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[Rex_Nex]

Looks like we've got a set of new premium tanks, berlin-themed. Berlin version of the IS-2, Cromwell, ISU-122, and the T-34-85 "Rudy". All good tanks, but it's kinda disappointing that they are just about completely superior to the tech tree tanks. Feels kinda pay-to-win when I could get the Chinese IS-2... or, for 35 dollars, get the Berlin IS-2 with better gun dep and frontal armor. Same deal with the others, they all turn out to be considerably better in some way.

[Flying Dice]

100% guarantee that they'll be nerfed within a couple months of release once they've sold plenty to the suckers have thought that WG would ever let people get away with permanent P2W after what happened with the Type 59.

[Erkki]

I'm not 100% sure yet that they are superior. At least they did not get the premium matchmaking that was rumored for a while.

The stats-page stuff sure looks better but then the actual ground resistances, rate of turns may equalize things a bit. As they dont get preferential matchmaking I'm OK with them being as good as tech tree counter parts. The Cromwell B at least reportedly handles like a whale.



In the meanwhile, I've unlocked my 4th tier X and the Leopard 1 joins E 50 M, Obj. 140 and T-62A! Next one I'll be aiming to will be either 121 or M48. I have both of the tier 8s of those lines already, but I really, really hate the T-34-2 and the WZ-120 is going to need a mountain of free XP...

[Donuts]

They are just slightly different clones, really.

[Sonlirain]

Looks like we've got a set of new premium tanks, berlin-themed. Berlin version of the IS-2, Cromwell, ISU-122, and the T-34-85 "Rudy". All good tanks, but it's kinda disappointing that they are just about completely superior to the tech tree tanks. Feels kinda pay-to-win when I could get the Chinese IS-2... or, for 35 dollars, get the Berlin IS-2 with better gun dep and frontal armor. Same deal with the others, they all turn out to be considerably better in some way.

Hmm rudy has worse engine power but better traction and turn rate but i never saw any opinions saying its downright better than the T-34-85 (To be honest it would be the god of tier 6 if that was the case).

Anyway beyond the rudy and its gimmick all of those tanks are simply repaints. That's probably one of those things i hate about gaijin and WT (Repaints! Repaints EVERYWHERE!) and now this shit is comming to WoT.

[Donuts]

Well, almost done with the grind of the VK3001H. That Konisch, though! <3

[Sonlirain]

I suggest you try the protopanther and panther.
I had a lot of fun in both.
Additionally you can almost do F-All and get good WN8 in them for some reason.

I had one game where i suicide jumped off a cliff and crashed into a KV-3 wrecking us both.
End results? Over 2600 WN8.

Medium tanks are just silly for WN8 padding.

[Erkki]

I suggest you try the protopanther and panther.
I had a lot of fun in both.
Additionally you can almost do F-All and get good WN8 in them for some reason.

I had one game where i suicide jumped off a cliff and crashed into a KV-3 wrecking us both.
End results? Over 2600 WN8.

Medium tanks are just silly for WN8 padding.

I think you did something else in that battle too. VK 30.01 M and D have almost same expected damage value as VK 36.01 H - about 750 damage and 1 kill for 1650 WN8 points.

edit: for WN8 padding if you dont care about win ratio, try the AMX ELC. 3 pens --> 3k WN8 and it has no issues penning almost any tank it meets.

[Sonlirain]

Well i fell on him doing 1400 damage and earning 1 kill.

Still those values are very low compared to heavy tanks that are usually expected to do their own HP in damage at the very least while mediums have far more freedom to screw up and still get blue or even purple stats.

[Erkki]

Well i fell on him doing 1400 damage and earning 1 kill.

Still those values are very low compared to heavy tanks that are usually expected to do their own HP in damage at the very least while mediums have far more freedom to screw up and still get blue or even purple stats.

Not really, it depends on individual tank but the figures aren't higher as a rule. Only few OP tanks need their own hitpoints or above in expected values and most of those even arent heavies. For example KV-85 only needs 790 compared to baby Panther's 733 - mere 60 points more damage to get 1650 wn8 despite KV-85 having once been the incredibly OP tier 6 KV-1S.

At tier 10 most mediums have higher expected damage values than heavies... For example IS-7 vs. Object 140: 1788 and 1838. You cant exactly drive around, screw up constantly and still score purple WN8 in almost any medium - or any other tank actually.

Edit: you can see how the WN8 works and the expected values there: http://www.wnefficiency.net/wnexpected/ And also how tanks perform statistically at vbaddict.com (although AFAIK their database does not represent entire playerbase but just the "top" that has their dossier uploader stats tool).

[Sonlirain]

I know the mechanics. It's a case of what kind of people plays what.

It's relatively easier to play heavy tanks so the average scores are generally better since heavies tend to be more forgiving.

Basically the worse players tend to play medium tanks and quit in the longer run (especially on the tier 7 bottleneck where virtually every medium tank is pure trash with very few exeptions) so tier 9-10 mediums are usually driven only be the most stubborn and good players inflating their average score of those vehicles.

[Erkki]

But if those scores are inflated(which they may be for some some tanks, especially rare ones like 121 or say M60 and other reward tanks), that higher performance due to higher average player skill result in higher WN8 formula expected score, and make it more difficult to score good WN8 in them. Which is why its so easy to score extremely high WN8 score in the ELC: low tier, most players are poor and just suicide scout and die without ever using the very good gun.

[Sonlirain]

Exacly. And its also extremely popular among players who have no clue what to do AND gets a very powerful gun to boot.
A cross between the russian 122 mm and german 105.
And most people don't use it and opt to play it like a gocart with a blunderbuss.

[Rex_Nex]

Looks like we've got a set of new premium tanks, berlin-themed. Berlin version of the IS-2, Cromwell, ISU-122, and the T-34-85 "Rudy". All good tanks, but it's kinda disappointing that they are just about completely superior to the tech tree tanks. Feels kinda pay-to-win when I could get the Chinese IS-2... or, for 35 dollars, get the Berlin IS-2 with better gun dep and frontal armor. Same deal with the others, they all turn out to be considerably better in some way.

Hmm rudy has worse engine power but better traction and turn rate but i never saw any opinions saying its downright better than the T-34-85 (To be honest it would be the god of tier 6 if that was the case).

Anyway beyond the rudy and its gimmick all of those tanks are simply repaints. That's probably one of those things i hate about gaijin and WT (Repaints! Repaints EVERYWHERE!) and now this shit is comming to WoT.

Mobility turns out to be equal. It's literally just a T-34-85 but with slightly better gun handling. It also has a dog for a radioman :p

They are repaints, but they are slightly better repaints. IS-2B is an IS-2 with 3kmh less top speed but better gun dep, accel, and frontal armor. ISU-122 is a SU-152-122 with higher view range, more hp, slightly better mobility, slightly better armor, slightly better gun handling, and tougher modules. Cromwell B is a Cromwell with slightly worse gun handling but half the terrain resistance values, meaning it never loses speed. I'm willing to cede that the IS-2 might be a case of preference, but all the rest are clearly a case of the Berlin version being better.

That's what bugs me. People are saying its okay to have paid tanks that are just slightly better versions of the tech tree tanks. That's pretty shitty balance imho, premium tanks should be the same or worse than normal tanks.

[Flying Dice]

Exacly. And its also extremely popular among players who have no clue what to do AND gets a very powerful gun to boot.
A cross between the russian 122 mm and german 105.
And most people don't use it and opt to play it like a gocart with a blunderbuss.

That's how you play it well: you give no shits and never stop moving. The only alternative is to play it like an extremely quick-relocating sniping TD with camo net and binocs, but the gun isn't quite accurate enough for that. Playing it like a traditional light tank is somewhere between suicidal and a waste of potential.

Also, x5 weekend, so expect neck-deep drifts of stupid.