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[Toaster]

Vector:  That was a lot of words for not really explaining why you did it.  I think you said you didn't terribly suspect him, but thought if you were right you'd shake something damming out of him.  Further, I think you were trying to say you didn't get anything useful. Is all that correct?

If so, you don't seem to have a next step.  Do you not have any other suspects?

Why are you answering questions for Web?

[webadict]

SaintDraze

Native foreigner looked like he was hiding something.
His role was useless anyway, the last remaining scum role would show innocent since every role is used in this game...

Unless of course he could have used his contacts to find a doctor...

Let's look at the obvious reason of a confirmed Town: Since he's a Cop, his purpose is now moot, but there is only ever one Cop. There is also only one Mafia - the Godfather - who would be really, really stupid to claim Cop. But, if you want to do that, then go ahead. I'm not stopping you.

Now let's look at the underlying subconscious of yours: You know right off the bat that the Cop is useless, implying that you're either actually paying attention, or that you're the Godfather. I'd have to say that from your missing of the first point that you AREN'T paying attention.

For the third reason, you are somehow congratulating the scum AND complaining about the Night, both of which are pretty scummy in themselves, but combined with the first and second points make you look like you're an idiot.

And then you make a point about finding the Doctor, and that's just a straight-up facepalm. No one needs to find the Doctor. This is really just a point about how little you're actually paying attention, strengthening points 1-3.

Vector.  The argument I made yesterday stands.

Reading over Zrk2, you were his favorite person to interact with.  That strikes me as a new scum distancing to the point of tunneling.

Also, your question to Jokerman today is asking him to indulge in WIFOM.

That is really stupid of you Toaster. You're second on the scumlist, mostly for your insisting hammer yesterday, but you're actually using WIFOM as a reasoning behind Vector while also complaining about WIFOM. Isn't that, oh, I don't know, hypocritical?

Yeah. Yeah it is. So, if you WANT to vote Vector now, you're going to need a really good post. Outstandingly good, actually. And, you're going to be under scrutiny from me as well. Don't want me to defend her? Probably should've thought about that before you said anything stupid.

Vector and Web:  I'm quite interested in hearing your detailed reasons, whenever you get around to posting them.

Oh don't worry. I just needed a couple of hours. I'm really wanting to see a good post from you about Vector. Go on. Shoo. Go collect your petty scraps.

Nah I am just thinking from scum's perspective. I for one thought native was definably hiding something, I guess that scum thought so to.

@ toaster: I am not interested in finding the doctor now, I was just thinking of what would justify the usefulness of a cop when everyone he inspects from now on will be innocent.

Even the act of claiming cop will result in jack shit unless he ge- unless he gets flavor from who ever he inspects, who can then confirm him to be cop >.<

You cannot be serious with that first line of yours. You THOUGHT Native was hiding something? Like, hiding something scummy, or hiding something power role related? You're obviously not thinking quite on the ball here. Whoever said it was right: You're not scumhunting, which is another strike against you. You kinda deserved it.

Just... read up on confirmed Town before you talk.

Web: Since when do you defend people?

Since I felt like it. Got a problem with it? Ironic that some people who should know about this aren't answering it for me. Even if the answer was posed to me, there are people out there who actually have lots of examples. Funny enough...

Vector:  That was a lot of words for not really explaining why you did it.  I think you said you didn't terribly suspect him, but thought if you were right you'd shake something damming out of him.  Further, I think you were trying to say you didn't get anything useful. Is all that correct?

If so, you don't seem to have a next step.  Do you not have any other suspects?

Why are you answering questions for Web?

How about you make a real post? Because I'm not liking your style right now. Mostly because you're saying thing without showing things based on previous things where I'm not seeing things. Quotes or GTFO.

On a side note, why AREN'T you answering questions that you could? Didn't... didn't I defend you in Paranormal? Oh, that's right. I did. You seem to be going after Vector for answering questions for me, despite her HAVING THE ANSWERS. You ALSO had the answers, didn't you? Hmm... Odd. Odd indeed.

You're going to either back off Vector, make an AIRTIGHT case, or I'm going to make sure you get lynched. In fact, you'll have to do the second option no matter what. Yeah, I'm a jerk. Deal with it.

[Pandarsenic]

Pan watched them as each spoke. More and more, it seemed he was moving away from simply trying to keep them away from each other at night and towards determining whom to deal with himself. He spun the white pawn that had represented Zrk2 over and over in his hands as he turned his critical gaze on each of the participants, ignoring an assistant of his who was trying to get his attention.

Jokerman-EXE - 1 - Vector
Leafsnail - 0 -
lordnincompoop - 0 -
SaintDraze - 2 - Leafsnail lordnincompoop
Toaster - 0 -
Vector - 1 - Toaster
webadict - 0 -

Not Voting: Jokerman-EXE SaintDraze webadict

Day 2 ending Thursday, 9 PM Pacific. 7 Players alive. Hammer at 4, extend at 2, shorten at 4.

[Zrk2]

Ugh, shitty play was shitty. However, that was also my first time as scum... Shit. CURSE YOU TOWN!!!

[Vector]

Vector, would you mind telling me how I rated, then? You didn't unvote, but you didn't state that you actually thought I was scum, either.

I voted for you because you didn't basically didn't post yesterday (and definitely didn't vote), and I really hate lurker scum.

I didn't unvote because I need time to think, and time to think does not happen right when I need to run off to my rhetoric lecture.

It's going to be a while, but I'll work on it.  I'll probably have a case on my big suspect by mid-day tomorrow.  Lots of homework, lots of thinking, etc., etc.  I'd do it in the morning, but... I have to spruce up more than I usually do, so that I can go on my date later :3

Vector:  That was a lot of words for not really explaining why you did it.  I think you said you didn't terribly suspect him, but thought if you were right you'd shake something damming out of him.  Further, I think you were trying to say you didn't get anything useful. Is all that correct?

If so, you don't seem to have a next step.  Do you not have any other suspects?

Why are you answering questions for Web?

a. Oh, why I went for Jokerman, specifically?  See above.  I had no read on him.  I just wanted to see what would happen, and he seemed to be the best person to levy the first rally at.  Hadn't shown up, didn't have much to say, wasn't going to be able to just parry the blow aside.

b. Sure I have other suspects.  I didn't want only his reaction.  I wanted to see what everyone would do.  Now I've got that piece of information, and I continue to have suspects.

c. Because I had the right information, and it seemed relevant.  What, think we're scumbuddies?

[Jokerman-EXE]

You didn't answer me when I asked how I rated, though; in fact, in that entire post, you sidestepped the issue of whether or not you actually thought I was scummy at all. You promise more later, without voicing a suspicion or unvoting, while also claiming to not have an actual read on me?

I understand the importance of having a life (have fun on your date, by the way), but I'll be waiting to see what you have to say tomorrow. Homework and relationships are more important.

[Vector]

You didn't answer me when I asked how I rated, though; in fact, in that entire post, you sidestepped the issue of whether or not you actually thought I was scummy at all. You promise more later, without voicing a suspicion or unvoting, while also claiming to not have an actual read on me?

I understand the importance of having a life (have fun on your date, by the way), but I'll be waiting to see what you have to say tomorrow. Homework and relationships are more important.

Thank you :3


I'm going to outline, because I have time for that.

a. I don't have much information about you, and after the end of yesterday I wasn't sure what was going on.  This was the fastest way to get a lot of information simultaneously.  When in doubt, rock the boat.  That is the reason for my initial vote at the beginning of the day.

b. I like my vote where it is right now, thank you.  My vote and muteness are currently gathering information for me.  We've got plenty of time in the day left, and this information is more valuable to me right now than that which the usual scumhunting rubric would net.

There's more than one flavor of aggression.

c. I can't say you're scummy or not-scummy right now because I have little information on you.  One question will give you something, but more questions--and/or an awkwardly lingering vote--will give you something else.

As I said, I'm getting my goods on you (and the other players) as we speak.

d. I've got some ideas, but i. they need time--literal time--and ii. they'll be far better served by adding another layer of information.  This layer.

e. I should have a full case on precisely one of the players tomorrow and not a suspect, but someone whom I wish to hang.  My scum-o-meter is twitching mighty fierce towards someone in particular.

[Toaster]

Web/Vector:  I'm addressing this to both of you since you seem inexplicably joined at the hip.

Vector.  The argument I made yesterday stands.

Reading over Zrk2, you were his favorite person to interact with.  That strikes me as a new scum distancing to the point of tunneling.

Also, your question to Jokerman today is asking him to indulge in WIFOM.

That is really stupid of you Toaster. You're second on the scumlist, mostly for your insisting hammer yesterday, but you're actually using WIFOM as a reasoning behind Vector while also complaining about WIFOM. Isn't that, oh, I don't know, hypocritical?

Yeah. Yeah it is. So, if you WANT to vote Vector now, you're going to need a really good post. Outstandingly good, actually. And, you're going to be under scrutiny from me as well. Don't want me to defend her? Probably should've thought about that before you said anything stupid.

I'll give you half a point on the Zrk2 question.  I'm going to analyze what known scum said and did and try to see if there's any useful connections to be made.  I think there is one.  However, that wasn't a point in my original case on Vector, so it's hardly the most important point.

And the hammer thing is crap. I missed your unvote; oh well.  I'm not the mod, so it's not my call.

Feel free to defend her.  However, I really want to know why you think she's town.  Clearly you have reasons, since you're so vehement in your defense of her.

Vector:  That was a lot of words for not really explaining why you did it.  I think you said you didn't terribly suspect him, but thought if you were right you'd shake something damming out of him.  Further, I think you were trying to say you didn't get anything useful. Is all that correct?

If so, you don't seem to have a next step.  Do you not have any other suspects?

Why are you answering questions for Web?

How about you make a real post? Because I'm not liking your style right now. Mostly because you're saying thing without showing things based on previous things where I'm not seeing things. Quotes or GTFO.

On a side note, why AREN'T you answering questions that you could? Didn't... didn't I defend you in Paranormal? Oh, that's right. I did. You seem to be going after Vector for answering questions for me, despite her HAVING THE ANSWERS. You ALSO had the answers, didn't you? Hmm... Odd. Odd indeed.

You're going to either back off Vector, make an AIRTIGHT case, or I'm going to make sure you get lynched. In fact, you'll have to do the second option no matter what. Yeah, I'm a jerk. Deal with it.

If Joker asked you a question, I'm going to assume it's because he wanted to hear your answer on it.  He didn't say "Vector, since when does Web defend people?"

Case is below.

Vector:  That was a lot of words for not really explaining why you did it.  I think you said you didn't terribly suspect him, but thought if you were right you'd shake something damming out of him.  Further, I think you were trying to say you didn't get anything useful. Is all that correct?

If so, you don't seem to have a next step.  Do you not have any other suspects?

Why are you answering questions for Web?

a. Oh, why I went for Jokerman, specifically?  See above.  I had no read on him.  I just wanted to see what would happen, and he seemed to be the best person to levy the first rally at.  Hadn't shown up, didn't have much to say, wasn't going to be able to just parry the blow aside.

b. Sure I have other suspects.  I didn't want only his reaction.  I wanted to see what everyone would do.  Now I've got that piece of information, and I continue to have suspects.

c. Because I had the right information, and it seemed relevant.  What, think we're scumbuddies?

a.  Fair enough.

b.  Why aren't you sharing what you have?

c. Of course not.  I wanted to know why you were doing it.


I suppose your previous post answers question b, though.  I must say I rather disagree with such a passive style.


Anyway, summary of case on Vector:

The claims of being rusty bugged me early on as an attempt to set up a safety net after a mislynch.  Her early D1 picks are a newbie and a lurker.

Day 2 Vector starts with a strong accusation, but is then passive, passive, passive, passive.  I am irked when people say they have suspects but don't share them. 

It's not as strong as I'd like it to be, but Vector is my #1 pick right now and I have yet to see any convincing reason to change. 


Jokerman:  Why are you so interested in how you look in the eyes of others?

[Jokerman-EXE]

Oh, blow me. That's not what I was doing and you know it. I wanted to know why her vote was staying on me when she hadn't even said I was suspicious, not "OH NO VECTOR STOP VOTING ME WHAT CAN I DO TO BE BETTER" and you know it. Identifying a possible scum move isn't trying to appear like anything.

And seriously, I might have missed it, but why is Web acting like this?

[webadict]

Acting like what? Perhaps being clear would help you out?

[webadict]

There are two people that need to talk more: SaintDraze and Leafsnail.

Oh, blow me. That's not what I was doing and you know it. I wanted to know why her vote was staying on me when she hadn't even said I was suspicious, not "OH NO VECTOR STOP VOTING ME WHAT CAN I DO TO BE BETTER" and you know it. Identifying a possible scum move isn't trying to appear like anything.

And seriously, I might have missed it, but why is Web acting like this?

Oh, and by the way, is that question an attempt to get people to vote me, instead of going through any effort to find evidence yourself? Because all I see is a very passive attack right there, and that last one too:

NativeForeigner would have been the obvious choice, because of all of his connections to various people etc. How the scum wanted us to feel after the flip is probably something different for each player, so their goal would be accomplished: confusion.

Web: Since when do you defend people?

SaintDraze: You seem shockingly cavalier about this entire situation - almost satisfied. Why am I getting the strong feeling that you know something about this?

Since when do I defend people. I like how when I answer the question, you simply jump to everyone else to try and make me look scummy for you. It's a really terrible try, I'll give you that, but you might want to consider doing something. Productive.

On a side note, who cares about NativeForeigner being killed? I'll disagree that he was the best kill, since I am almost 99% sure LNCP is town, and he had a relatively smaller chance of being protected.

And you're asking a stupid question to SaintDraze.

[Jokerman-EXE]

Wow dude. Talk about acting completely different.

For one thing, no, I'm not attacking you. I'm asking you a goddam question, and I really, truly don't see where you're getting this whole "attack" angle out of it.

And when it comes to doing something productive, webadict, then how about you try it before prescribing it to me? All you've done thus far today is "HEY NOW NOBODY ATTACK THESE PEOPLE THERE WITH ME" bullshit and say that you're going to post more reasons later. Which you haven't.

So how about you explain instead of being a gigantic asshole about everything? Since this seems to be the "make webadict not like his normal self" game.

[webadict]

Wow dude. Talk about acting completely different.

For one thing, no, I'm not attacking you. I'm asking you a goddam question, and I really, truly don't see where you're getting this whole "attack" angle out of it.

And when it comes to doing something productive, webadict, then how about you try it before prescribing it to me? All you've done thus far today is "HEY NOW NOBODY ATTACK THESE PEOPLE THERE WITH ME" bullshit and say that you're going to post more reasons later. Which you haven't.

So how about you explain instead of being a gigantic asshole about everything? Since this seems to be the "make webadict not like his normal self" game.

Except that there is only 1 scum, so there's no real problem with trusting me: Either I'm not scum, and therefore my opinion is valid, or I am scum, and therefore they can't be scum. Didn't think that line of reasoning through, did you?

So, therefore, my townhunting has done plenty. Now, where you get this "reasoning" business seems to be confused. I was giving reasons for SaintDraze, which I did do. Soooo... yeah. I did. It's really your fault you completely misunderstood.

As for the "not attacking" thing: That's pretty much my point. You're passive attacking, meaning you're not making an actual attack, but you're waiting for someone to pick up your dangling stick and attack me for you. See the difference? Actually attacking me would take effort on your part.

I see no problems so far.

[Vector]

I'm sick with what may be the flu, so you're going to have to wait a bit longer.

Sorry.

[Leafsnail]

Nah I am just thinking from scum's perspective. I for one thought native was definably hiding something, I guess that scum thought so to.

Interesting.  When I think that someone's hiding something, my first thought is "they're scum, I better press them over it" not "they're the cop".  This isn't valid reasoning unless you already know he can't be scum.

@LeafSnail
I was rereading over the pages looking for something to ask you about when I realized that my line of questioning was really complete shit.
But I didn't want to come out as a complete failure on day one...
So I saw that most attacked person was Zrk2 and read up on him...

Seems like a perfectly valid motivation... if you don't care about finding scum.

Oh, blow me. That's not what I was doing and you know it. I wanted to know why her vote was staying on me when she hadn't even said I was suspicious, not "OH NO VECTOR STOP VOTING ME WHAT CAN I DO TO BE BETTER" and you know it. Identifying a possible scum move isn't trying to appear like anything.

And seriously, I might have missed it, but why is Web acting like this?

Ah, you're playing the "I'm not gonna vote for anyone or say anything useful" game?