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[Orange Wizard]

... what Freud did OTHER than his controversial sex-orbital principles ... Oedipus complex ... Electra complex ...

[TempAcc]

Freud opened the field for others to study, but didn't do a great deal with it himself. Jung contributed a lot more to it, but even his work was kinda questionable, but hey, at least he didn't fuck his patients :v

[scriver]

And Socrates: invented the Socratic method, but got killed for it.

No, Socrates got executed because his followers had twice overthrown Athenian democracy and attempted to institute aristocracy. That, for fairly self-evident reasons, pissed people off. That Socrates defense pretty much amounted to "hey I didn't overthrow it, I only instructed my followers about how democracy is super bad because everyone but me are idiots and only people like me should rule and taught about how the democratic type should be overthrown" didn't help either.

Considering Socrates had basically been engaging in the philosophical equivalent of "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you! Why are you getting mad? I'm not touching you! The air is free!" for decades at that point it's no wonder they finally got fed up with his bullshit.

[TD1]

I don't think you can boil it down that far. As the Gadfly of Athenian democracy, his method of inquiry offended and angered a lot of people. Powerful people.

Though Socrates was also possibly offered escape and he said "nah man Hemlock sounds better to me."

[NJW2000]

According to Plato.

[TD1]

Hence the "possibly."

Though pretty much everything we know about Socrates comes from Plato. Aristophane's presentation is always worth a laugh, though

[TempAcc]

Since socrates didn't write anything down, pretty much everything we know of him comes from Plato. In all honesty, athenian democracy was notoriously decadent and corrupt at the time for all we know, so I wouldn't doubt that socrates going around saying "hey guys I dont think our leaders know whats best for us" was enough reason for him to be executed at the time.

They only took a rather long time to notice him because he wasn't actively trying to form an organized movement.

I mean, at the time, the Peloponnesian War was on and athens was getting fucked up by Sparta and allies while the Athenian ruling elite basically threw their salads while everyone suffered. I'd say its a pretty decent reason to go around speaking against the government and the stablished ideas once he got back home when the war ended.

[scriver]

They only took a rather long time to notice him because he wasn't actively trying to form an organized movement.

Socrates was well know and active in the political sphere. "They" didn't take long to notice him, he wanted to be noticed. You seem present a scenario of Athenian authorities "taking long to noticed Socrates" and then executing him on the spot for his opinions as soon as they did just for the sake of being dissident, but that is not the case: Socrates was allowed to teach his anti-democratic teachings even after the first time his followers had staged a violent coup to install themselves as rulers. It was only after the second coup they decided it was necessary to remove the root of the problem too.

[TD1]

Of course, there are also the official reasons - polluting the youth, atheism, etc.

If he'd been actively trying to destabilise the government, they'd probably use that as an excuse - after all, to speak against the Polis was the only thing in Athenian democracy you couldn't speak of. No doubt they could have tried him with that.

Also, I hadn't heard of these coups. I'm interested to hear about them? Was he with them, or were they just intellectuals in general? Because my vague recollection is that Socrates was very unpopular with the Spartan Tyrants, something about an execution order or something?

[scriver]

Socrates weren't particularly unpopular with the Tyrants, they exiled or executed everyone who opposed them or they disliked. All Socrates ever did to "oppose" them was to refuse to participate in th execution of an actual dissident and democrat. That this refusal to obey their orders didn't result in Socrates himself going on their murder list speaks more towards him being unusually well liked by the junta.

Also yeah, the Thirty Tyrants oligarchy set up by the Spartans was one of the coups - the oligarchs in question weren't Spartan though but Athenian citizens who opposed the democratic system, and many of them, most prominently one of their two foremost leaders, were Socrates' pupils.

Lastly - I see the "corrupting the minds of the youth" not to refer to rocknroll and drugs moral corruption but the moral corruption of inciting people against the democratic system and instilling values in opposition of it. So it is part of the official crimes he was judged for.

[Aklyon]

English intos english whatever english pleases.

It takes all the things, but only when it wants to. Thats why I've heard it called the most confusing before.

[TheBiggerFish]

English intos english whatever english pleases.

It takes all the things, but only when it wants to. Thats why I've heard it called the most confusing before.

(Because it is.)

[ManMan]

I just noticed that the forum games and roleplaying board is the one with the most posts, almost one million. What the hell, I thought this forum was famous for dwarf fortress?

[TheBiggerFish]

I just noticed that the forum games and roleplaying board is the one with the most posts, almost one million. What the hell, I thought this forum was famous for dwarf fortress?

Freeform.
Spam.

The end.

Also, lots of Above Poster sort of threads.

[TD1]

Socrates weren't particularly unpopular with the Tyrants, they exiled or executed everyone who opposed them or they disliked. All Socrates ever did to "oppose" them was to refuse to participate in th execution of an actual dissident and democrat. That this refusal to obey their orders didn't result in Socrates himself going on their murder list speaks more towards him being unusually well liked by the junta.

Actually, from what I recall he only survived because the oligarchy went bye bye soon afterwards. It wasn't because of his influence or anything. Also, Socrates had a lot of students - doesn't mean he supported them all. Alcibiadies (not sure on spelling) was one of them, but that doesn't mean he supported, for example, the Sicilian mission necessarily.

Lastly - I see the "corrupting the minds of the youth" not to refer to rocknroll and drugs moral corruption but the moral corruption of inciting people

I don't think so. I'm fairly certain it was because of the ideas he had on religion. The Aristophanes play of the time showed Socrates being accused of corrupting the minds of the youth - through his ideas on religion.