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Author Topic: League of Legends - Patch 7.22 - Runes Reforged  (Read 1285298 times)

frostshotgg

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Mid July Patch / Zyra - 1.0.0.143
« Reply #9555 on: August 10, 2012, 01:07:30 pm »

Eve is terrible right now. It was only a tiny tiny tiny improvement over what she was before. She's old (jungle) twitch tier. She can be good in the right circumstances, but like before she's dependent on bad play on the enemy's part.
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penguinofhonor

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Mid July Patch / Zyra - 1.0.0.143
« Reply #9556 on: August 10, 2012, 02:26:00 pm »

How is a shield and possibly 2 blinks with a low cooldown no escapability? The pull can be used for juking as well, so she basically has 3 abilities to help her get out of a sticky situation.

The shield is only really good when used offensively due to needing to manage the balls to get the most out of the spell. And using her ultimate to escape is tremendously inconsistent.

How is having 6 abilities, one of which deals excellent AoE damage and one of which boosts your whole team not good for teamfights?

a) It's a movement speed boost that can boost your whole team. See Karma for why abilities that help your team can be ruined by making them difficult to pull off. See Sivir for how much more powerful it is to just make everyone faster without requiring them to do anything.
b) Saying his ball is good for team fights because it's AOE damage is like saying Twisted Fate has good team fight abilities because his Q is AOE. They're good poke, that's all.
c) On that note, Twisted Fate is a great example of how not having a team fight oriented ult has the drawback of requiring you to drastically change your playstyle to get the most out of the champion.

Didn't I mention that his passive gives movement speed? 5% doesn't sound much, but when your base movement speed is near 300, this means 15 extra MS which does help. Not to mention that his pull has deceptively enormous range, and the fact that he always rushes Phage, means that you can't really escape him all that easily. And build squishier? All Dariuses I see build Phage into TF and/or Frozen Mallet, and Maw of Malmortius. Those 3 items give plenty of durability and support the bruiser build.

Yeah, 5% movement speed that requires you to hit them already. Like I said, more kiteable than Udyr, who starts out with an unconditional 15% boost.

And I'm a little tired of people arguing about how Darius scales with AD super well and how he doesn't need to build AD. He does not have absurd bases and absurd ratios. If you argue that then you're just wrong.

I have no fucking clue what you're talking about. His charge acts like a short duration stun, that is already hard CC. His ult also affects the whole fucking team. 5 guys that you can force to run back. How is that not crowd control? Tell me, please.

Because Irelia can stun someone for a longer duration than him, with one ability? A 0.25 second or so disable on his charge is not particularly impressive, and then his ult is 1 second (and seriously, stop with the hyperbole that AOE = entire team, because you're really only going to hit three people with a hec ult on a good day). Yes. It is AOE. That is good. But team fights are all about focusing down specific targets and 2 seconds of stunning the carry is typically going to be more valuable than 1 second spread across any number of people.

And before we get to AOE CC, Hecarim is nowhere near the scale of actual AOE CC champions like Amumu or Zyra. I can't find hard numbers on the radius of Hec's fear, but it looks like 200 at the most. If my estimate is correct, his fear has 11% of the AOE of Amumu's ultimate.

Oh come on, have you ever played against an Ahri? She throws her charm and if it hits, she uses her ult to dash in, lands her boomerang easily (charm says no dodging) and her spirit fires just fly at you. Maybe she uses her ult again on you to deal more damage, and if you aren't near dead, ult to get away. Easy to get away. And if she gets ganked, now she hasn't used her ult to initiate so she ahs 3 blinks and charm and most likely flash. So yeah, 4 blinks. Sure is hard to escape.
I wouldn't mind if she could use them to get in, but no, she can use them to get out just as easily, and both get in AND get out.

A ton of her damage and escapability completely hinges on her ult. In addition, she lacks the typical super long ranges on her skillshots (see: Morgana, Ezreal) which makes her even more reliant on her ult for positioning.

I feel like a lot of discussion on Ahri confuses design with balance. Try this: imagine whatever your favorite designed champion is, and then make them OP. It's like their weaknesses don't matter anymore! Ahri used to not need to compensate for her weaknesses, yes, but now that she's in a better place balance-wise, they're showing through more. This does not mean she was a bad design.

As for skipping over some champions... Yeah, I was speaking of the new bruisers and assassins, not ranged DPS champs or tanks or supports or whatever. Assassins and bruisers. I looked fro mthe wiki to see the list of their appearance, and I never skipped any assassins or bruisers. Why should I list Draven when he isn't an assassin, or Zyra when she isn't a bruiser. Of course I skip those guys, I have no problem with them. I do have problem with the new assassins and bruisers howeverm which is why I listed them.

I apologize. I forgot about the categorization because I think of Hecarim as more of a tank and Ahri as more of a mage. Definitely shouldn't have attacked you on this.

I find this exactly the opposite. Darius' release was hell, and I did not enjoy seeing him at all in any game. Don't know if you remember it, but Xin's release was pretty much the same if not worse. Every game Xin was in, he won the game. If there were 2, the better Xin won. He basically came up to you and boom, you basically could just go take a dump because nothing else you could do other than see your health bar diminish.

I guess this is more of a matter of taste. Darius is nothing like Xin was, though, and is a far better design than original Xin. Ignoring balance, the lack hard CC, lack of sustain, and lack of a gap closer gives Darius' opponents far more counterplay.

Yes, eve sucks quite bad and the remake was a complete failure. No matter how much you want to see her work (I did) it just doesn't make her viable.

The goal of the remake was not to have a completely balanced Eve, it was to get Eve to a state where she can be balanced. Pretty much all your criticisms can be solved with numbers buffs, which means the remake was a complete success.
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Exerosp

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Mid July Patch / Zyra - 1.0.0.143
« Reply #9557 on: August 10, 2012, 02:58:48 pm »

I don't know where the Eve hate is going. To me, it seems like you're facing the bad version, like a CarryYi or Trynd not rushing a IE.

Darius sucks as much as Eve IMO. Lee Sin can't handle her solo lane because of the lane-control, which kinda forces you to buy early wards. I'd guess she sucks ass on everything Cept 1v1 though, since I only had a problem early against her in the times I've faced Eve.
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penguinofhonor

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Mid July Patch / Zyra - 1.0.0.143
« Reply #9558 on: August 10, 2012, 03:12:58 pm »

Holy crap Rengar looks really cool. Everything about him just screams "hunting predator". And his passive is brilliant. I'd never expect them to capture the feel of pouncing at you out of the bushes... by letting him pounce at you out of the bushes.

And his ferocity is really neat. Along with his passive, it lets them put sustain and a gap closer and hard CC on the same kit by making them all very situational. He definitely looks like he'll have a lot of ability to adapt to the situation.

His item is sort of weird. I'm not sure why it exists. "Hey, let's make a snowball item for a single champion!" I'm gushing over the rest of his design but scratching my head at the necklace.
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RedKing

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Mid July Patch / Zyra - 1.0.0.143
« Reply #9559 on: August 10, 2012, 03:14:06 pm »

Yeah, I've never been impressed by Darius. He can do a lot of damage in close, but then there's a lot of characters you could say that about. His mobility is underwhelming, as is his ability to close on target. Flash/Ghost is virtually a requirement.

Seen far more feeder Dariuses than I have snowballing ones.
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Exerosp

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Mid July Patch / Zyra - 1.0.0.143
« Reply #9560 on: August 10, 2012, 03:24:17 pm »

Yeah, I've never been impressed by Darius. He can do a lot of damage in close, but then there's a lot of characters you could say that about. His mobility is underwhelming, as is his ability to close on target. Flash/Ghost is virtually a requirement.

Seen far more feeder Dariuses than I have snowballing ones.
Darius is spanked so hard by good ranged champs. He has the capability to utterly rape though. So I guess Eve is like Darius, but there's just so many people unable to play her at the proper level.
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frostshotgg

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Mid July Patch / Zyra - 1.0.0.143
« Reply #9561 on: August 10, 2012, 04:03:02 pm »

Rengar is really, really, really satisfying to play. He's also OP as fuck right now. He geets a free ashe passive on his Q, and his sustain is absolutely absurd. His stealh is on a crazy short cooldown, and let's not forget that his snowball can't be stopped. 1 stack lost on a kill? He can suicide into enemy teams and as long as he dies right at the start walk out of it with 4 more stacks.
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Realmfighter

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Mid July Patch / Zyra - 1.0.0.143
« Reply #9562 on: August 10, 2012, 04:10:12 pm »

Darius UP? What the what.

He gets countered by Jayce hard but if he's laning against another melee who needs to come close to farm he is going to win the laning phase as long as the player isn't mentally handy-capped. Top will be screaming for ganks, so you can even turn that fact into an advantage by roaming after pushing and warding like a motherfucker. And I don't know about other AD carries but whenever I play against a Teemo top I win anyway or get massively outplayed to the point where I would be feeding as anyone else and still going even.
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Jopax

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Mid July Patch / Zyra - 1.0.0.143
« Reply #9563 on: August 10, 2012, 06:14:28 pm »

Rengar is really, really, really satisfying to play. He's also OP as fuck right now. He geets a free ashe passive on his Q, and his sustain is absolutely absurd. His stealh is on a crazy short cooldown, and let's not forget that his snowball can't be stopped. 1 stack lost on a kill? He can suicide into enemy teams and as long as he dies right at the start walk out of it with 4 more stacks.

Rengar?

You on PBE?
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frostshotgg

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Mid July Patch / Zyra - 1.0.0.143
« Reply #9564 on: August 10, 2012, 06:28:51 pm »

Yeah. He's on PBE, as is Kat rework, and some Garen changes.
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Sharp

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Mid July Patch / Zyra - 1.0.0.143
« Reply #9565 on: August 10, 2012, 06:40:15 pm »

The main thing I don't like about Darius is that it doesn't matter how much a guy can suck with him, mid-late game in Team Fights he can still be there spamming that ulti and killing everyone.

I remember seeing horrible Darius junglers who couldn't do a single gank and tops who feed like crazy and can't get kills but once they get into teamfights with that ulti then bam, lots of dead people. I mean it was horrendous on release because doesn't even need to kill to get the cd refresh so easy to ace a teamfight.

As far as ulti's goes his is pretty freaking powerful.

And I'm a little tired of people arguing about how Darius scales with AD super well and how he doesn't need to build AD. He does not have absurd bases and absurd ratios. If you argue that then you're just wrong.

Yes because having an ability that scales 1.5 to your 1 bonus AD dealing true damage isn't op, and passive armour pen doesn't help AD absurdly much either.
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KaelGotDwarves

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Mid July Patch / Zyra - 1.0.0.143
« Reply #9566 on: August 10, 2012, 06:48:28 pm »

This is why I hate "theorycrafting".

The honest matter of it is that a bad darius will suck, whereas a good darius can spam ult for multiple quadra/penta-kills of true damage.

And he especially wrecks unsuspecting players that have no idea how good his ult is.

penguinofhonor

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Mid July Patch / Zyra - 1.0.0.143
« Reply #9567 on: August 10, 2012, 07:10:46 pm »

His ult does need changed. At first I didn't really have a problem with it because hey, people have been fine getting rewarded for kills on other champions and stuff. Then I saw a 0/5 darius snipe a double kill that he didn't deserve and I just felt bad for his team.
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frostshotgg

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Mid July Patch / Zyra - 1.0.0.143
« Reply #9568 on: August 10, 2012, 07:33:54 pm »

Darius in his present state is more toxic to fun gameplay than Shaco was for about a year.
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webadict

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Re: League of Legends Updated! - Mid July Patch / Zyra - 1.0.0.143
« Reply #9569 on: August 10, 2012, 09:28:25 pm »

His ult does need changed. At first I didn't really have a problem with it because hey, people have been fine getting rewarded for kills on other champions and stuff. Then I saw a 0/5 darius snipe a double kill that he didn't deserve and I just felt bad for his team.
Why? If anything, it's helping him get even stronger so that instead of that double kill, he's getting triple. Then quadra. Soon, you're wondering why on earth you're being penta-killed by a 0/5 Darius, until you realize he's now 14/9.

That's the trend with the newer champs. They snowball ridiculously hard. But, they also start ridiculously well. Even if they're shut down early, they can come back. It might take a few kills, but hey, they have the time. And then the snowball starts. Your team doesn't see it coming because you thought that the hard part was over. It wasn't. Diana was 0/10? Now she's 22/11. Darius was 1/9? 15/12. It basically comes to a point where you can enter the game, see a champ, and then go, well, this is going to be an hour and a half game where the newer champ sucks but then gets fed and proceeds to singlehandedly carry the game.

I seriously don't mind mild snowballers, but the hard snowballers ruin the fun of the game. I don't know how Diana got 26 kills, but she did, and now we're all dead.

Actually, screw your resetting ults, you stupid whore champions. You would be powerful even without that garbage, but you wouldn't snowball so hard.

How much fun would Kayle be with a resetting ult? How much fun would Karthus be with a resetting ult? How about Veigar? Hot diggity dog, let's give Tryndamere a resetting ult! What's that Ashe? You too? Okay. JK, we know that'd be silly. But we'll give it to Ahri. Also Malphite. And Cho'Gath, but that's it!

Nah, we gave it to Garen and Fiora, too. Hohoho! Merry Riotmas.

Because resetting ults have never lead to massive snowballers before. Except for every champ that has a resetting ult is a massive snowballer. So, the moral of the story is stop being stupid with resetting ults. All it does is make stopping the snowball early ridiculously hard. At least with the champs that have resetting ults now, there is some limit to it. They can be stopped. But Diana and Darius are real problems.
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