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[Urist is dead tome]

I think it's obvious if this is for reals then it's a clone. Or at least wants to be a poor man's Dwarf Fortress. Even small things like skill level names are the same. And I don't like this.

Okay, as for the Implaer[WrG] situation. You have to be a class A jackass to go on someone's forum and start telling fans to not donate to him. I mean, Toady lives off donations. If someone else tries to take his creation that he gives away for free, well that would make you a jack ass. Toady works very hard. At least let the man get his donations.

[Tilla]

From the sounds of it he fully intends to change it all later - while Dwarf Fortress is his inspiration and he's just copying DF stuff at this stage (pre-alpha), the engine is his primary focus now.

The end goal seems to be a 3D-DFlike game with some refinements to the complexity (less skills etc). I can get behind that. Of course at this point it may never see a release

I think it is once again important to repost from his blog:

I値l make this the primary point of early development: make it as easy to learn and use as possible. Mouse support is also a must. So at first I値l probably implement stuff exactly as I see it in Dwarf Fortress, but changing the interface a lot.

One important aspect is that this is a personal project. I am coding for myself right now, with no intention to sell anything or release the project under any form. For now. Maybe later I値l try something. Maybe I値l release it as freeware. Maybe I値l charge huge amounts of money and never makes one single dime from it. Maybe I値l release the source code and make it open source. But right now, I値l be only developing once in a while and post on this blog about my progress. I would like to thank the developers of Dwarf Fortress, not only for entertaining me, but for giving me the inspiration to try my teeth on something like this. Also, if the developers of Dwarf Fortress feel that my personal little project (that could evolve in any possible direction) makes it harder for them to promote their own work, I'm open for discussion. But I think there is room in the world for more than one city/cave builder with dwarves inside.

He doesn't want to step on Toady's toes

[Sowelu]

This may just be a case where he should have posted fewer screenshots.

The various Quake games use a very well-established map format, so a lot of projects use it.  It makes sense that if you are just running an engine test, hey, why not screw around with the high-quality maps that someone else already made?  If you already own Quake 2, why not use the official ones?  From a developer standpoint, that's a perfect starting place for your project.  You won't be making derivative works of them for the final version, it doesn't infringe on anything, and it doesn't mean you're trying to copy the game you're using resources from.

...But it's dumb to post screenshots of it.  "Hey guys this is my FPS, it was inspired by Quake 2, and here's a screenshot of it running Quake 2's first level, and using Quake 2's weapon models"

[G-Flex]

The various Quake games use a very well-established map format, so a lot of projects use it.  It makes sense that if you are just running an engine test, hey, why not screw around with the high-quality maps that someone else already made?  If you already own Quake 2, why not use the official ones?  From a developer standpoint, that's a perfect starting place for your project.  You won't be making derivative works of them for the final version, it doesn't infringe on anything, and it doesn't mean you're trying to copy the game you're using resources from.

Yeah. The remaining question is how much of the DF feature set in general he still plans to use, even if the content itself is different. However, judging by the quote, he's just doing this as a personal project, so it really doesn't matter that much.

[nenjin]

I think it is once again important to repost from his blog:

I値l make this the primary point of early development: make it as easy to learn and use as possible. Mouse support is also a must. So at first I値l probably implement stuff exactly as I see it in Dwarf Fortress, but changing the interface a lot.

One important aspect is that this is a personal project. I am coding for myself right now, with no intention to sell anything or release the project under any form. For now. Maybe later I値l try something. Maybe I値l release it as freeware. Maybe I値l charge huge amounts of money and never makes one single dime from it. Maybe I値l release the source code and make it open source. But right now, I値l be only developing once in a while and post on this blog about my progress. I would like to thank the developers of Dwarf Fortress, not only for entertaining me, but for giving me the inspiration to try my teeth on something like this. Also, if the developers of Dwarf Fortress feel that my personal little project (that could evolve in any possible direction) makes it harder for them to promote their own work, I'm open for discussion. But I think there is room in the world for more than one city/cave builder with dwarves inside.

He doesn't want to step on Toady's toes

It's exactly that bolded part that bugs me. A professional, even doing amateur work, would have asked. He's all "Lalala doing this, hope you don't care, lalalalala."

He didn't even bother to find out before happily ripping away. That sounds like a lame ass excuse to head off accusations at the pass. Toady wouldn't go on to someone else's page and go demanding they ask his permission.....but the guy clearly didn't bother to find out either. Were he a DF fan, and not some mook who immediately saw something he could use for himself, he would have asked I'm sure.

And besides. Virtually any developer's answer to "Can I rip your entire game for my own purposes and use it as a jumping off point for my own game" is "fuck no."

I like that he's even got the balls to say "I'm willing to discuss the future of this ripped project if you don't like it." Not "If this upsets you, please let me know and I'll stop." As though what he's doing is completely natural, like the resources came off of wiki or something and don't belong to someone else.

I get no sense of real respect for the work he's using, from this guy.

[Urist is dead tome]

I gotta go with Nejin here. It's just unprofessional and pretty stupid to take someone's idea and "discuss" it if the guy has a problem with it. If I were in Toady's position I would sue this guy.

[lordcooper]

Why are people debating an issue that isn't even a confirmed issue yet?

At the end of the day, we're all followers of the great Toady and don't wanna see him ripped off.  We don't even know if that's the intent here though.  Give it 6 months or so, then check back

[Andir]

People must thrive on drama... I see no big deal here.

[Megaman]

Please continue posting gents, this is quite amusing.

[Azkanan]

Let's voice out the worst case scenario.

3D game is released, it's basically DF in 3D with super awesome graphics, easy gameplay, and lots and lots of fun and hfs.

People leave ASCII DF to play super-awesome-evolving-3D DF.

Less donations. Less income. Toady has to get a job, has less time to work on DF. 3D DF overtakes 2D DF, less people play 2D DF except for us fan..men. And ladies.


In any case, my opinion is that this guy is a cheap whore with no creativity. Why make a direct DF Clone (Notice the Pig Tail Seeds, I mean, really.) when you can create a whole new game, with similar mechanics?

Rather than having dwarves, pig tails and giant eagles (presumably), have Ki'zkor, Glowing Mushroom Plants and Rocs.

It's not so much the outright pat-of-the-ball-sack, followed decisively by a T-bagging of his cat, that this guy is planting on Toady and Threetoe, but the complete lack of creativity and originalness.

[Andir]

3D game is released, it's basically DF in 3D with super awesome graphics, easy gameplay, and lots and lots of fun and hfs.

You failed to tell me how that's bad for me?

[Glowcat]

3D game is released, it's basically DF in 3D with super awesome graphics, easy gameplay, and lots and lots of fun and hfs.

You failed to tell me how that's bad for me?

If the creator is getting all his/her (good) ideas from DF, when DF stops he/she will be at a large disadvantage and further development will hit a brick wall.

[Azkanan]

...Actually, I was thinking it bad because we wouldn't had 2D DF any more. Or, at least, much slower rates of development.

[squeakyReaper]

...Actually, I was thinking it bad because we wouldn't had 2D DF any more. Or, at least, much slower rates of development.

Because people decided they like 3D more?  The only way 2D would stop developing is if the public, mostly us, decide that we like 3D so much we'll support that.  The fact that we'd be supporting it means that we enjoy it more.  Sure there will be stragglers to those who still play the one that "loses", but a more significant portion wouldn't care.

[Bohandas]

3D game is released, it's basically DF in 3D with super awesome graphics, easy gameplay, and lots and lots of fun and hfs.

You failed to tell me how that's bad for me?

Good graphics make games a pain in the ass to modify/customize...