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[redwallzyl]

I thought the whole point of transgender-ness was that you become a different gender. Not that you become identifiable as a third-party trans gender, but a trans-man is female. Ergo, a woman playing the role is poyfect.

People who want to be some non-existent "gender" are more likely to be some sort of middle-class try-hards rather than actual people with gender dysmorphia. The problem happens when something like that becomes trendy, then you get douchebags going on about being nano-gender or pico-gender just so they can claim to have a slice of that pie - note that it's almost always white middle class ppl who claim to be those weird "pico" genders and having "demi" sexuality. e.g. boring urban cis people jumping on the bandwagon with just one toe.

"Demisexual" is the clearest bullshit. It's a way for otherwise completely uninteresting people to claim they have a queer sexuality and/or gender identity when they clearly do not. "demi-sexual" means you only sleep with people you're really into. Totally breaking out of the mold there, guys! What complete try-hard morons ... that's just called old-fashioned regular dating. We used to (still do) just call that "not being slutty". "Not being slutty" is a gender identity now, it seems, on par with the oppression faced by gays and transgender people!

It also aids the opposition in casting the LGBTQ movement as being about people like that. We right now have two main categories, those being male and female. It is quite an established thing for there to be a third gender in some cultures and generally culture defines theses categories. The third sits in between the main binary and so upsets people of a traditionalist bent (traditional for their cultures at least). A person does not choose where in this they are. The simply are. So when someone comes along and proclaims that they are some other weird thing it both undermines the actual people in the third category and gives ammunition to traditionalists who use them to cast the entire movement as just people coming up with bullshit to make themselves special. I do wish that I had read more anthropological literature on gender in culture. I'm sure it would be really interesting.

[Hanslanda]

People are born one of three genders guys... Hermaphrodite humans are a thing. Now, we're not always born the correct gender, but my point stands. Medically there are three genders.

... Or am I wrong?

[scriver]

Hermaphrodites are not one gender but two

[hector13]

Hermaphrodites are two sexes. Gender is a social/psychological construct.

[redwallzyl]

I'm not sure why people find it hard to grasp the difference between gender and sex. The former is a cultural category and the latter is biological category. You can associate any group of behaviors with gender depending on where and when but sex does not change outside of physical alteration.

[Kagus]

Do anomalies like X and XXY count as sexes? Or is the technical definition of "sex" something unrelated to chromosomes?


And yeah, while it would make sense to cast a trans person in the role of a trans person (as opposed to, say, unironically casting Robert Downey jr. in the role of a black man), I think the big thing here is that it's far more about the name than it is about the individual at that level of filming. The problem isn't that Big Film Inc. isn't casting unknown trans actor #5 in its lead role, it's that smaller films aren't casting unknown trans actor #5 in their lead roles so that they can develop an actual name for themselves and dispense with that ridiculous numeric suffix. Then Big Films might (if Hollywood weren't as horribly corrupt and stereotyped as it is) consider casting them for their A-level production, because they've already got a name associated with them and will thus improve the picture's draw, rather than being an unknown.

So, similar issue, but trying to keep perspective on it. I think mostly I'm just pissed off by people putting the clap emoji in between every word in a tweet.


Also, the film's title is Rub and Tug for fuck's sake. I doubt this is going to be any shining moment of validation for the trans community regardless of who gets into the role.

[pisskop]

Rub and Tug for fuck's sake.

[Reelya]

People are born one of three genders guys... Hermaphrodite humans are a thing. Now, we're not always born the correct gender, but my point stands. Medically there are three genders.

... Or am I wrong?

Biologically, the system intends to make males and females, so all the machinery is there to make either (we're all pretty much genetically identical to a large degree). But nature doesn't deal in absolutes. Natural selection only requires that enough breeders are produced to make the next generation, it doesn't care about whether any individuals is "programmed" correctly. from that perspective it makes sense that you could have someone mostly male, but a few sub-systems got wired the "female" way or vice versa. If there's a spectrum, then I'd say it would be much more likely to be a "jagged" one than a smooth one, since many of the subsystems involved seem fairly independent of each other.

However, even though anything one the spectrum is possible (but because of the vast number of factors, "spectrum" is a complex thing in itself), the system as a whole in evolutionary terms is pulling towards two poles of male/female, because after all, the entire purpose of the exercise of animal existence is to optimize baby-making.

BTW being somewhere on the spectrum is just much more likely than being somewhere far off it. A sexual attraction to say, chairs, is just far less likely than liking male or female humans purely because the machinery for being attracted to males or females already exists in the DNA because of evolution. A small chemical spike either way at the right point in fetus development leads to someone developing Sexuality Type A or Sexuality Type B. Most people, even if bi, tend to have a clear preference in preferred gender. Things far from either of those poles just aren't very likely because they haven't been coded for across a span of millions of years.

[Hanslanda]

This cleared up a lot for me btw.

[Trekkin]

This cleared up a lot for me btw.

Pity it's mostly wrong.

And I do mean that earnestly; biological sex is way more complicated than it appears, and there's not really a good way to divide people neatly into bins that isn't going to make arbitrary distinctions. There's not so much a fixed number of sexes as a whole lot of anatomical and physiological phenomena that usually but do not always coincide, and no one of them can be said to absolutely determine sex by itself, even just in humans -- and if we're going to bring in evolution we should probably acknowledge that it's resulted in a whole array of systems that don't correspond neatly to each other. Gametes don't always correspond to anatomy or to endocrine state, even when there's only one set of each.

[SOLDIER First]

>born as [gender]

birth is parts tho, “hermaphrodite” isn’t a gender

[Magistrum]

Might be a bit off, but as far as I know, purely in the physical character of sexual reproduction species, there are males, females, and defects.
If it is not one of either it is just broken, right?

So it doesn't seem very productive to try to work each little way it can go wrong as a separate sex.

[Dunamisdeos]

Reading the above makes it sound like you folks are saying that there are male and female and genetic disorders.

If that's the conclusion of the highly educated minds here at Bay12, I would simply caution that a person with a genetic disorder is still a person.

[Magistrum]

If that's the conclusion of the highly educated minds here at Bay12, I would simply caution that a person with a genetic disorder is still a person.

A sexless one?
Can this become a trend?

On a more serious note, we might wish to discontinue this topic, as these matters seem as controversial as politics(and for some countries, it very much is).

[Dunamisdeos]

That's true this is not the thread for this. No reason to risk locking it.

Here's a WTF face swap to get things back on track.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)