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[JanusTwoface]

Are you really saying we should mislynch less than ideal townies over scum because it won't absolutely kill us?  That's complete bullshit.  We shouldn't settle for townies when we can find scum.

Not really. If there's not a clear scumpick, getting rid of someone that will cause problems during the endgame is a perfectly valid strategy. Now Org was being somewhat useful and there are plenty of scummier candidates to choose from: you, SHAD0Wdump, and Criptfeind.

Then there's Panarsenic, Mr.Person, and webadict, all with plenty of experience telling them that lurking is scummy and yet doing it anyways.  Especially Pandarsenic, who's online but has yet to post...

You can't really be that stupid.

I rarely play mafia, yes I can.

Do you want to by lynched?

[KaminaSquirtle]

Get scumhunting

Already found one.

Anyway, busy streaming.

Awfully confident for a bullshit argument.

You can't really be that stupid.

I rarely play mafia, yes I can.

Everyone was all over me for shit like this.  If you're serious, I really don't have anything to say.  You're doing about everything you can to get lynched.  If I looked like this, I was hella bad.

[Criptfeind]

More useful then you so far. He has called someone on somthing scummy, all you have done is beat your chest about a policy lynch.

If all you've seen me do is that, you haven't been reading well.

Okay, lets look at all your posts up to that point and see.

[urlhttp://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=69553.msg1683605#msg1683605]In post.[/url]
1st game post, you say that aliens are most likely in and that someone else is useless, you also attack org here. Theory still strong.
Second game post, defending your lets lynch org. Theory still strong.
3th game post, more org. Some technical things. Very very light hit at solly, the first real thing in this game that does not have to do with org. Theory is Okay, maybe if you follow up on solly it will crumble.
4th game post, defense against a stupid attack. Not a death blow to theory but obvious I was exaggerating when I said you did nothing else.
5th game post. More org.
6th game post. You say RVT is useless and we should skip, no thoughts on how to skip. Ties in with org lynch.
7th game post, same as above but with stronger ties to org lynch, a little playing with Solly.
8th game post. Same as above. No playing with Solly.
9th. Same as above.
10th and last. more Org. You say you have a back up plan. And that it is okay to be scummy because it gets people to talk. Also know as the Solly complete-lack-of-defense.

I am sorry you are right. I was wrong. I should have said "all you have done that is significant is beat your chest about a policy lynch."

If you suck at sarcasm I am saying you are wrong here.

Holly fuck seven new replies. I will post this then get on to the next bit.

[Criptfeind]

I'm not sure why... Your entire post is essentially worthless except the comment on webadict, but here goes.  Anything I didn't respond to, I didn't think was worth responding to.

I dissagree, I find scum org not that hard to lynch. I think you have very odd fear of him. Not really, I think you are scum trying to poloicy lynch some poor dumb sap.

Blah blah blah, I don't care about your answer to this one so we will skip it. It is personal preference really.

Lets get down.

I'm not sure why... Your entire post is essentially worthless except the comment on webadict, but here goes.  Anything I didn't respond to, I didn't think was worth responding to.

Really, what you 'ignored' seems to refute some points you made right in this post I am quoting, is that why you ignored them? They point out how scummy you are? We will get to that later I think.

I got a feeling that Janus is going to try to sneak away well you guys go after that turtle, but I don't think I will let him.JTF

Umm... what?  What exactly do you mean sneak away? I'm not going anywhere.

You were the center of attention, Turtle stepped in and became the center of attention. You disappeared for two pages. I just don't want people to forget you in their attacks on him. Obviously since you are posting you are not trying to make a get away, but I still want people to look at you.

Derrrr. I forgot to merge these two posts.

[KaminaSquirtle]

Are you really saying we should mislynch less than ideal townies over scum because it won't absolutely kill us?  That's complete bullshit.  We shouldn't settle for townies when we can find scum.

Not really. If there's not a clear scumpick, getting rid of someone that will cause problems during the endgame is a perfectly valid strategy. Now Org was being somewhat useful and there are plenty of scummier candidates to choose from: you, SHAD0Wdump, and Criptfeind.

Then there's Panarsenic, Mr.Person, and webadict, all with plenty of experience telling them that lurking is scummy and yet doing it anyways.  Especially Pandarsenic, who's online but has yet to post...

That's better.  You seemed to have been arguing for lynching dysfunctional townies without trying to find actual scum.  However, I still think you should only go for dysfunctional townies if there's almost no leads on the scum.  Which is not the case.  So we should be hunting them, not worrying about lynching townies.

I can agree on the lurkers.  Where the hell are you?

[Criptfeind]

How? Randomly lynching people has no way to work ever, I am sure even you know that, what do you think we should do?

Thanks for taking that out of context. I already answered this literally sentences after the quote you pulled out.

Here is a point where you ignored what seemed to be a prophetic attack by me.

You say

We should skip immediately to lynching scum.  Since that's not likely, I wouldn't be opposed to an Org policy lynch (as you may have noticed).  Failing that, anything that will get people talking is useful.  RVS can do that, if done well.  But so few people do it well that it's rarely useful.

So. Lynch scum. But don't hunt for scum just lynch Org. If you can find Scum lynch Org. Or if not Org then lynch someone so we can talk about it, like say... Org.

You really hate Org. Lynch Org or lynch randomly. Don't do RVT, I wont tell you what else to do but if you can not think of anything then do RVT.

You are a pile of scummy contradictions.

DON'T WORRY WE DON'T HAVE TO BE GOOD! SOMETHING ELSE WILL SAVE US!

Nope.  What I meant is that almost everyone has a power role. Thus I personally have a backup plan.

Well and good for you. If you are scum though that does not help us at all. And even if you were not scum then the scum will still have power roles. Lets not not care because I am sure that no mater what you can do, if we just don't care about the game the scum will win anyway.

But it sure as hell shuts down conversation. Hell, if we had agreed with you the game would pretty much start on day two.

The whole point is that people don't agree with me. And the it doesn't shut down conversation. I'm doing it and people are talking about it. How hard is that to understand?

Yeah. So, scummy actions are just to get people to talk? No bad JTF bad boy! That never works. And if you will notice, people are talking, but there is a distinct lack of policy lynching going on.

For the record, your only non scummy post was the in post. Nice one JTF.

Bullshit.

Noooope Still think so. You have failed to impress.

SS=Town

Wrong. SS == 3rd party. Deal with the scum first.

Meh. A town vote is a town vote. And I have no plans to 'deal' with him other then pointing out to the scum how much of a good idea it is for them to kill him. Why does everyone (That I think is anti town) saying that I want to lynch him?

Also trolling is not the same as mafia playing.

Yeah it is, Web does it all the time.

1st: You are not as good as Web.
2ed: Web is not as good as Web.
3th: Answer the other damn question you lying ass. You god damn something or another that was me you were talking about!

A: He's attempting to get me lynched by assuming spore spreader. Lynching a spore spreader is probably the worst thing you can do to one.

B: He switched his reasoning to me not being a spore spreader. While I'll stress this is true, it brings less reason to the table for my lynch as I'm not trying to claim spore spreader.

I never said anything of the kind. These are bold face lies!

[Zathras]

FUCK! A trillion new replies since I last posted! That is utterly amazing, you guys... Meph: I told you, what this board needed was a new Paranormal. *cheer*

First, Unvote - thank you for your minimally helpful answer Mr Person (there's more to the new rules than daykills, but that was half a dozen pages ago, so let's move on).

Second, I'll catch up with all the posts eventually (and therefore some of these impressions may change), but a handful of thoughts in the mean time:

- Org is not being usual Org. He has posted paragraphs. It may either mean Org is being helpful now (good) or Scum Org looking for a new screen. For now, I'm partial to his thinking "Org help town, herp, being good, derp, don't lynch", instead of his usual Scum Org game "Org scum is not here, herp, say nuthin', derp"....
- Janus, the other side of that coin, is eager, maybe a bit too much; I understand the sentiment of his point, but Org is not (yet) being useless, so back off the policy lynch or be branded as scummy "lynch someone NOW!" Answer this: given the latest developments, do you still want Org lyched? If so, why?
- Solifuge "I vote none, so how 'bout that!" post is, at least, novel, but not useful. Do something, or hang, dude.
- Ottofar, to answer your question ("what's most useful tech?") I have no idea; earlier games, I'd say assasin bot every time, regardless of alignment or other variables. In this new setup, maybe one of the new shields or bombs.
- Webadict is being cryptic. Which may be fine, he may be feelin' creative, but it's not what I'd have expected of his usual town game. Suspicious.
- M.BleuPuppet. être utile, oui? You've not really helped the chase yet. You've been noobish, useless and lacking a guiding goal. My read so far is noobtown, but that will likely change with time... Who are your top three scumpick for now?
- Shadowdump: "Too lazy, I feel scummy. I need a bath", and a hundred more...  Do you want to play? Is this a gambit? are you at all interested? having seen a bit of your earlier play, I'm inclined to take you at your scummy word and say you're refuging in audacity, scum. You're being Orger than Org, and proving all of Janus's points. If you're town, you're hurting town. If you're scum, you're hurting town. Therefore: hang. You're my favourite to hang now, until I hear from Pandar.
- Kamina, you're being useful and active, but clueless. Clueless Scum or Clueless Town, I've  not yet decided. But bringing yourself to the foreground earns you a FoS: Kamina. This doesn't necessarily mean you're scum, some of us are more drawn to the spotlight than others, but you should know by now that being one of those will at least make you seem suspect. So, FoS on you. Tell us why you're being helpful, and why wouldn't we be better off without you.
- Pandarsenic hasn't answered my original question ("how much will you lurk", ironically) hours ago. I want to hear your reasoned opinions on the frickin' 10 pages of posts, and I'll unvote you, unless you look the scummier for them.


Blue and bolded ones, please answer the questions. Everybody else, I don't know. Too many people to form opinions of at once. We'll see as time proceeds.

if there are questions pending for me, please repost them, as traffic may have obscure them.

[JanusTwoface]

PPE: Response to Zathras after this.

Spoiler: 'Chest beating' math, not really necessary reading (click to show/hide)

1st game post, you say that aliens are most likely in and that someone else is useless, you also attack org here. Theory still strong.

Attack on Leafsnail, comment on Jim Groovester, Org policy lynch.
Still 1/3 ain't bad...

Second game post, defending your lets lynch org. Theory still strong.

Right on this one.
1 1/3 so far.

3th game post, more org. Some technical things. Very very light hit at solly, the first real thing in this game that does not have to do with org. Theory is Okay, maybe if you follow up on solly it will crumble.

Comments on Jim Groovester, KaminaSquirtle, and Solifuge.  Two on Org.
So 2/5 here so 1 11/15 total.

4th game post, defense against a stupid attack. Not a death blow to theory but obvious I was exaggerating when I said you did nothing else.

Not directly Org related.
0/1.
1 11/15.

5th game post. More org.

Repsonses to Org, sure. But completely game related. I'll give you half.
Total is 2 7/30.

6th game post. You say RVT is useless and we should skip, no thoughts on how to skip. Ties in with org lynch.

No it doesn't. We should go directly into scum hunting without all the pointless questions.
0/1.

7th game post, same as above but with stronger ties to org lynch, a little playing with Solly.

This time I rbing up the Org lynch. But the entire point is that anything getting people talking (including bringing up policy lynches) is useful.  Then the Solifuge business.
2/3 (and I think I'm being generous).
2 9/10

8th game post. Same as above. No playing with Solly.

Yup. Same as above. The point is that RVS is useless and that getting people talking is helpful.
1/2 for 3 2/5.

9th. Same as above.

Def not. It's about rushing, not at all about policy lynches. Unless you really believe that talking about a policy lynch actually rushes the game.
0

10th and last. more Org. You say you have a back up plan. And that it is okay to be scummy because it gets people to talk. Also know as the Solly complete-lack-of-defense.

Do you agree now that it is getting people to talk?  Huh.  In any case, 1/2 Policy Lynch related at best.
Total is 3 9/10.

I am sorry you are right. I was wrong. I should have said "all you have done that is significant is beat your chest about a policy lynch."

So basically 40% of my content up to that point was Org policy lynch (and I still think I'm being generous).  Your point just doesn't stand up.

I dissagree, I find scum org not that hard to lynch. I think you have very odd fear of him. Not really, I think you are scum trying to poloicy lynch some poor dumb sap.

In my experience he's hard to lynch. If you've had a difference experience, that's great, but it really doesn't effect what I think.  Thus why I didn't think it was worth responding to.

Really, what you 'ignored' seems to refute some points you made right in this post I am quoting, is that why you ignored them? They point out how scummy you are? We will get to that later I think.

Just like how your post countered itself and how the quotes you took out of context were countered / meant the opposite of what you made out when they were in context?  Bring it.

Well and good for you. If you are scum though that does not help us at all. And even if you were not scum then the scum will still have power roles. Lets not not care because I am sure that no mater what you can do, if we just don't care about the game the scum will win anyway.

I have no idea what you're saying here...

Yeah. So, scummy actions are just to get people to talk? No bad JTF bad boy! That never works. And if you will notice, people are talking, but there is a distinct lack of policy lynching going on.

I don't think it's scummy. And my actions are getting people to talk. I didn't expect a policy lynch on Org to go though. And at this point, I'd actually rather it didn't. He's doing a little better. We'll see tomorrow / Thursday if that holds.

Meh. A town vote is a town vote. And I have no plans to 'deal' with him other then pointing out to the scum how much of a good idea it is for them to kill him. Why does everyone (That I think is anti town) saying that I want to lynch him?

A town vote is a town vote.  A 3rd party vote is a 3rd party vote. It's entirely possible that the Spore Spreaders could work something out with other Aliens and be completely anti-town (for example).

[JanusTwoface]

FUCK! A trillion new replies since I last posted! That is utterly amazing, you guys... Meph: I told you, what this board needed was a new Paranormal. *cheer*

There are still lurkers.  Too many lurkers, just hidden by the noise.

- Janus, the other side of that coin, is eager, maybe a bit too much; I understand the sentiment of his point, but Org is not (yet) being useless, so back off the policy lynch or be branded as scummy "lynch someone NOW!" Answer this: given the latest developments, do you still want Org lyched? If so, why?

I'm guessing you haven't read through everything. Throughout the policy lynch bits, he wasn't being useful. Then he had a couple of useful posts, so I've since unvoted him. We'll see how he does tomorrow / Thursday but I'm semi-hopeful.

Right now there are scummier and lurkier people anyways.

[Zathras]

I'm guessing you haven't read through everything. Throughout the policy lynch bits, he wasn't being useful. Then he had a couple of useful posts, so I've since unvoted him. We'll see how he does tomorrow / Thursday but I'm semi-hopeful. Right now there are scummier and lurkier people anyways.

Fair points, and UnFoS Janus, is there's such a thing. I'm stil catching up. But a question for you: what is your opinion of Shadowdump so far? He really has been Orger than Org, and scummy to top it off... should he fall to the ax you had branded for Org earlier?

[Criptfeind]

Arent you going to find a minor infraction with me, tunnel me to the end of time and cause me to tunnel you, wasting two days and giving the game to the scum?

It's tradition.

Also you have no thoughts on me. Makes me sad, I thought we were hate buddies when we played mafia?


Okay, lets play that math game.

Attack on Leafsnail, comment on Jim Groovester, Org policy lynch.
Still 1/3 ain't bad...

Everything but Org was insignificant. 1

Second game post, defending your lets lynch org. Theory still strong.

Right on this one.
1 1/3 so far.

2

3th game post, more org. Some technical things. Very very light hit at solly, the first real thing in this game that does not have to do with org. Theory is Okay, maybe if you follow up on solly it will crumble.

Comments on Jim Groovester, KaminaSquirtle, and Solifuge.  Two on Org.
So 2/5 here so 1 11/15 total.

Two of thous are insignificant or not really part of the game. 2 2/3

4th game post, defense against a stupid attack. Not a death blow to theory but obvious I was exaggerating when I said you did nothing else.

Not directly Org related.
0/1.
1 11/15.

Once again not significant, but what ever, it is more then the others so you can have it. 2 2/3

5th game post. More org.

Repsonses to Org, sure. But completely game related. I'll give you half.
Total is 2 7/30.

No, this is 100% about Org and reasons why/defenses for a policy lynch. 3 2/3

6th game post. You say RVT is useless and we should skip, no thoughts on how to skip. Ties in with org lynch.

No it doesn't. We should go directly into scum hunting without all the pointless questions.
0/1.

No. That is the point, you give no real way how to avoid RVT but you say, "hey, a policy lynch will do it!" 4 2/3

7th game post, same as above but with stronger ties to org lynch, a little playing with Solly.

This time I rbing up the Org lynch. But the entire point is that anything getting people talking (including bringing up policy lynches) is useful.  Then the Solifuge business.
2/3 (and I think I'm being generous).
2 9/10

That "Solifuge business" is a joke, not part of the game at all. 5 2/3

8th game post. Same as above. No playing with Solly.

Yup. Same as above. The point is that RVS is useless and that getting people talking is helpful.
1/2 for 3 2/5.

Yes but the way you want to get people talking is by a policy lynch. 2/3 at least, and that is very generous. 6 1/3

9th. Same as above.

Def not. It's about rushing, not at all about policy lynches. Unless you really believe that talking about a policy lynch actually rushes the game.
0

I believe that doing policy lynching rushes the game 7 1/3

Do you really think that doing policy lynching does not rush the game?

10th and last. more Org. You say you have a back up plan. And that it is okay to be scummy because it gets people to talk. Also know as the Solly complete-lack-of-defense.

Do you agree now that it is getting people to talk?  Huh.  In any case, 1/2 Policy Lynch related at best.
Total is 3 9/10.

Yes it is getting people to talk, but about how scummy you are, not how you said we would talk after Org (Or anyone, you don't care) is lynched. And the back up came directly form it is a bad idea to policy lynch because more likely then not it will hit a Towny.

8 1/3

By my count that makes it only 16% not about Org. And ten of thous are tentative at best.

I dissagree, I find scum org not that hard to lynch. I think you have very odd fear of him. Not really, I think you are scum trying to poloicy lynch some poor dumb sap.

In my experience he's hard to lynch. If you've had a difference experience, that's great, but it really doesn't effect what I think.  Thus why I didn't think it was worth responding to.

Yeah. At least we agree here. I said basically the same thing a few posts back.

Really, what you 'ignored' seems to refute some points you made right in this post I am quoting, is that why you ignored them? They point out how scummy you are? We will get to that later I think.

Just like how your post countered itself and how the quotes you took out of context were countered / meant the opposite of what you made out when they were in context?  Bring it.

Where? I pointed out where I saw you selectively ignore points, now you go and point out where I countered my self and blah blah blah.

Yeah. So, scummy actions are just to get people to talk? No bad JTF bad boy! That never works. And if you will notice, people are talking, but there is a distinct lack of policy lynching going on.

I don't think it's scummy. And my actions are getting people to talk. I didn't expect a policy lynch on Org to go though. And at this point, I'd actually rather it didn't. He's doing a little better. We'll see tomorrow / Thursday if that holds.

So, it was all a ruse to get people to talk. I think I said something about how that is the worst plan ever.

Meh. A town vote is a town vote. And I have no plans to 'deal' with him other then pointing out to the scum how much of a good idea it is for them to kill him. Why does everyone (That I think is anti town) saying that I want to lynch him?

A town vote is a town vote.  A 3rd party vote is a 3rd party vote. It's entirely possible that the Spore Spreaders could work something out with other Aliens and be completely anti-town (for example).

No. No it is not. SS can only win if the town wins or if everyone else loses.

Well and good for you. If you are scum though that does not help us at all. And even if you were not scum then the scum will still have power roles. Lets not not care because I am sure that no mater what you can do, if we just don't care about the game the scum will win anyway.

I have no idea what you're saying here...

I would not trust you to save us all even if I thought you were town.

Also you 'missed' the "pile of scummy contradictions" part.


Basically, you are not digging yourself deeper into the scum hole by much. But that is most likely cause you hit rock bottom. No one else is anywhere near as scummy as you to me. (Other than maybe shadowdump, but he is sorta special.)

[KaminaSquirtle]

*crosses Zathras off list of lurkers*

- Kamina, you're being useful and active, but clueless. Clueless Scum or Clueless Town, I've  not yet decided. But bringing yourself to the foreground earns you a FoS: Kamina. This doesn't necessarily mean you're scum, some of us are more drawn to the spotlight than others, but you should know by now that being one of those will at least make you seem suspect. So, FoS on you. Tell us why you're being helpful, and why wouldn't we be better off without you.

I'm being helpful because that's the only way I know to play town well.  You pressure likely suspects, hoping they will drop a scumtell.  How else am I supposed to scumhunt but to point out possible scum and try to force them to respond to my questions?  I see no way to play town well without being 'helpful'.
As to why you wouldn't be better off without me, I tend to be quick to adapt.  So far I haven't done very well at all, but (hopefully, as time permits) tomorrow I'll have a chance to look over the thread, get a feel for how a real mafia game goes, and begin to form some ideas of my own.  For sure on Thursday.  My insight will be helpful in finding scum.  And just having another active player helps keep things rolling, though with 16 players I doubt we'll have much trouble with that.  By the end of Day 1, I hope to have mostly shook off any cluelessness.
And now time to out a lurker.  If there's on thing I've learned, it's lynch all lurkers.
Unvote.
Vote Leafsnail.  Where are you?  What are your thoughts on the situation?  Who are your top scumpicks?  Any number, just the ones you think most important.
And now I need some sleep.  It's past midnight and I have to wake up at 6 this morning, so bleh.

[JanusTwoface]

Zathras:
See here.  I'm guessing he's Spore Spreader or dopp, but I'm willing to gamble on there being a Xenozooligist snatching him tonight.  If not, we can see what tomorrow brings.


Criptfeind:
You're math is about as much bull as mine was.  Basically, you say that anything that isn't related to an Org policy lynch was insignificant.

Basically, you are not digging yourself deeper into the scum hole by much. But that is most likely cause you hit rock bottom. No one else is anywhere near as scummy as you to me. (Other than maybe shadowdump, but he is sorta special.)

If that's really what you believe, I doubt I can convince you. It's really not worth the effort right now. I'll hope that's just hyperbole though.

[Criptfeind]

Zathras:
See here.  I'm guessing he's Spore Spreader or dopp, but I'm willing to gamble on there being a Xenozooligist snatching him tonight.  If not, we can see what tomorrow brings.


Criptfeind:
You're math is about as much bull as mine was.  Basically, you say that anything that isn't related to an Org policy lynch was insignificant.

It is more that I can see connections in everything you did with trying for a policy lynch. The 'math' does not matter, it is just that I find you scummy.

If that's really what you believe, I doubt I can convince you. It's really not worth the effort right now. I'll hope that's just hyperbole though.

That is what I believe. I also doubt you can convince me directly. I think that you are clearly scum. There is not much more to say then that.

I need to sleep now.

Can't wait to see what the 'lurkers' think of the explosion of this thread.

And by 'lurkers' I mean lurker.

Where the fuck is panda?

[Zathras]

Arent you going to find a minor infraction with me, tunnel me to the end of time and cause me to tunnel you, wasting two days and giving the game to the scum? It's tradition.
Also you have no thoughts on me. Makes me sad, I thought we were hate buddies when we played mafia?

Cript, you have me mistaken for Pandar. He's the one that has a history of tunneling on you (see VM1). Me? I'm guilty of the same with you and with Jim, but never without reason, and neither of you have given me reason just yet, Jim, what are your interpretations of Cript's play so far? How about Janus, shadowdump, lurky webadict or I? what are your top scumpicks so far?

*crosses Zathras off list of lurkers*

- Kamina, you're being useful and active, but clueless. Clueless Scum or Clueless Town, I've  not yet decided.

And now time to out a lurker.  If there's on thing I've learned, it's lynch all lurkers.Vote Leafsnail. 

This is the right, clueful thing to do. Given that there are too many players for my little mind to sort them out, I'm working on a script that will calculate how many hours it's been since each player's last post. Lynch all lurkers is a good strategy, especially in this large sort of game, so whoever has been lurking the longest will have my default vote, unless there's a scummier target present.

Many players give lurkers a screen. In smaller games, a lurky town lets them get away with it, but here, there's a large enough town that the lurkers will stand out. So: TOWN: don't lurk, and LURKERS: hang.