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Author Topic: Chill and Relaxed Progressive Irritation and Annoyance Thread  (Read 880493 times)

Africa

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #885 on: June 21, 2011, 01:55:14 pm »

Hell, I'm a dude and working and having multiple kids seems like more than I could handle. But everyone I know in that age bracket seems to be pulling off...maybe I'm overestimating how bad kids are.
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Quote from: Cthulhu
It's like using hobos to fight an eating-resistant baloney epidemic.

KaelGotDwarves

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #886 on: June 21, 2011, 02:02:35 pm »

Like flowers growing in between cracks in the cement throughout the sidewalks of Oakland, life and people mostly find a way to get by and live, even if the conditions are not optimal.

It's quite amazing how humans adapt to this crazy world and societies we've built to ourselves. Honestly makes no sense to me, but it's pretty.

I was dating a 23 year old single mum with a 4 year old for a bit. I learned a lot even though it didn't work out.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 02:05:24 pm by KaelGotDwarves »
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Siquo

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #887 on: June 21, 2011, 04:58:58 pm »

maybe I'm overestimating how bad kids are.
No, no, you're not. But you are underestimating yourself. I've reached levels of activity, productivity and efficiency I never knew I had in me.

Kael, speak more beautiful words to me. Raeg is necessary to make the world better, but it doesn't always need to rain.
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This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))

KaelGotDwarves

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #888 on: June 21, 2011, 06:07:03 pm »

Okay.

This is Vector's rage thread though, so it's up to her if I ought to shut up.

I do not feel rage, nor do I find rage necessary to make the world better. I find that a desire to do good and an acceptance that you can't fix everything is what you need. Then a willingness to act in spite of all odds, knowing ultimately what you have done will be forgotten. The last time I felt rage I was deported from Myanmar for hitting a man in the face who offered me an underaged prostitute in a crowded marketplace. I was a 20 year old teaching intern with 650 kids. The anger did not solve anything. I did not find anger when I had guns pointed at me on multiple occasions. I have felt safer having ak-47s pointed at my chest in Cambodia than I did being surrounded by guys in Oakland and having a knife pulled on me. A boy of 18 years was stabbed through the chest by a tweaker during a drug deal 20 feet from me in a public park in Salt Lake City during what should have been a lovely day at the hippie drum circles. I have watched people die, watched the life leave their eyes and heard them draw their last breaths; I have administered last rites, listened to the unfulfilled and unfulfillable dreams of dying children with cancer. I have seen new life born. I have married couples and performed fiery dances at weddings. I have helped counsel those needing divorce. I watched as some of the brightest young minds I knew tumbled into drugs and depression, only to take away their own physical existence. I have witnessed others recover from rape, death, sorrow, pain, and suffering only to reintegrate with a society that doesn't welcome them. I walked along the dirt and ashes of old concentration camps in Europe where millions were systematically killed because of illusionary differences. I trudged along trails littered with bones, fragments of skulls, rags of the victims, in the rain in Cambodia amongst the Killing Fields, where 3 million perished for practically no reason at all. Beggar children asked us for money standing in waist-deep water in pits where 400 headless corpses were excavated and some still lay. I am 24 years old, and a young idealistic/pragmatic/cynical old soul that sees no sense in suffering. I see no sense in bringing suffering to others. I see no sense in bringing suffering to myself. I no longer feel rage. I feel sorrow, the burdens of people I know, have yet to meet, and have never met. I feel happiness, a endless sea of reverberating joy from being in the middle of thousands of exalting, partying people - their feelings "resonating without interference in consciousnesses that are wide open to external impressions, each one echoing the others" as they dance. I understand if we could only see beyond our superfluous differences that we could live in peace. If we can see beyond our limited five senses we can see that the boundaries between us as human beings are fabrications of the mind. That the matter and energy that comprise our mortal bodies have lived a multitude of lifetimes. I am a man. But I have been a woman, old, young, rich, poor, white, black, of all races, creeds, beliefs, nationalities, religions, animals, plants - a part of me and mirrored within the facets of my being. That we are each a conscious, tiny, self-aware and sometimes lost... part of this gorgeous universe we sometimes fail to comprehend because we can not see, hear, smell, taste, and touch everything that can be experienced before we die. And we will all die soon enough. But if we can see beyond scale, where the beauty of an orchid is just as majestic as that of a supernova- and see beyond time, that one moment of love can be create more ripples of inspiration as entire lifetimes of those without love, then we can finally come to wisdom. Understanding. Happiness.

There was somewhere I was going with that derailed-train-of-thought - but if you excuse me I'm going to call someone and tell them that I love them.

That's important. :3
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 06:08:38 pm by KaelGotDwarves »
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SalmonGod

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #889 on: June 21, 2011, 06:24:25 pm »

If we take progress within society to it's natural, modern, entirely extreme side of "progress" conclusions, we would end up with a world where we simply eliminate all dissidents, liquidate the mentally unstable and slow, purge emotions, destroy the very things that make us human in the first place.

And all of these are happening to enough of an extent to be worrisome.  Elimination of dissidents is being done under the guise of combating terrorism.  Any willingness to outwardly display "weak" emotions is being villainized as "emo".

Society's tendency to want to drug anybody who thinks or behaves "abnormally" especially scares the hell out of me.  I've seen my aspie (don't know if that term is acceptable or not - just let me know) brother drugged to oblivion.  I've had a couple friends screwed up by experiences with ritalin or anti-depressants.  I've had multiple friends who worked in psychiatric wards, and every one of them has quit because the practices were too horrifying for them, not because the job was too hard.


Still catching up on this thread after a busy weekend...
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Siquo

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #890 on: June 21, 2011, 06:38:32 pm »

Thanks Kael, I could use that.

As opposed to raeg.
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This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))

Vector

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #891 on: June 21, 2011, 07:10:54 pm »

I've seen my aspie (don't know if that term is acceptable or not - just let me know) brother drugged to oblivion.

I prefer "brother with Asperger's," or similar (because it employs "person first" diction, and forces everyone to remember that this is a person with a condition rather than a member of some alien race), but I will not press it.  Anyone who uses a word like "asparagus" more than once will be asked to leave the thread, because I will not tolerate being referred to as an object.

Thank you so very, very much for asking.


I would like to know what the Buddhists suggest for those who are on the autistic spectrum, and thus will in all probability never be able to fulfill their requirements for a "good" and "happy" human being.

If this is punishment for a past life, it isn't a very funny one.

(Part of me is strongly considering stepping down and letting someone else take over, but I suspect that is just another one of those moments of egotism I've been known to have, rather than an actual act of mercy)
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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Reelyanoob

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #892 on: June 21, 2011, 07:18:02 pm »

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blackmagechill

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #893 on: June 21, 2011, 07:19:30 pm »

-lots of stuff-
That's important. :3
D:
It occured to me that you've been pretty much everywhere in South-East Asia/Everywhere the hell else and I'm stuck in fucking tweakville Missouri. Great.
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Vector

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #894 on: June 21, 2011, 07:29:33 pm »

D:
It occured to me that you've been pretty much everywhere in South-East Asia/Everywhere the hell else and I'm stuck in fucking tweakville Missouri. Great.

You're 13, he's 24.  I'm 21 and I've done none of the stuff he's done.  Get to my age and start worrying about where you've been, because right now you have lots of time to make your own future.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

SalmonGod

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #895 on: June 21, 2011, 08:14:11 pm »

I'm 28 and barely been outside of the midwest, and never to another country :(


Thank you so very, very much for asking.

I'm glad to have that out of the way.  I've heard the term used by lots of people, including a couple who worked with autistic children professionally, but never got an autistic person's perspective on it.  I never thought to interpret it the way you do, and can see how that type of language can have subconscious implications.  I'll try to apply that criteria to other such terms in the future.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 08:20:40 pm by SalmonGod »
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

KaelGotDwarves

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #896 on: June 21, 2011, 08:25:54 pm »

I would like to know what the Buddhists suggest for those who are on the autistic spectrum, and thus will in all probability never be able to fulfill their requirements for a "good" and "happy" human being.

If this is punishment for a past life, it isn't a very funny one.

(Part of me is strongly considering stepping down and letting someone else take over, but I suspect that is just another one of those moments of egotism I've been known to have, rather than an actual act of mercy)
Well, at least on my own understanding of karma - "kamma" in the Buddha's language, and about reincarnation...

It's often misunderstood as karma being - 'you do bad things, and bad things happen to you; if you do good things, then good things happen to you', which is an misunderstanding/over-simplification that doesn't actually aid understanding of karmic law.

Rather, it's more simple, natural law of causation. For every action, there is a reaction. For every thing that happens, it causes a myriad of effects that we can only begin to imagine unless we really think about it. Chaos theory. For reincarnation, let's stray away from a physical death and birth, for the self is not simply this shell of a body.

Who we are... is not the same as who we were 10 years ago. Who we were a year ago is not the same as who we are now. A week ago, you were a different person. Your emotions, thoughts, feelings, all different than a day, an hour, a split second ago.

Who we are has changed. That idea of who we are has died, and been reborn. If we are angry, or very sad, or desiring that which we cannot have, that sense of self has been reborn in a type of mental hell. We are grasping, attached to an idea that isn't quite right and we can't change it. It consumes us - and if we let those emotions linger, we become what the Thais call a "hungry ghost". When we are happy, it is as though we are in heaven. We have all we could possibly want at the moment. But moments change, and the sense of self dies and is reborn anew. Say that we have lived in such a way that our ego and bad desires have gone, then we find Enlightenment - the true understanding and happiness, is a state of non-being where the self has ceased to exist. Nirvana means literally "a flame that has gone out". And we all can achieve Enlightenment while still physically alive, as the Buddha did. Not all of us can achieve Enlightenment now or even in this physical lifetime, but we can train and start training our minds to become happier, to act in such a way that we don't bring ourselves suffering or cause those around us to suffer - but instead bring happiness where ever we go. It's practical. It's worth doing even if you don't consider yourself "buddhist". That doesn't matter.

So in regards to the autistic spectrum, no - it is not a punishment for a physical past life, but rather the result of vast genetic and environmental causes, and in particular the union of one's parents.

I have known some autistics, among other people that have suffered horribly, go on to live full and quite happy lives, although some are not completely independent (who is?). How do they manage? Well, they live and learn. It's a process.

When someone asked the Buddha repeatedly what the essence of Buddhism was - The Buddha said thus - "Always do good, never do bad, purify the mind."

Control your thoughts, feelings, emotions, and mind. Don't let them control you. Buddhism isn't about labels. All it is about is suffering: understanding suffering exists, that it comes from bad desires, clinging, attachments, that there is a path out of suffering, and following that path - Concerning the human condition. That's all that we, as humans, can know.

Go on to find your own happiness. :)

I think part of the problem is that it's an echo-chamber on the internet. If people are busy happily living their lives, you won't hear about it much on here and various forums, Vector.

So in regards to phenomenology, it's not that any of you have done or experienced any less than I have, but it's the difference in how we understand our experiences. There are those that have experienced far more than I and have entirely different outlooks still filled with hate and constant anger- and that written diarrhea I posted earlier was just a small fraction of some of the things that I have done. Look at life as a constant learning, growing process worth spending time with the right people for - and then the way to happiness and understanding won't be so far away. I'm still learning as well.

Oh and... never truly too late to begin living the way you want to live even if you can't have everything that you want. ;) you just have to make it happen. Think it. Do it. That's what I learned from the bald-headed children.

I go out to teach, I always get taught.

EDIT: The foundation of Buddhism is meditation. Learning concentration and mindfulness: of ourselves, our bodies, our thoughts, of others, of our surrounding environment, and most importantly - breathing.

When we get angry, we're told to take a deep breath in before we punch someone. When we're in intense pain- such as childbirth, we're taught to keep breathing. Remember to focus on the breath in situations where you do not feel like you are in control until you can take control. Do that and you'll find things easier. I can promise you that.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 08:47:38 pm by KaelGotDwarves »
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Vector

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #897 on: June 21, 2011, 08:57:18 pm »

I think the point is that one needs to understand that anger can be useful for people to continue living, and it's up to them when they're ready to let go of it--or not.  It is not inherently useless.  It is not necessary for change, but if it is part of us as we fight for change, that does not make us lesser in any sense of the word.

The most I have suffered in my life was when I was trying to let go and "control" my pain.  I stopped trying and I was still sad, but I wasn't sad in the same, self-condemning way.  I could feel sad without feeling guilty for feeling sad, because I no longer allow other people to audit my emotions and tell me when they are and aren't reasonable, are and aren't causing suffering, and so on, and so forth.

We walk out into the world and have so many people telling us what to do all the time that it becomes impossible to listen to ourselves at all, or know ourselves, or act in our own best interests--flooded by all the messages of society, including the messages that there is no reason or need to feel in some way.  That any suffering we value as formative was, in fact, pointless.

My suffering made me who I am, and that is why I want to make this world better for other people, who are also suffering but are not being listened to, just as I wasn't so many times.  It had value.  It made me angry.  It gave me insight.  So long as any other person on earth is in pain, my pain is worthwhile.

I will continue to contend that this life is not any lesser, simply because it has fewer people in it and less connection.  Our capacity for feeling is not "what makes us human" any more than is any other arbitrary designation.  We simply are what we are, and I find peace in being as angry and depressed as I feel like being.  Allowing myself to feel anger when I want to feel angry, rather than rationalizing away all responsibility for another party with "compassion" and denying myself any compassionate feeling, helps me stay balanced between extremes.  Extremes of anger and submissive calm, that is.


EDIT: Kael, since when did anger imply a lack of control?  There's a difference between speaking from a position of anger and speaking angrily.

One of the reasons why I am where I am now is because I spent my childhood, as people told me to, giving far, far more than I had to give (to no reward whatsoever, because everyone always wanted me to give more) and ignoring every slight people rained upon me.

Externally, anyway.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

SalmonGod

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #898 on: June 21, 2011, 09:12:59 pm »

I've done a LOT of thinking on this issue... I've always been disturbed by the way most people handle their emotions.  I don't think any single emotion is inherently unhealthy, as most of society would have you believe.  I don't think sadness or even depression or anger are things we should actively try to escape.  I think every emotion serves a purpose, and we tend to feel exactly as we SHOULD in whatever circumstances we find ourselves.  Every emotion is specifically tailored to give us the energies we need to deal with those circumstances which give rise to them.

Control your thoughts, feelings, emotions, and mind. Don't let them control you.

So I half disagree with this, but I also half agree with it.  While we should allow ourselves to feel whatever emotions are appropriate in any situation, we shouldn't be dominated by those emotions.  As usual, I'm going to use personal experiences to put this in perspective.

I think my wife is horribly addicted to anger.  She suffered every major type of abuse throughout her childhood, and has had to struggle for survival many times.  Anger is the natural emotional response for a person who is being intentionally made to suffer by others.  Anger gave her the drive she needed to overcome those obstacles and be alive and healthy today.  However, she no longer lives in such dire circumstances, and she has continued using anger as her source of energy to deal with regular daily problems.  She never learned to deal with problems any other way, because the problems that dominated her early life were ones that required anger to overcome.  When she encounters difficulty, she gets angry, and it becomes impossible to reach her.  It controls her.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Vector

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Re: Vector's Progressive Rage Thread
« Reply #899 on: June 21, 2011, 09:20:16 pm »

Exactly.

Respond to the circumstances at hand with whatever reaction seems necessary, but learn to separate the emotion caused by the present circumstance, and the emotion caused by echoes of previous ones--and think through the consequences of your reactions, when you can.

That's what I consider sensible, anyway.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".
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