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[Max White]

OBJECTION!
that is irrelevant to this elitism case.

OVER RULED!

[Aklyon]

OBJECTION!
that is irrelevant to this elitism case.

OVER RULED!

On what grounds? Dolls are not elitist.

[Max White]

On what grounds? Dolls are not elitist.

I'm just so elitist that I don't need grounds. 

[Aklyon]

On what grounds? Dolls are not elitist.

I'm just so elitist that I don't need grounds. 

can you prove that?

[Max White]

can you prove that?

Well, I am playing as both lawyer, judge, several members of the jury and the press photographer, thats fairly elitist.

[breadbocks]

That has nothing to do with elitism.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

e·lit·ist Adjective /əˈlētist/ /āˈlētist/
Favoring, advocating, or restricted to an elite
the old, elitist image of the string quartet

e·lit·ist Noun /əˈlētist/ /āˈlētist/

elitists plural
A person who believes that a system or society should be ruled or dominated by an elite
A person who believes that they belong to an elite
designers are a bunch of elitists who don't live in the real world

Anyways, as I am the best, I declare myself more elitist than the lot of you.

[Max White]

That has nothing to do with elitism.

Sure it does, I'm the most elite, therefor I rule over all important positions in this forum.

[100killer9]

The only flaw to this theory is that it would imply that the Touhou comminity is the more mature then the we rouge-like fans. 

Exeption to prove the rule, or something of that nature.

That's because the Touhou fanbase is self-propogating or something like that. The fanbase isn't entirely about the games, otherwise the characters wouldn't have nearly as much personality as seen in fanworks.

Anyway, I'ma step in here and say that another reason is that when you purchase/subscribe to a game that is updated as frequently as current MMOs/fpses, you get a sense of entitlement to say in updates. Needless to say, developers think otherwise. Therefore, complaints aren't as bad for Nintendo games (which are easy, though it could be because they're usually good). This is worst in MMOs, where people pay subscriptions, and feel that them quitting would put the company at a disadvantage. They may also be trying to justify their spending of time and money on a game when it changes for the worse, or isn't changed enough to justify such things.
Dwarf fortress has none of this not out of difficulty, but because of how it is. It is randomly generated (like spelunky, which explains that game), giving it infinite replay value. It is free, so no one tries to justify the purchase of it or anything. It allows imagination, adding to replay value.
Minecraft had it bad because people paid for a game that was in development with the promise of a full game later. It was taking too long, so someone tried to justify their purpose by forcing an ultimatum on the developers, fearing they wouldn't get what they "deserved."
Essentially, what I'm trying to say is:
1. Games in development (including MMOs) will always have this if they're charged for.
2. Games released fully will not have this if there is little chance it will be developed further.
3. Games in development but free may have this, if players have spent enough time with it to fullyexhaust the game, and development isn't going quickly. But this rule is only in extreme cases.
Erm... TL;DR entitlement occurs because players of games that are continuously worked on feel developers are obligated to work quickly and well, and it's a problem now because such types of games simply did not exist back then.
It's not just this elitism that you guys said.
(urgh, this all made SO much more sense in my head)

[breadbocks]

and feel that them quitting would put the company at a disadvantage.

Happens in FPS's too. You know when Bungie banhammered 15000 hackers? The ones who got banned kept going like "wai 2 go bnge u jst lst 15K fnz!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!1!!1!!1!" And you know what the people who were smart said? "Bungie already has your money. Turning your game into GameStop won't hurt them."

And you know what? They're right.

[freeformschooler]

and feel that them quitting would put the company at a disadvantage.

Happens in FPS's too. You know when Bungie banhammered 15000 hackers? The ones who got banned kept going like "wai 2 go bnge u jst lst 15K fnz!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!1!!1!!1!" And you know what the people who were smart said? "Bungie already has your money. Turning your game into GameStop won't hurt them."

And you know what? They're right.

Considering that you're talking about a game you "buy" from a store, that's ridiculous. Not only have they already got the money, they also have not lost any incentive to continue with the same business model.

(continuing the previous unrelated convo) It's sickening to see indie developers crippled by a massive amount of people telling them how to spend their time. I don't know, maybe I'd feel a little better if we were talking about a team of 20+ developers, designers and artists with years of experience behind them, working for a big company, promising more updates for a $50 price tag, and then only giving out a demo to the buyers and just sort of letting the project go. That is unacceptable. But indie devs are typically this one/two dudes/girls in their basement/room/garage, creating something that they think would be fun to play.

[100killer9]

Interrupting unrelated convo: Yeah. FPSes... Well, I'm not sure why they are the way they are. They aren't all updated like TF2 is, and yet people still feel entitled to things they aren't. They aren't subscription based, so people don't rationalize their entitlement that way. They paid for a full product, and yet still want more. Maybe they think that Bungie will suffer from them not purchasing future games, but they can't see that Bungie will probably do better off without cheaters in the community.
Maybe it's stupidity among cheaters, maybe it's the popularity of those genres leading to more stupid people. I don't know. But then again, I don't play FPSes, so I couldn't tell you 
Continuing aforementioned convo: It's really that indie devs aren't as able to put out a project as quickly. People don't understand this, because they don't want their purchase to go "unfulfilled". Instead of paying for what is availible, people pay for what will come. I guess.

[freeformschooler]

Continuing aforementioned convo: It's really that indie devs aren't as able to put out a project as quickly. People don't understand this, because they don't want their purchase to go "unfulfilled". Instead of paying for what is availible, people pay for what will come. I guess.

Honestly this business model worked perfectly for Mount & Blade, and I was following that for a while before it was released. Very few whiners.
And yet for stuff like Minecraft we have ~70% of the community whining, immature children.
Maybe indie game devs would be a little better off releasing demos for free and only putting the "pre-order" concept and business model up to the forefront when they know they're going to have a finished game.
But who knows, I've only coded games. I've never released any.

[Zrk2]

I present to you:

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cesspit.net/misc/anomandaris.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cesspit.net/drupal/node/1702&usg=__ptYzSO_dAodtgAg6rAX7IU7qsy0=&h=847&w=576&sz=137&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&itbs=1&tbnid=DWm46JNhQlRltM:&tbnh=145&tbnw=99&prev=/images%3Fq%3Danomander%2Brake%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1

Me. (If the link works.) I am the most elitist because I have a big-assed sword and, look closely, a floating mountain in the background that I stole from a race of hyper advanced lizards roughly 100k years ago. Not also the giant ravens that I command.

[Max White]

I present to you:

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cesspit.net/misc/anomandaris.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cesspit.net/drupal/node/1702&usg=__ptYzSO_dAodtgAg6rAX7IU7qsy0=&h=847&w=576&sz=137&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&itbs=1&tbnid=DWm46JNhQlRltM:&tbnh=145&tbnw=99&prev=/images%3Fq%3Danomander%2Brake%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1

Me. (If the link works.) I am the most elitist because I have a big-assed sword and, look closely, a floating mountain in the background that I stole from a race of hyper advanced lizards roughly 100k years ago. Not also the giant ravens that I command.

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.relaxedpolitics.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/albus_dumbledore1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.relaxedpolitics.com/%3Fp%3D12678&usg=__8fo9X3_BiiVu8ot2j4vjyttXVts=&h=339&w=450&sz=33&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=6fEPLottONhUaM:&tbnh=132&tbnw=179&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddumbledore%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1338%26bih%3D579%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=1040&vpy=113&dur=420&hovh=195&hovw=259&tx=164&ty=140&ei=d33XTM2vEZHGvQP7lryfBQ&oei=d33XTM2vEZHGvQP7lryfBQ&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0

Me. I win.

[Kogan Loloklam]

DF will never get a playerbase that large.

I beg to differ.
I believe Dwarf Fortress may, in fact, be larger than minecraft even now. I've walked through the mall in my city and heard discussions over the merits of embarking with cats. Random strangers talking about dwarf fortress. Minecraft? Nope.
Dwarf fortress is the game that every one of my friends has played. Every single one. Most never even heard of minecraft.

Granted, most people who have played it don't continue to do so, but the amount of people who have tried it is a lot larger than you probably think. The player base is large enough for Toady to get 2k+ every month from random strangers. That's pretty significant, in my opinion.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

2010 October Donations:   $2937.47
2010 September Donations: $2755.52
2010 August Donations:    $2212.95
2010 July Donations:      $3345.83
2010 June Donations:      $2364.29
2010 May Donations:       $3201.62
2010 April Donations:    $16104.49
2010 March Donations:     $4387.99
2010 February Donations:  $1452.57
2010 January Donations:   $2291.50
2009 December Donations:  $4762.98
2009 November Donations:  $5122.29
2009 October Donations:   $1759.27
2009 September Donations: $2138.21
2009 August Donations:    $2510.86
2009 July Donations:      $2202.37
2009 June Donations:      $2723.83
2009 May Donations:       $2221.92
2009 April Donations:     $2549.15
2009 March Donations:     $2997.46
2009 February Donations:  $1428.62
2009 January Donations:   $2099.48

2010 YTD Donations: $41054.23
2009 Donations:       $32516.44
2008 Donations:       $32318.46
2007 Donations:       $19052.28

It's not the 700k that Minecraft supposedly has earned to date, but then again, this is all voluntary donations given to help support someone who is creating something for the betterment of mankind. If that sounds a little pompous, well too bad.

Bay 12 is dedicated to providing original games free of charge

This is a brand old way of supporting artists. Toady is the modern equivelent of the musician showing up in the local tavern and playing for the room, and having coins tossed his way in appreciation. It still costs an arm and a leg to live where he lives though, and I'm damn suprised if he could survive even with 41k a year, and that isn't what he's making, he's making average closer to 32k a year. I was making that before I last got fired and that wasn't enough to live on in a much cheaper area.

On one hand though, he isn't supporting a family like I was. On the other, I am sure he splits at least some of it with Threetoe, which means it probably doesn't accurately represent what he actually has to spend.
As a math professor, I am sure he used to be pulling over 40k a year. He could probably join a programming company and be seeing 60k a year pretty easily.

His act was a huge gamble, and it was clearly done for the love of the game. This is why he has my fanatical devotion. I'd probably break a law if I discovered some jerk was launching a DDoS against Toady nearby. Since I can probably find a Bay12er who lives within 100 miles of any given inhabited area in the united states and I'm betting a lot of people are similar to me... An actual DDoS attack could quickly convert to real life issues for someone if their identity was ever leaked.

Minecraft? Who cares. The guy charges for his game, he should have hired people to prevent exactly this kind of crap.