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Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 14504654 times)

TheBiggerFish

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #119070 on: March 07, 2017, 05:21:20 pm »

Also, videos are terrible, terrible sources. Dear God its painful to have to listen to someone talk at less than a fifth of my reading speed, let along be unable to read back over and select quotes.

This. This oh so much. Personally I wish youtube would disappear along with normal television...
Youtube has good things about it.
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #119071 on: March 07, 2017, 05:21:52 pm »

Okay, the Playboy energy drink review is NOTHING like the Digital Homicide fiasco.

You are SERIOUSLY confusing what this conversation is about

It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Digital Homicide. ZERO! They are completely and utterly related.

Which no wonder you don't understand the source if you keep trying to relate it back to unrelated information.

This is about the "Trademark Takedowns on youtube". Not Copyright claims on youtube, not copyright or trademark claims in court, and not Digital Homicide or anything they did.

and the video I listed gives a pretty good rundown on how it functioned and highlights, if you listen, the issues on it. It doesn't work the same way as a copyright claim in terms of how youtube handles it.

---

And HAPPILY for once... I am not the source of this confusion. I was clear, people brought their own confusions into this. Given my very first post in this conversation outright states what it is... and people just assumed a Trademark claim is the same as a Copyright claim.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 05:25:15 pm by Neonivek »
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Draignean

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #119072 on: March 07, 2017, 05:25:51 pm »

Okay, the Playboy energy drink review is NOTHING like the Digital Homicide fiasco.

You are SERIOUSLY confusing what this conversation is about

It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Digital Homicide. ZERO! They are completely and utterly related.

Err, did you actually watch the video you linked? In that video they make an analogy that attempts to aliken the Digital Homicide video to the Playboy energy drink trademark comlaint. My statement, if you'll read carefully, is saying that this analogy is ill-founded, and the two events are unrelated on any meaningful level.

 The source video you gave is shouting fire because they've mistaken steam for smoke.

EDIT: For the love all that is Holy, Neon, please post your entire post first. Don't edit in chunks at random.

Quote
This is about the "Trademark Takedowns on youtube". Not Copyright claims on youtube, not copyright or trademark claims in court, and not Digital Homicide or anything they did.

and the video I listed gives a pretty good rundown on how it functioned and highlights, if you listen, the issues on it. It doesn't work the same way as a copyright claim in terms of how youtube handles it.

---

And HAPPILY for once... I am not the source of this confusion. I was clear, people brought their own confusions into this. Given my very first post in this conversation outright states what it is... and people just assumed a Trademark claim is the same as a Copyright claim.

I am aware what you're talking about. I'm telling you that your sources are bad and you need to find better ones if you want to impress me with the gravity of the situation.

The evidence you're citing is from a person who admits they don't understand the situation (Which is itself a matter of concern, I'm not denying that) and gives only anecdotal information on the problem. You need journalism to win here, not youtube videos of random people strung together by comments that basically claim that your case is clearly correct.

Neon, please, slow down. All caps isn't need. Clarify if you think there's confusion, but don't go blaming other people. You need to present your evidence clearly and concisely.

« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 05:30:48 pm by Draignean »
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #119073 on: March 07, 2017, 05:26:23 pm »

Also, videos are terrible, terrible sources. Dear God its painful to have to listen to someone talk at less than a fifth of my reading speed, let along be unable to read back over and select quotes.

This. This oh so much. Personally I wish youtube would disappear along with normal television...

Yeah, I hate podcasts and videos as well. At the very least they should provide a transcript. More often than not I dont bother if they don't.
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #119074 on: March 07, 2017, 05:28:35 pm »

Okay, the Playboy energy drink review is NOTHING like the Digital Homicide fiasco.

You are SERIOUSLY confusing what this conversation is about

It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Digital Homicide. ZERO! They are completely and utterly related.

Err, did you actually watch the video you linked? In that video they make an analogy that attempts to aliken the Digital Homicide video to the Playboy energy drink trademark comlaint. My statement, if you'll read carefully, is saying that this analogy is ill-founded, and the two events are unrelated on any meaningful level.

 The source video you gave is shouting fire because they've mistaken steam for smoke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj3gzAkMx3s

This one?

Because in both cases they are someone using the YouTube claim systems to take videos down unfairly... and in this case YouTube has even less barriers

And even IF it was fair... YouTube has no barriers in place to prevent an abuse of this system.

He shows the steps he took in order to find out he even had a trademark strike... As well, he isn't the only one who has received a trademark claim recently.

Yet why are there more trademark claims? Because the DMCA and Copyright claims systems are being cleaned up in small ways (basically Trademark is a way... around the current system created by youtube)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 05:32:12 pm by Neonivek »
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Draignean

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #119075 on: March 07, 2017, 05:31:17 pm »

Neon, see my above Edits. Please, make your posts fully before submitting them.
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #119076 on: March 07, 2017, 05:32:44 pm »

Ok... HOW is my evidence bad?

Beyond you don't like the videos and people shouldn't be trusted if they speak their own words. Even when these words are backed up by evidence.

I provided a claim, I backed up a claim... you counter claimed, you provided no backup.

So prove to me, that even though I gave three sources (Article and two videos...) that Trademark notices function exactly like Copyright claims.

Get out your article.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 05:36:37 pm by Neonivek »
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #119077 on: March 07, 2017, 05:38:40 pm »

Side not:

YAAAY! YouTube has a new type of abuse!

Trademark takedowns!

And they are FAAAAR worse then the copyright claims have ever been!

By the way... this was the first post of the conversation.

So no drawing upon anything else, or sidestepping, or claiming hyperbole. This is the topic. If you are going to bring me to this drench of a conversation, then we are going to have it... in... full! and I am going to hold you up to standards.
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Draignean

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #119078 on: March 07, 2017, 05:39:29 pm »

Ok... HOW is my evidence bad?

Beyond you don't like the videos.


1. It's Anecdotal. Not necessarily damning, but you need wider studies and information on both sides of the isle.
2. The Trademark claims that have been listed in the videos are all perfectly valid.
3. Both Videos revolve around the same single incident as an example for trademark takedowns, and incident which happened to that individual. This compromises impartiality.

Again, I'm not saying these videos are bad, I'm not saying they're wrong, I'm saying they're not good sources and do not incontrovertibly lead to the conclusion that, and I quote you, "Trademark claims allow companies to take down videos UNHINDERED!"
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #119079 on: March 07, 2017, 05:46:50 pm »

1. It's Anecdotal. Not necessarily damning, but you need wider studies and information on both sides of the isle.
2. The Trademark claims that have been listed in the videos are all perfectly valid.
3. Both Videos revolve around the same single incident as an example for trademark takedowns, and incident which happened to that individual. This compromises impartiality.

Again, I'm not saying these videos are bad, I'm not saying they're wrong, I'm saying they're not good sources and do not incontrovertibly lead to the conclusion that, and I quote you, "Trademark claims allow companies to take down videos UNHINDERED!"

-1) There is no study REQUIRED it is a system within youtube that already exists. What would you be studying? Nothing!
-2) No, they aren't... that is a complete misunderstanding of how Trademark works. At no point did either of them claim that the product was theirs or that they are the owners of said product... NOR was there any confusion over it. (And in the Playboy case it is even more deliciously fraudulent... so much so it might actually go to court)
-3) Impartiality is not a requirement for evidence. No one is thrown out of court because they were shot by the defendant in a case where the defendant allegedly shot them. That is ridiculous.

Again... show me EVIDENCE! that you do not have. Show me how Trademark takedown works on YouTube if you so believe these sources inaccurate.

---

The conversation isn't about how widespread destructive the trademark claim system is. It is that it is an bad system... and that video shows it was.

As... even if we accept that 100% Playboy had every single legal right to take down that video. The defendant had 24 hours to counter and the receiver was not youtube itself.

---

But the BEST part about this conversation the REALLY juicy part is...

To prove my point all I have to do... is lie back, relax, and wait. The only way I'll be proven wrong is if YouTube actually straightens this out before it gets bad.

And... I have little faith in YouTube to fix that.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 05:51:07 pm by Neonivek »
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Draignean

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #119080 on: March 07, 2017, 06:03:35 pm »

1. It's Anecdotal. Not necessarily damning, but you need wider studies and information on both sides of the isle.
2. The Trademark claims that have been listed in the videos are all perfectly valid.
3. Both Videos revolve around the same single incident as an example for trademark takedowns, and incident which happened to that individual. This compromises impartiality.

Again, I'm not saying these videos are bad, I'm not saying they're wrong, I'm saying they're not good sources and do not incontrovertibly lead to the conclusion that, and I quote you, "Trademark claims allow companies to take down videos UNHINDERED!"

-1) There is no study REQUIRED it is a system within youtube that already exists. What would you be studying? Nothing!
-2) No, they aren't... that is a complete misunderstanding of how Trademark works. At no point did either of them claim that the product was theirs or that they are the owners of said product... NOR was there any confusion over it. (And in the Playboy case it is even more deliciously fraudulent... so much so it might actually go to court)
-3) Impartiality is not a requirement for evidence. No one is thrown out of court because they were shot by the defendant in a case where the defendant allegedly shot them. That is ridiculous.

Again... show me EVIDENCE! that you do not have. Show me how Trademark takedown works on YouTube if you so believe these sources inaccurate.

Wait, I need to show you evidence to prove your claim isn't true?

Neon, that's not how claims work. You make claim, you provide evidence. We either accept or reject based on given evidence. From there you can either provide more evidence or resign yourself to some people not being convinced. Arguing that your evidence is just fine and everyone else is wrong doesn't go far.

1. Yes, a study is absolutely needed. You would be studying case reports, going over a set of incidents, looking at both parties involved, and weighing the validity of the claim against the action taken by Youtube. This is called Journalism.
2. Um. Neon, no. Tradmark law is complex, but this situation is simple. Let me break down the Playboy case for you.

A. There is a famous company called Playboy.
B. There is a not-so famous company that makes an item that uses Playboy's image to sell their product, but this not-so famous company is utterly unrelated to Playboy.
C. An individual makes a video reviewing the non-legitimate product.
D. Playboy successfully makes a trademark claim against the counterfeiting company.
E. Playboy then makes a successful trademark claim against the video comparing the two products.

It doesn't matter that the review knew they were two separate entities and one was a knockoff. The original company still has the right to not be associated with the knock-off.

Imagine if an Indie company calls itself Bethesda Softworks and makes the world's shittiest open world game. Real ZeniMax comes in and files a copyright claim against the fake. Actual Zenimax should have the ability to remove or force changes made to reviewers who (quite rightfully) reviewed the game and said that Bethesda Softworks is a steaming pile of dog feces.

If I am in error, please locate the section of case law stating otherwise and forward it to me. I'll happily read it.

3. Uh, that's a terrible example. In court cases, a person is nearly never (I've never heard of it) convicted on the word of one person alone. No, the accuser is not thrown out, and their testimony is not discarded, but how many court cases have you ever heard of where the sole evidence was the word of one person against another? As I said, I'm not saying they're wrong, but you need the equivalent of ballistics information, finger prints, camera footage, etc. Impartial evidence.

EDIT:
Neon, complete posts. Please. You're giving me conniptions.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #119081 on: March 07, 2017, 06:18:41 pm »

3. Uh, that's a terrible example. In court cases, a person is nearly never (I've never heard of it) convicted on the word of one person alone. No, the accuser is not thrown out, and their testimony is not discarded, but how many court cases have you ever heard of where the sole evidence was the word of one person against another? As I said, I'm not saying they're wrong, but you need the equivalent of ballistics information, finger prints, camera footage, etc. Impartial evidence.


Just gonna pop in and say that this totes mcgoats happens constantly, and is the subject of lots of indignation in the US court system.

Poppin out.
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Jopax

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #119082 on: March 07, 2017, 06:22:01 pm »

Conniptions is such a damn cool sounding word, I could say it for days and not get bored (freaked out when it starts to sound wierd and not like a word anymore yes, but bored? no).
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #119083 on: March 07, 2017, 06:31:26 pm »

I am just going to ignore reponses to the current topic because... well... Like I don't know where they are going (If all of a sudden people are like "Ohhh THAT is what you mean? ohh sorry man. I completely misunderstood my bad" them PM me and let me know... but right now we are in the "I am going to argue something different" phase where people ALSO typically jump in and say unrelated things to counter my own)... THAT and I am incredibly peeved off and you need to take a break from that too.

And before you jump down my throat for even saying that. What do you think me adding anything will do either? I am not going to say I am wrong, nor would I drop the conversation... and as much as people label me as being unreasonable, it isn't like many people are actually willing to extent a branch of peace either, typically leaving it up to me to end the conversation usually after they have had last words usually amounting to "I am right, and you are unreasonably extending this conversation". (Hence my "If you truly want to end it, then let me have last words" rule... If you have to bemoan your opponent isn't relenting, then let them have final say. It would be like crying that someone is being violent and wont stop being violent while kicking them. You are hardly a peace maker)

---

Anyone ever get annoyed when characters just... act like they are in a genre for no reason?

I understand that a typical staple of horror is awkwardness... but while some pieces fully justify it (Stepford Wives, the Spiral Curse, Shadow over Innsmouth).

Others just seem like... Everyone is somehow innately aware they are in a horror and refuse to act like they are a human being.

To admit... though... even though it is stupid... It is why Fatal Frame terrified me... I was scared of dialog more than I was the ghosts (DEAR GOODNESS talk like a normal person! why does everyone speak in hushed tones? AHHH!). Yet I can't chalk it up to good writing (then again given fatal frame is about ghosts... I guess speaking as if someone might hear you... Is kind of... thematic... so I might be being unfair to Fatal Frame).

THOUGH this is still WAAAAY preferred to "Jerk World" settings where everyone is a sociopathic jerk... So... I guess it isn't that bad.
-I need a really good example of a Jerk World setting that people have seen... since the Halloween remake isn't exactly well known.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 06:40:05 pm by Neonivek »
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Draignean

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #119084 on: March 07, 2017, 06:33:00 pm »

3. Uh, that's a terrible example. In court cases, a person is nearly never (I've never heard of it) convicted on the word of one person alone. No, the accuser is not thrown out, and their testimony is not discarded, but how many court cases have you ever heard of where the sole evidence was the word of one person against another? As I said, I'm not saying they're wrong, but you need the equivalent of ballistics information, finger prints, camera footage, etc. Impartial evidence.


Just gonna pop in and say that this totes mcgoats happens constantly, and is the subject of lots of indignation in the US court system.

Poppin out.

Eh, fair play, but the point is that there IS indignation and we generally accept that it's a bad idea.

Conniptions is such a damn cool sounding word, I could say it for days and not get bored (freaked out when it starts to sound wierd and not like a word anymore yes, but bored? no).

Ikr?

Conniptions, Dratitude, and Apoplexy. The holy trinity of being distressed.
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