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[de5me7]

this thread is a few fold question?

1stly does toady take abuse similar to that described in the links below?

 In brief, angry Minecraft players who want more updates, have launched an attack (what ever DDOS is) on minecrafts (servers, or website). To try and coerce its developer into putting out releases faster.

i remember that before the 2010 release there was some heat on some threads about the lack of releases. How bad has it got?


http://tradeskill.blogspot.com/2010/10/gamer-entitlement-going-too-far.html
http://kotaku.com/5669766/minecraft-under-siege-by-angry-addicts-demanding-more-updates



2nd question is, do we as the players have any right to behave like this?


and the third is, Who will pledge their lives to the defence of the honour of the great Toad and his esteemed poet laureate brother.

appologies if this has been discussed before, but narrowing down search criteria is difficult.

[Untouchable]

Most of the time, if people are being massive dicks about a new release then they cop a verbal smackdown fairly quickly. That's how it seems to me.

You've also gotta remember that Minecraft doesn't have the best of communities.

[Sir Finkus]

He shall have my axe



I've been noticing this trend for a while now (just check the tf2 forums after an update...) and it really is disturbing.  I can understand being upset if you paid good money for a game which was changed (or not changed) in a way that upset you, but throwing a fit about it isn't going to help anything.  As far as I know, it's only a minor annoyance to toady in the case of Dwarf Fortress, but I know there have been a few spats in the past. 

Overall, the community has been remarkably patient with the development process, even during the 1 1/2 year gap between 40d and df2010. 

:Edit: Oh, and I bet there's something more to this minecraft thing than it appears.  I would not be at all shocked if lack of updates wasn't the motive.  I haven't played the game, but everything I've seen said about it and notch has been positive. 

[thvaz]

I would kill for the One Toad.

[sutour]

In brief, angry Minecraft players who want more updates, have launched an attack (what ever DDOS is) on minecrafts (servers, or website).

DDOS = Distributed Denial of Service: This is an 'spam' attack in an attempt to hog a server's resources and thus deny use of the server to it's intended services.

2nd question is, do we as the players have any right to behave like this?

Nope. I don't know about the legality everywhere around DDOS but imho it should be illegal seeing that with doing it you are damaging someone else's "property" (ability to deliver their service).
In the case of DF where it is a freeware game (you don't pay but can donate) we have no right to try and push the person. In the case of a bought game you also have paid only for THAT release unless the agreement stipulates that you are paying for the service of 'x amount of releases' which I've not before seen.

All the business models I've seen where you pay a subscription you pay for the service of hosting the game and not further development / bug fixing on the game. These do tend to happen while it is viable to keep customers but is by no means a customer's rights.

[bluephoenix]

Here people don't have the right to complain since they didn't pay any money for DF and if they did it wasn't a purchase of the game, it was a donation.
Toady could just drop it all if he wanted to, there is nothing anyone could do if he decided it to do it (which I hope will not happen untill WW3 and almost everyone gets wipped out).
I don't visit the forums a lot but when I see some stuff which is directed against toady (which luckly does not seem to happen often) I will tell in a civil manner whoever wrote it to F off and release their steam on someone else.

If something horrible/unexplainable would happen that toady needed to get out of america, I would sell anything that I have to so I can personally come from all the way from australia, get toady and his family and get him to somewhere safe, this is how much DF and toady mean to me, it might seem a bit strange or wierd to some people but this is the way I feel (and yes I do have a life and family in case anyone is wondering and I have written this at 1 am).

[rephikul]

if you are disgrunted with the current state of the game, you can always contact toad, invest a few millions of dollar onto the project and set it fly.

[Sir Finkus]

If something horrible/unexplainable would happen that toady needed to get out of america, I would sell anything that I have to so I can personally come from all the way from australia, get toady and his family and get him to somewhere safe, this is how much DF and toady mean to me, it might seem a bit strange or wierd to some people but this is the way I feel (and yes I do have a life and family in case anyone is wondering and I have written this at 1 am).

Slightly creepy.

[Jordrake]

To answer your questions briefly:

1. Nah, we're pretty cool.
2. Hell no.
3. I shall!

[Greiger]

And he shall have my sword!

And my LCS cult group army.

And my WoW druid.

And my Evochron Talon.

And my collection of TF2 gear.

And my...



But yea, even when the game is paid for, DDOSing Notch's stuff is absolutely insane.  If anything that's going to get him fed up and stop developing it, not make him think he needs to put out more updates.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he just got the game to the promised point and dropped it altogether.  I don't see how it could possibly be fun to develop anymore.

[Julius Clonkus]

Will we defend the Toady?

If you are referring to 'fight back until the flamer's sanity explodes in gore!', then yes.

Still, I'm pretty sure the best line of defense we have is the game itself. The learning curve cliff overhang covered in ☼Adamantine barbed wire☼ is a perfect way to sort out those who can't endure to wait.
Everyone who is still in the mood to flame will be too weak to resist the dwarf collective.

[Xerillum]

1: Not that I've seen, the DF community is a bit more mature than the Minecraft community.
2: No, because DF is free, and ddosing someone because they don't update the game enough is insane and stupid.
3: I would, even if he stops work on DF.

[jei]

this thread is a few fold question?
1stly does toady take abuse similar to that described in the links below?

In brief, angry Minecraft players who want more updates, have launched an attack (what ever DDOS is) on minecrafts (servers, or website). To try and coerce its developer into putting out releases faster.
2nd question is, do we as the players have any right to behave like this?
and the third is, Who will pledge their lives to the defence of the honour of the great Toad and his esteemed poet laureate brother.
appologies if this has been discussed before, but narrowing down search criteria is difficult.

Launching DDOS attacks "to speed up releases is the hight of stupidity.  DDOS does nothing but delay any releases, as any intelligent person would know, as it brings only more work. It is also a crime in most places. There is no real defence against it and you can't defend anyone who is taking it, besides tracking down the perpetrators and helping the police to catch them.

I try to speed up releases by doing bug reports, fwiw, though they aren't much appreciated or welcomed, rather the contrary.
Also, I don't think Toady's honor is in any need of defence. He has shown his mettle by making DF. Few of his critics can claim similar feats,
though we can wish for better means to help and partake in his development work.

[Fayrik]

1stly does toady take abuse similar to that described in the links below?

I've heard of nothing like this happening here. And I think it wouldn't be hard to notice it either.

2nd question is, do we as the players have any right to behave like this?

Absolutely not. The way I see it, is that if something will perform to the standards of which it was set out to achieve then there is no additional need for patching.
For example, the current version of Dwarf Fortress - to me - is release worthy software. It does what it say it does, and it's tendancy to crash is minimal. There may be a few minor bugs, but they don't stop you from playing it.
So as far as the topic is concerned, if Toady abandoned the project right now, (See what I did there?) then people in 10 years time will still be enjoying it because it works, not because of the number of features implemented.

(Not sure any of that makes sense, but oh well.)

And, finally...
3. Donations, people! They really are the best way of defending the fortress.
Just send Toady all your Large Serrated Disks Copper Coins!

The learning curve cliff overhang covered in ☼Adamantine barbed wire☼ is a perfect way to sort out those who can't endure to wait.

And what a wonderful defense it is.
I guess you could compare it to keeping Elves out of your trade depot. Beware their cloth!

[riznar]

I'm pretty sick of gamer entitlement in general, legions of complainers simultaneously proud of their bitterness at the same time lamenting that things they used to enjoy are ruined forever.

If people want to be an unpleasable fanbase, I'll be the first to recommend to Toady that he not try to please them.