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[Jim Groovester]

Jokerman-EXE caused a no-lynch, a bad move by any standard. Then he went and tried to spin it as a protown thing while at the same time saying it wasn't intentional.
Jokerman-EXE was scummy, not necessarily for the no-lynch on its own, but the excuses he used to explain it. And so I completely agree with Leafsnail's apparent reason for shooting him. And I find them far better than Pandarsenic's lazy statistical shootings.

Bullshit. It's a bad move for a town enchanter, but it's a much worse move for a scum enchanter. That alone made him town in my mind. I find it hard to believe you think killing him was a sound move. Pretty much killing anyone else would have been a better move. I had you pegged as town, but you're giving me reasons to doubt that now.

That's stupid. Why would you think anybody's town because they made a mistake? Because that's what it was. Why would you inject purpose and alignment into an obvious mistake? Because, you know, town and scum can both do that.

You're also completely ignoring my point. You're telling me that Jokerman-EXE's excuses for the no lynch didn't come across to you as scummy? I find that hard to believe that you'd be town and would say that.

Because Pandar's is lazy, but borderline justifiable. Leaf's on the other hand, can't be seen as protown in any circumstances. It was worse than lazy, it was actively anti-town.

Pfffffffffffffffft. Borderline justifiable. The bullshit you'll spew to make your dopp vig scumbuddy's actions seem almost acceptable.

[Book]

That's stupid. Why would you think anybody's town because they made a mistake? Because that's what it was. Why would you inject purpose and alignment into an obvious mistake? Because, you know, town and scum can both do that.

You're also completely ignoring my point. You're telling me that Jokerman-EXE's excuses for the no lynch didn't come across to you as scummy? I find that hard to believe that you'd be town and would say that.

Because it betrays their alignment. People can word things skillfully or dumbly during the day play regardless of alignment, but using powers is demonstratively hard data. Once he claimed, with no counterclaims, it was clear and undisputable that he was an enchanter. Since the move was merely "bad" if town, but "horribly incompetent" if scum, I deduced he was town regardless of how scummy his excuses were for it (and I was right, wasn't I?). Had he been scum, he'd have also a scumchat where three other people would be yelling at him over how stupid it would be if there were no lynch D1, how utterly counterproductive it would be to keep Janus alive. Even Jokerman would have reacted to that and moved his vote.

And you are still missing my point: regardless of his "scummy" excuses, he was a confirmed enchanter, and far from probable dopp. Sure, he may be incompetent and had incompetent scumbuddies, may not have been "confirmed townie" in your eyes, but KILL HIM!? when there were several scummier players? Hell no. Killing Jokerman was horribly anti-town, even if you weren't sure of his alignment. There were half a dozen better candidates. From Leaf's decision to kill him anyway, I deduce he's scum.


So, Jim/Leafsnail: what's missing on my claim? How is it not full?

[Leafsnail]

How about you explain to me the scenario where a no lynch can result in a town victory.

Book has been vigged!

Book was a Doppelganger leader!

Argembarger has been vigged!

Argembarger was a Doppelganger warden!

I fail to see how lynching a townie beforehand would help.

Oh? Please enlighten us then. I am a town telepath, I investigated Jim N1 and got "Find". Night 2 I targeted Dariush, but was blocked by a warden, chains flavour. I woke up with the taste of carpet on my mouth. What am I leaving out? Either prove this, or it's one more nail on your scummy lying coffin.

So, you did remember to add in the "falseclaim" part of your falseclaim eventually.  I love the way you're pretending it was there all along.

Yes, Jokerman was an enchanter, and that was clear.  I'd say Jokerman's end of day one would've been horribly incompetant as town and an interesting WIFOM move as scum.  He was scummy as hell throughout day 2 and I didn't want 2 votes in scum hands today.

[Argembarger]

No Lynch.  Hey, don't let me stop you from outing yourself, Book.

You decided not to bother to claim, and voted me because I said I would kill you for not claiming.  Noted.

Even if that's true, we should still try to get a lynch. Doing nothing, I'm fairly certain, will result in a town loss.

Unless you don't care about that.

Uh, no.

Even if all the non-doppelganger players correctly identify a doppelganger and vote for them, it's still a townloss unless they're all in the same direction.  The result that occurs in the miracle scenario that every town player is simultaneously enlightened?  A no lynch.  I'd rather take the safe way to it than the dangerous way, and that will at least allow us the chance to kill them tonight.

Book: you did NOT fully claim.  There is a piece of information you should know but which you haven't revealed.  It is a piece of information that a falseclaimer might well forget, but one which I think someone with a genuine role would not.

The NativeForeigner thing: uh, thought they were placed at night.  Nevermind then.

Jokerman wasted the day one lynch and was being passive and useless throughout day 2.  I was wrong, but he was hardly a confirmed townie.

If idiots want to vote me even though there's no chance of getting a doppelganger lynch... whatever, be my guest.  The game will end tomorrow with a scum victory.

This is nothing but bullshit.

Leafsnail.

How about you explain to me the scenario where a no lynch can result in a town victory.

Book has been vigged!

Book was a Doppelganger leader!

Argembarger has been vigged!

Argembarger was a Doppelganger warden!

I fail to see how lynching a townie beforehand would help.

Wait, what? I blocked Book last night. How does this scenario even make sense?

If anything, I'm going to get nightkilled tonight, seeing as how I'm the last Warden alive.

No, this whole no-kill thing is dumb. We need to lynch scum, we need to lynch scum that has a vigkill, and you've made it exceedingly clear who that scum is.

[Jim Groovester]

How about you explain to me the scenario where a no lynch can result in a town victory.

Book has been vigged!

Book was a Doppelganger leader!

Argembarger has been vigged!

Argembarger was a Doppelganger warden!

I fail to see how lynching a townie beforehand would help.

And what if one of the vigs is a dopp?

You see, that's the problem. I'm pretty sure one of you is one.

[Book]

So, you did remember to add in the "falseclaim" part of your falseclaim eventually.  I love the way you're pretending it was there all along.

So, I was falseclaiming because I didn't mention who I targeted the night I was blocked? How is that even remotely relevant? I claimed my results, clearly and fully. Your trying to say it was incomplete and therefore scummy is nothing more than a lame attempt at misdirection.

Yes, Jokerman was an enchanter, and that was clear.  I'd say Jokerman's end of day one would've been horribly incompetant as town and an interesting WIFOM move as scum.  He was scummy as hell throughout day 2 and I didn't want 2 votes in scum hands today.

"Interesting WIFOM move as scum"!? Bullshit. Keeping Janus alive and wasting a nightkill (by having to kill one more person later) would be stupid and incompetent. I dare anyone without an ulterior motive to say they would honestly have done that as scum enchanter. And even then, it would be a stupid motivation to kill him, and you haven't addressed the point of there being half a dozen better targets.

You are so scummy it hurts.

Leafsnail

That's everybody, yes? If all have voted, then unless people think there's a good chance of people's minds changing by having another three days of discussion, I call for a Shorten (I believe Meph has said he won't end the day over the weekend, so it's either today or Monday; do people want to wait till Monday?).


Meph: votecount, please, and do clarify if the day ending over the weekend is a possibility; I'll withdraw my shorten request if it is, but Monday seems too far away if people's minds are made up.

[Argembarger]

Yeah, pretty much.

Since Leaf has had a part in discussion, I withdraw second extension request and request a shorten.

[Jim Groovester]

Object to Shorten.

Absolutely not, scumfuckers.

So, you did remember to add in the "falseclaim" part of your falseclaim eventually.  I love the way you're pretending it was there all along.

So, I was falseclaiming because I didn't mention who I targeted the night I was blocked? How is that even remotely relevant? I claimed my results, clearly and fully. Your trying to say it was incomplete and therefore scummy is nothing more than a lame attempt at misdirection.

Everything's relevant, including who you choose to target even if you get blocked. It gives insight into how you're thinking.

Unless you've totally forgotten that you're supposed to be pretending you're town right now, because this would be obvious if you were.

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
Leafsnail: Argembarger, Book, Pandarsenic
Mr.Person: Dariush
Pandarsenic: Jim Groovester, Mr.Person
No Lynch: Leafsnail


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Monday

A Shortening before 5pm today will end the day at 5pm. A shortening over the weekend will end the day ~10am Monday. The day will not end over the weekend.

There is a net vote of 1 for shortening the day.

[Leafsnail]

I object to shorten.  I furthermore put it to everyone that Book and Argembarger are staggeringly obv scum for trying to end the day this prematurely.

And what if one of the vigs is a dopp?

You see, that's the problem. I'm pretty sure one of you is one.

Then we've lost.  The dopps control the vote, and they would not let their vig get lynched for any reason.  Only I'm gonna get lynched, because I'm not a dopp.  Haha.

The best thing townies can do now is vote no lynch to block the doppelgangers (with the exception of Pandarsenic, who can help me kill them).

[Book]

Object to Shorten.

I object to shorten.  I furthermore put it to everyone that Book and Argembarger are staggeringly obv scum for trying to end the day this prematurely.

Have it your way. I predict a lurky weekend, and in general like to see things moving forward instead of wasting time. But I'll play along if people want. Let's see the rest weigh in.

Leafsnail: I notice you have failed to make a case about me being scum.

Everything's relevant, including who you choose to target even if you get blocked. It gives insight into how you're thinking.

Meh. I still think it's irrelevant, but again, up to you how to read stuff; I take it you're satisfied with the claim now? And you still haven't addressed my points about Leafsnail:

You are still missing my point: regardless of his "scummy" excuses, he was a confirmed enchanter, and far from probable dopp. Sure, he may be incompetent and even had incompetent scumbuddies, may not have been "confirmed townie" in your eyes, but KILL HIM!? when there were several scummier players? Hell no. Killing Jokerman was horribly anti-town, even if you weren't sure of his alignment. There were half a dozen better candidates. From Leaf's decision to kill him anyway, I deduce he's scum.

"Interesting WIFOM move as scum"!? Bullshit. Keeping Janus alive and wasting a nightkill (by having to kill one more person later) would be stupid and incompetent. I dare anyone without an ulterior motive to say they would honestly have done that as scum enchanter. And even then, it would be a stupid motivation to kill him, and you haven't addressed the point of there being half a dozen better targets.

There is a net vote of 1 for shortening the day.

Meph: How many are needed for the shorten to pass?


NativeForeigner: you still haven't voted, it seems. I will not shorten until everyone has been heard from. Withdraw Shorten request. But I'm on the impatient side, so I'll reinstate it if people ask for it.

[Leafsnail]

Case:

1. Failure to claim fully.
2. Inspecting someone (who just happened to have claimed just before you) who you didn't think was scum.
3. Trying to lynch a vigilante in an environment where a doppelganger vigilante obviously COULD NOT BE LYNCHED.
4. Suddenly trying to shorten the day along with your partner, at a time when, conveniently, the only thing standing between the doppelgangers and victory is about to be lynched.  Add to this "Asking Mephansteras whether you and your scumbuddies voting for shorten will make it happen".
5. Withdrawing your shorten request even though you apparently still want a shortening.  In other words, removing the vote purely to try and make yourself look less scummy.

It doesn't really matter because there's no way in hell the town will actually stand against you, but I'd like to at least go down fighting against idiocy.

[Mephansteras]

Since shortening the day has a much bigger effect on the game then extending the day it requires a majority of players to vote for a Shortening for it to occur.

In this case, 5/8.

[Jim Groovester]

Everything's relevant, including who you choose to target even if you get blocked. It gives insight into how you're thinking.

Meh. I still think it's irrelevant, but again, up to you how to read stuff; I take it you're satisfied with the claim now? And you still haven't addressed my points about Leafsnail:

Irrelevant? That's such fucking bullshit and you know it. And I'm not satisfied with your claim because you haven't said why you targeted Dariush.

And I haven't responded to your points because you're scum and I obviously won't be able to move you from your position. You're excreting bullshit from every orifice anyway. No point wasting my time.

NativeForeigner: you still haven't voted, it seems. I will not shorten until everyone has been heard from. Withdraw Shorten request. But I'm on the impatient side, so I'll reinstate it if people ask for it.

Yep, gotta remind the scum buddies to get their votes in.

Leafsnail, quit being a fucking dillweed. Pandarsenic's a dopp vig and the only way the town can win is if his lynch goes through today. You still have to vote, even if it won't go through. Being a passive dillweed right now is the stupidest option.

Seriously, what the hell makes you think he's town? If both of you were town you could've been happily shooting up scum before now, but nope, neither of you actually hit anything. Some vigs you are, whichever one of you is town.

[Leafsnail]

The only way Pandarsenic's lynch would go through is if he were town.  Again, the best thing that could result from voting him is a no lynch, if he actually is a dopp vig, in which case it's game over anyway.  If he's a town vig, then... it's also game over because the scum would let us mislynch him.  There's no situation where trying to lynch Pandarsenic would help anything for the town.  For this reason, I will treat him as town in my reasoning.  If he isn't town, then, well, thinking like that didn't make the game any more lost than it already was.

Now, let me make this clear.  This no lynch idea is not passive.  It's the only chance we have of winning.