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[Ephemeriis]

There's also the issue that, now, every single CCP employee refuses to answer, "Will game-effecting items make it into the cash store?"

Also, read these.

Everyone keeps saying this is the big problem...  That CCP is being all suspiciously tight-lipped about it...  But that just seems stupid to me.

Of course game-effecting items will make it into the cash store.  Maybe not now.  Maybe not soon.  But it will happen.  The entire freaking industry is moving towards cash stores and microtransactions and pay-to-win.  CCP, eventually, isn't going to have much of a choice.

The problem is that players are looking for a promise that game-effecting items will never make it into the cash store.  And there's no way in hell CCP is going to give them such a promise.  And anything short of that promise is going to be seen as a betrayal.  So it's no wonder CCP is keeping quiet on that front.  I just think it's a little naive of the players to be looking for such a promise in the first place.

since CCP appeared to be more focused on adding eye candy than fixing old issues ore making the game fun to play.

This is something that all game developers face - do we add something new and interesting, or do we fix something old and broken?

Like it or not, folks like to see change.  If you announce Incarna 1.0, now with fewer bugs - and there's absolutely no new content, just bug fixes, folks are going to rant that it was a wasted expansion.  If you announce Incarna 1.0, now with CQ - and there are still old bugs in the content, folks are going to rant that it was a wasted expansion.  You can't make everyone happy.

The decision to explicitly remove support for older computers was also a nail in the coffin; while my computer is a little old it could still support things, but poorly.  But, in my mind, the path to success is not to tell people they need new hardware to play your game.  If you look at the king of the MMO-hill, you can run that on almost decade-old hardware (I used to run it on a PowerMac G4).  This mentality ultimately caused me to let my subscription expire.

I'll assume you're referring to WoW.  WoW's system requirements have gone up over the years as well.  Maybe not as much as EVE's...  But I'll tell you right now, when I last played WoW my aging computer was basically unable to handle Lich King raiding.  Even with everything turned down - it was still a slideshow. 

It happens.  Technology improves, software is written to take advantage of the new technology, and folks with old hardware get left behind.  If it didn't happen now it would've happened eventually.

I played the game because it was technical, it was space, and it was low-key.  But it wasn't really engaging or fun unless you were involved heavily in the meta-game.  This aspect is also a pain, and while it has always been important in EVE, I think the increase in the meta-game through microtransactions just went a bit too far for most people.

One of the things I've always loved about EVE is that the metagame is a real, legitimate part of gameplay.  All sorts of politics and scheming and double-crossing.  Most other MMOGs don't allow that kind of metagame.

That's also one of the things that always pushes me away from EVE.  If you don't find a good corporation that can actually participate in the metagame, you get left behind pretty quickly.

I don't really see how the NEX is messing with the metagame any more that PLEX does.  You're still paying for stuff with real cash.

Granted, now you're poofing items out of a database instead of buying something on the market that's been manufactured by other players...  But you're still paying to win.

Sure, it's fun to rage and riot, but when the last thing you hear before the devs leave for the weekend is this:

...
It’s clear that many of you are _angry_. There’s a lot happening, things are changing quickly and we haven’t been as forthcoming as you were used to in the past. I’m willing to step out front and take a lot of heat for that since I was the one who made the decision to hold off on responding for a while to see if things cooled down once the new wore off.
...

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536065&page=1

... well it's not too hard to understand people being afraid that ccp has given up on what had seemed to be a pretty player-oriented game design philosophy.

I agree whole-heartedly.

Folks don't seem to realize that running a successful MMOG is a partnership.  The developers need the goodwill of the players, so that they'll keep logging in, playing, and paying their bills.  But the players need the goodwill of the developers, so that they've still got a game to log in to and play.

If the players don't care about the game, they'll just wander off and play something else.

If the developers don't care about the players, they'll just throw random shit in until the playerbase evaporates.

It's a two-way street.  And communication is key to this.  CCP's communication has definitely declined.  And that is definitely an issue.

Beyond that, however, I'm not sure that it was a bad idea to let this sit for a while.  I mean, obviously it didn't work out the way CCP hoped...  But there was a lot of resistance to this update before it even came out.  If people actually played with it for a few days and saw that the sky was not actually falling, there might not have been so much rage.

Wile I will agree that communication is important, and failed miserably in recent history...  I don't think Incarna isn't a sign of the end-times like so many people on the forum seem to think.  The cash store has basically no impact on the game right now.  You can turn off the CQ.  There's one or two shortcuts that don't work anymore, but there's still about three other ways to accomplish what those shortcuts did.  The system requirements did go up...  But it isn't like they're insanely high.  I can still play on my crappy, work-issued laptop.

And if you listen to those Chicken Little's rioting in Jita, you'd think that this one patch has suddenly turned EVE into The SIMs.

Plus, e-rioting is fun. Don't tell me that disco ball outside Jita 4-4 wasn't pretty...

At this point I'd be willing to bet that's about the only motivation left for most players.

It seems like the folks who had legitimate complaints were vocal on the first day, and the folks screaming since then are just doing it for fun.

My concern at this point is that all the raging and rioting is doing more harm than good.  Legitimate complaints are being drowned-out by stupid wardecs and random publicity stunts.  Folks who would genuinely try to help the players are now busy locking threads and cleaning up images.

[dragonshardz]

Meanwhile, at Bay12 Headquarters...

So, I've been looking at the bounty office. If we want to get some good PVP practice in as Ash Rose, I think bounty hunting for a little while may be a good idea.

Still unsure where to base HFS out of, though. Any suggestions, other EVE players?

[Silfurdreki]

I'd advice you to not look at the bounty board too hard, that mechanic has been broken since the game was released. The thing is that anyone can claim the bounties on there, so when you get a high enough bounty, just have one of your corp members kill you and split the bounty. This leaves only players who want to be hunted on the bounty board. As you can imagine, these people are very experienced and they probably have backup at hand at almost any time.

[dragonshardz]

I'm primarily looking at it as a way to practice skills that will be vital to finding targets as pirates/pirate hunters - finding hidden things, PVP, etc.

[LordMelvin]

Still unsure where to base HFS out of, though. Any suggestions, other EVE players?

I've always been partial to the Amarrian back-of-beyond Khanid sector lowsec systems, myself, though I'm currently based in more centrally located HiSec systems for some faction-grinding pve. It's a good region to be in with a small (5-25 player), independent corp, because it's so untravelled.

[LordBucket]

Still unsure where to base HFS out of, though. Any suggestions, other EVE players?

One possible angle to consider: looking to the long-term, if you plan to do any mission running, it's to your benefit to pick a corporation and do all your missions for that corp, in order to gain standing and gain access to higher level missions. If you do missions haphazardly for whomever happens to be nearby, your standing gains will be spread out and you'll end up being only able to do level 1 missions for a bunch of people instead of higher level missions for a single corp.

So I'd suggest identifying some faction-specific loyalty rewards that you might eventually want, picking a corp that sells them, and settling in a system with a bunch of agents for that corp. For example, if you're planning to focus on missile combat, the Caldari Navy would be a good candidate corp, and thus, Perimeter would probably be a good choice of place to settle. Though temporarily inconvenienced by all the rioting in nearby Jita. But again, that's just an example. Pick a system with lots of agents for one particular corp that will give you loyalty rewards you'll benefit from.

I'm primarily looking at it as a way to practice skills that will be vital to finding targets as pirates/pirate hunters - finding hidden things, PVP, etc.

I'll reiterate what others have said: bounty hunting is not really practical.

If you want to learn piracy, I'd recommend you forget about it for your first couple months of play. Train skills, grind missions, get ISK. Get familiar with the game. Then when you can afford to lose a couple fully fitted ships, get together with some B12ers and ask them to teach you how to gatecamp. I recommend against trying to just figure it out on your own.

finding targets as pirates/pirate hunters

Sadly, probably the best way to learn to hunt pirates is to be a pirate for a while so you know what to expect. Do NOT go out solo in your shiny new battleship looking for pirates to kill. I recommend your first few trips to nullsec be in a punisher, or something.

[dragonshardz]

Still unsure where to base HFS out of, though. Any suggestions, other EVE players?

One possible angle to consider: looking to the long-term, if you plan to do any mission running, it's to your benefit to pick a corporation and do all your missions for that corp, in order to gain standing and gain access to higher level missions. If you do missions haphazardly for whomever happens to be nearby, your standing gains will be spread out and you'll end up being only able to do level 1 missions for a bunch of people instead of higher level missions for a single corp.

So I'd suggest identifying some faction-specific loyalty rewards that you might eventually want, picking a corp that sells them, and settling in a system with a bunch of agents for that corp. For example, if you're planning to focus on missile combat, the Caldari Navy would be a good candidate corp, and thus, Perimeter would probably be a good choice of place to settle. Though temporarily inconvenienced by all the rioting in nearby Jita. But again, that's just an example. Pick a system with lots of agents for one particular corp that will give you loyalty rewards you'll benefit from.

I'm primarily looking at it as a way to practice skills that will be vital to finding targets as pirates/pirate hunters - finding hidden things, PVP, etc.

I'll reiterate what others have said: bounty hunting is not really practical.

If you want to learn piracy, I'd recommend you forget about it for your first couple months of play. Train skills, grind missions, get ISK. Get familiar with the game. Then when you can afford to lose a couple fully fitted ships, get together with some B12ers and ask them to teach you how to gatecamp. I recommend against trying to just figure it out on your own.

finding targets as pirates/pirate hunters

Sadly, probably the best way to learn to hunt pirates is to be a pirate for a while so you know what to expect. Do NOT go out solo in your shiny new battleship looking for pirates to kill. I recommend your first few trips to nullsec be in a punisher, or something.

We're already getting a B12er corp together - we just need somewhere to base it. I'd prefer to find a corp that gives bonuses that everyone can use no matter what race - armor bonuses and the like.

[Fikes]

I resubbed, here is what I  found.

I have 19 million skill points, and another 700k that I can spend on anything (from learning skills that got refunded) and 126m isk.

I have at least two battle ships and one covert ops ship. I have a bunch of stuff spread all over the galaxy.

I have a 8.14 standing with the Royal Khanid Navy, 6.65 with the Amarr Navy (56,100 LP points with them), and 6.57 with Zoar and Sons (wtf? No idea how that one happened).

I am currently stationed in the dead end system of Finid. It seems to be pretty decent. I have a level 3 agent here and a level 4 one system over.

It would work for a base, for both groups, but we would be lining ourselves up with the Amarr Navy. Thoughts?

[ductape]

...stuff..

We're already getting a B12er corp together - we just need somewhere to base it. I'd prefer to find a corp that gives bonuses that everyone can use no matter what race - armor bonuses and the like.

I have long been partial to Molden Heath. Theres an easy low-sec route to Jita if you need it, but it distance from Jita makes it a good marketplace. It has some low-sec to prowl around in and serves as a gateway to the drone regions as well as the entire eastern side of the map. I made some profit in that place.

[dragonshardz]

I resubbed, here is what I  found.

I have 19 million skill points, and another 700k that I can spend on anything (from learning skills that got refunded) and 126m isk.

I have at least two battle ships and one covert ops ship. I have a bunch of stuff spread all over the galaxy.

I have a 8.14 standing with the Royal Khanid Navy, 6.65 with the Amarr Navy (56,100 LP points with them), and 6.57 with Zoar and Sons (wtf? No idea how that one happened).

I am currently stationed in the dead end system of Finid. It seems to be pretty decent. I have a level 3 agent here and a level 4 one system over.

It would work for a base, for both groups, but we would be lining ourselves up with the Amarr Navy. Thoughts?

Sounds acceptable to me. ductape, Molden Heath sounds like a good place to have a secondary base.

Well, gents, as soon as we get two more members, we can get this off the ground.

[Grakelin]

I used to dabble in EVE. If I had any disposable income at the moment, I would join you for some mindnumbing manual labour fun, but I'll have to pass this time.

[LordBucket]

getting a B12er corp together

Someone post a referral link. If we're forming a dedicated bay12 corp, I'll consider joining. I have a couple characters I could reactivate...probably. In the meantime, I'd be happy to play a 21 day trial with you guys.

we just need somewhere to base it.

Advice:
Agree on a compatible race pairing for members. It doesn't matter if startng races are different, but it matters very much if people do missions for corps that are at war with each other. Some fraction of each member's reputation gains are applied to the corp, which then applies to every member. So, if for example, you have 3 players doing missions for the Minmatar, and 1 player doing missions for the Amarr, then that one player will not only be slowing down "effective" rep for the other three, he'll also have a horrible time getting his own net rep up to useful levels.

Amarr/Caldari or Minmatar/Gallente.

I'd prefer to find a corp that gives bonuses that everyone can use
no matter what race - armor bonuses and the like.

Makes sense, but your example does not. Armor fittings are mostly worthless to a typical Caldari pilot, for example.

If I recall correctly, and assuming these things haven't changed significantly since I was last active...I would speculate that Gallente/Minmatar would probably be the wiser choice, assuming everyone is starting from scratch. But personally my characters have generally been heavy on Amarr/Khanid/Caldari corp missions, and I see some others in this thread who've said the same.

I have a 8.14 standing with the Royal Khanid Navy, 6.65 with the Amarr Navy

we would be lining ourselves up with the Amarr Navy. Thoughts?

I remember liking the corner of the galaxy that the Khanid Kingdom sits in, but...here's the thing: Personally when I played, I started off Amarr, flew Amarr ships for six months, then abandoned it completely and switched to Caldari. It's been a while since I've been an active player, but of all four races, I personally found the Amarr to be the least effective. Lasers are basically just awful, and armor tanking just isn't as good as shield tanking. Just this pilot's opinion. And from what I remember, the Khanid loyalty rewards are mostly implants that I never found useful. If I were to start all over again, there's no way I'd have had anything to do with the Amarr.

But...your standings are high enough to do missions of any level. (I think. The system was changed fairly recently, but it's out of a max of 10, so yours is very high.) Starting over doing level 1 missions...there's no way you're going to want to do that. The amoutn of time investment to get access to level 4-5 missions...it doesn't make sense to start over when you've already done that grind.

Possible suggestions:

1) Bay12 corp goes Minmatar/Gallente, and the few people with existing characters with incompatible faction standings will drag the newer players down for a while, but everyone just accepts it.

2) Bay12 corp goes Amarr/Caldari. Note that the protests going on in Jita right now might make things unpleasant for a new player in Caldari space.

Well, gents, as soon as we get two more members, we can get this off the ground.

Somebody post a 21 day referral link, and I'll make a character right now.

[LordMelvin]

pm me your email and I'll get you a 21-day trial.

Also, Gallente ships aren't all that hot, and the minmatar are ugly buckets of rust. I encourage amarrishness just to save all that 'mucking about with ammo' stuff that the missiles and projectiles and hybrids deal with.

[LordMelvin]

sent. anyone else? I've got 9 more this month.

[LordBucket]

Amarr Navy

Sounds acceptable to me. ductape, Molden Heath sounds like a good place

I encourage amarrishness

Sounds like the consensus is Amarr. Ok.

I'm downloading now. Do we have a corp yet?

Also. who's in charge of this thing? Dragonshardz? Sir Finkus? Can we update the initial post of this thread with members, corp name, chat channel, etc. where-to-start information, for new players, etc.? Also, LordMelvin potentially gets free gametime if we register via his referral rather than the website, plus you get 21 days on your trial instead of 14, so it's to everyone's benefit to do it that way.

Also, this is going to be a bay12 group, right? Everyone participating in this discussion is going to be in the same corp, yes? Last time I looked into bay12 and eve, there were a lot of players who were already in corps, and sometimes those corps were at war with each other, so even though there were a bunch of bay12 people in Eve, none of us were actually playing together. I'd prefer to avoid that.