice or a disease? I mean, being tall is not a disease and it's also not a choice. So... how does your logic apply here?

[G-Flex]

I don't like ice cream by conscious choice, so liking ice cream is a disease. Same with my brown hair!

[Truean]

well if it isn't a choice it is a disease to be cured, so i'd rather see it being treated as a choice and interfering with it be regarded as undemocratic, than a disability that may be curable or not but is universally thought of as a terrible thing

..... disease?

You never considered there's nothing wrong with it at all?

[freeformschooler]

well if it isn't a choice it is a disease to be cured, so i'd rather see it being treated as a choice and interfering with it be regarded as undemocratic, than a disability that may be curable or not but is universally thought of as a terrible thing

Or, we could stop thinking of it as a "disability" or a "disease" or a "wrong choice" but just something that is part of a person and leave it at that. All of those imply there's something "wrong" with it.

EDIT: dangit trueninja

[Tyg13]

I don't like ice cream by conscious choice, so liking ice cream is a disease. Same with my brown hair!

BURN THE HERETIC

Strangely, google images only brings up screenshots of Heretic 2 when you search for "Heretic"

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Human sexuality is far more complicated than something you can whittle down to "Genetic or Choice". It's a False Dichotomy. There are all sorts of factors that could potentially influence how a person's sexuality develops, and it just isn't something worth worrying about.

[G-Flex]

Or, we could stop thinking of it as a "disability" or a "disease" or a "choice" but just something that is part of a person and leave it at that. All of those imply there's something "wrong" with it.

EDIT: dangit trueninja

To be fair, calling it a "choice" doesn't imply that it's a bad choice, but it's still fairly insulting to tell someone they could easily choose not to be something when they really can't.

[freeformschooler]

No, that's true. I'm just too conditioned by being surrounded by one opinion -- "since it's a choice, you should choose not to be". Sorry 'bout that.

[Truean]

Trying to "cure" homosexuality ends up with this:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155508/pastor-phillips-sermon

Granted the choice doesn't necessarily lead to the "so it's the wrong one..." Except that in the US it almost always does....

[Benevolence]

At least how I'm reading it, he's giving an example of how the people treating it as a choice (that should be reversed) might react if convinced it was not, in fact, a choice. Given the starting premise that homosexuality is wrong...
Choice: It is a wrong choice; help people make the right one.
Not a choice: It is something wrong that people cannot choose. So call it a disease; diseases can be cured. Cure the disease. "Problem" solved!

Of course, it starts with the presumption that homosexuality is actually wrong, so if people don't agree with that, the entire thing obviously falls apart. Which is completely ignoring the issue of whether changing it would be feasible (if even possible).

If I am reading it correctly, I can agree that Askot could have been more clear.

[Tyg13]

I wonder if Vector minds us commandeering her thread. On one hand, it's pretty rude to do that to someone. On the other hand, the topic seems to change so rapidly here that it doesn't matter anyways. Truly a conundrum.