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[Digital Hellhound]

Sorry for the doublepost, but I'm curious, is there any interest in another succession game? Perhaps one that needs DLC this time, instead of a strict Christian game? Maybe a custom dynasty? Or Duke Laszlo of Transylvania? Oh, a modded one could be fun. Maybe After the End or AGoT?

Could just revive the prior one.  We're most of the way to the end of that one anyway, may as well finish it up.

I actually ended up playing it to the end (from my last save, not the thread's latest point), so I could convert and get a fresh EUIV start scenario. It, uh, was interesting. The 'secret Orthodox' Old Christians society infiltrated almost the entirety of Catholic Christendom, meaning that the HRE and France were openly and almost fully Orthodox by the end of the game, with the Aztecs also Orthodox at times. In our beloved Alexandria, they got to every single heir and the vast majority of our vassals, repeatedly, which meant Orthodox counties popping up all the time in our glorious Catholic empire.

I ended up forming both Egypt and Jerusalem after declaring independence when the Pope tried to take shit from me too many times. My last guy actually became the leader of the Old Christians despite being publicly Catholic and fighting the spread of Orthodoxy to the end of the game. In my defense, you get a hefty opinion bonus from society members, and practically everyone was a society member (I'm pretty sure secret Orthodoxes outnumbered actual Catholics in the game... takes the secret out of 'secret society', huh).

Is this a general problem with Monks and Mystics, or a bug-ish thing caused by continuing an older-version save? I'm not gonna lie, it was pretty hilarious to see Catholicism crumble from the inside despite 100% Moral Authority... to Orthodox. One way to repair the Schism, I guess.

[Teneb]

Sorry for the doublepost, but I'm curious, is there any interest in another succession game? Perhaps one that needs DLC this time, instead of a strict Christian game? Maybe a custom dynasty? Or Duke Laszlo of Transylvania? Oh, a modded one could be fun. Maybe After the End or AGoT?

Could just revive the prior one.  We're most of the way to the end of that one anyway, may as well finish it up.

I actually ended up playing it to the end (from my last save, not the thread's latest point), so I could convert and get a fresh EUIV start scenario. It, uh, was interesting. The 'secret Orthodox' Old Christians society infiltrated almost the entirety of Catholic Christendom, meaning that the HRE and France were openly and almost fully Orthodox by the end of the game, with the Aztecs also Orthodox at times. In our beloved Alexandria, they got to every single heir and the vast majority of our vassals, repeatedly, which meant Orthodox counties popping up all the time in our glorious Catholic empire.

I ended up forming both Egypt and Jerusalem after declaring independence when the Pope tried to take shit from me too many times. My last guy actually became the leader of the Old Christians despite being publicly Catholic and fighting the spread of Orthodoxy to the end of the game. In my defense, you get a hefty opinion bonus from society members, and practically everyone was a society member (I'm pretty sure secret Orthodoxes outnumbered actual Catholics in the game... takes the secret out of 'secret society', huh).

Is this a general problem with Monks and Mystics, or a bug-ish thing caused by continuing an older-version save? I'm not gonna lie, it was pretty hilarious to see Catholicism crumble from the inside despite 100% Moral Authority... to Orthodox. One way to repair the Schism, I guess.

Did you have the DLC? Pretty much main criticism with M&M is that the councilor job to hunt cults is paywalled when it is absolutely critical to keeping the secret religions in check. Also it is too easy for someone to be converted.

As for the whole DLC thing, I don't mind the CK2 model other than the above complaint. It fleshes out things that weren't part of 1.0 (such as non-catholics, who were reskinned, unplayable catholics with no mechanics (orthodoxes being reskinned, playable catholics with no mechanics), or new governments).

Game development is not easy or cheap, and you can't include everything you want in the initial release, especially if a suit is breathing down your neck. The problem is that some devs and/or most of the executives behind them, decide to go overboard and demand a DLC plan before the game is even out. CK2's DLC system is good. What I dread, though, is that Paradox may not follow it for a potential sequel in the future. EU4 was missing a lot of EU3's Divine Wind stuff for the eastern powers, for example, and it got added via DLC recently.

[Tawa]

It's a weird issue that showed up when 2.7.2 came out. Along with adding cults for all of the religions, including unreformed pagans and heretics, it made recruiting for cults easier, because beforehand it was stiflingly difficult to recruit people for your cult and it was practically impossible to do anything with it. (I remember my attempts at a Zoroastrian run kept getting screwed up by my heir refusing to convert.) The issue now is that it spreads crazy fast and is almost impossible to prevent. They recruit everybody they can--courtiers, minor vassals, family members, anybody--and it spreads like wildfire from there. The AI joins cults for the hell of it, and Hunt Apostates works way too slowly to root out everyone. It's compounded by the fact that banishing these characters or otherwise allowing them to go to other realms just causes them to turn the cult international.

If it were up to me, I'd make it difficult or impossible for anybody to convert anybody who's not important (a councillor, a count-tier or higher ruler, or a member of your direct family) and make it so you need something particularly convincing to convert a ruler (like the ruler having Cynical, preexisting religious sympathies, or a friendship with the cultist.) Additionally, I'd significantly reduce the chance of characters falsely converting when their conversion is demanded by their liege, make Christian and Dharman rulers always refuse to join cults for non-heretical religions in the same group, and perhaps require AI rulers to have something like Zealous, a good religious education, or a high Learning stat to found a cult in the first place.

Barring (or perhaps in addition to) that, I'd add an ironman-compatible option to make it so only the player can found a cult, similarly to how by default only the player can become immortal, satanspawn, or wolf's blood, or how you can turn off the AI taking the Seduction or Intrigue foci.

[misko27]

Honestly my biggest issue, in most Paradox games actually, is how thoroughly boring Orthodox is. It's just, there. It's best claim to fame is "We, endure". Catholicism is just so thoroughly, disgustingly broken if you are an emperor (which most characters aspire to be), while in Orthodoxy; by contrast I bet a large number of people play primarily as (The) emperor to start out with, where it's just so much weaker (while ironically being great for Kings, which almost no one Orthodox is).

I actually ended up playing it to the end (from my last save, not the thread's latest point), so I could convert and get a fresh EUIV start scenario. It, uh, was interesting. The 'secret Orthodox' Old Christians society infiltrated almost the entirety of Catholic Christendom, meaning that the HRE and France were openly and almost fully Orthodox by the end of the game, with the Aztecs also Orthodox at times. In our beloved Alexandria, they got to every single heir and the vast majority of our vassals, repeatedly, which meant Orthodox counties popping up all the time in our glorious Catholic empire.

I ended up forming both Egypt and Jerusalem after declaring independence when the Pope tried to take shit from me too many times. My last guy actually became the leader of the Old Christians despite being publicly Catholic and fighting the spread of Orthodoxy to the end of the game. In my defense, you get a hefty opinion bonus from society members, and practically everyone was a society member (I'm pretty sure secret Orthodoxes outnumbered actual Catholics in the game... takes the secret out of 'secret society', huh).

Is this a general problem with Monks and Mystics, or a bug-ish thing caused by continuing an older-version save? I'm not gonna lie, it was pretty hilarious to see Catholicism crumble from the inside despite 100% Moral Authority... to Orthodox. One way to repair the Schism, I guess.

That is absolutely hilarious. I need to resume playing as soon as my semester ends. Ugh...

[umiman]

How is being an Orthodox emperor weaker than a Catholic one? How is being a Catholic emperor broken?

Off the top of my head I can think of not having access to most holy orders, but who cares about those when you're at emperor level.

Is there anything else? Crusades?

[Tawa]

How is being an Orthodox emperor weaker than a Catholic one? How is being a Catholic emperor broken?

Off the top of my head I can think of not having access to most holy orders, but who cares about those when you're at emperor level.

Is there anything else? Crusades?

Those are the only things I can think of, too.

Vassalising the pope doesn't change anything compared to vassalising the Ecumenical Patriarch. I've never touched the college of cardinals stuff...

Yes it does. The Pope can call crusades where you want them and when you want them (effectively giving you the Great Holy War power of a Caliph or Fylkir,) give you money, and excommunicate anybody you want. The Patriarch can't call crusades or give you money, and can only excommunicate people he has jurisdiction over (mostly just Greece.)

[hector13]

You also essentially have claims on all Catholic rulers' holdings with a vassal Pope.

[misko27]

Yes it's mostly the "I want claims give me claims mr. pope man". "OK" Also the part where you can just shake him down for money like a Papal pinata. Also, the part where you can excommunicate any catholic anywhere because they looked at you funny.

Spoiler: But mostly this(WARNING BIGASS IMAGE) (click to show/hide)

That's a little much. If you aren't abusing the hell of vassal Pope you aren't doing it correctly, unfortunately.

[Teneb]

Yes it's mostly the "I want claims give me claims mr. pope man". "OK" Also the part where you can just shake him down for money like a Papal pinata. Also, the part where you can excommunicate any catholic anywhere because they looked at you funny.

Spoiler: But mostly this(WARNING BIGASS IMAGE) (click to show/hide)

That's a little much. If you aren't abusing the hell of vassal Pope you aren't doing it correctly, unfortunately.

You can resize an image by adding width=x height=y inside the img tag. so (img width=800) can often be enough (if you only put in one of the two values, it will resize the other on its own)

[misko27]

Yes it's mostly the "I want claims give me claims mr. pope man". "OK" Also the part where you can just shake him down for money like a Papal pinata. Also, the part where you can excommunicate any catholic anywhere because they looked at you funny.

Spoiler: But mostly this(WARNING BIGASS IMAGE) (click to show/hide)

That's a little much. If you aren't abusing the hell of vassal Pope you aren't doing it correctly, unfortunately.

You can resize an image by adding width=x height=y inside the img tag. so (img width=800) can often be enough (if you only put in one of the two values, it will resize the other on its own)

Alright. I went with 1200 because the whole point is the tons of tiny text. It's important to know that they have claims on everything from the Duchy of Lombardy to Aquitaine to Holland, and everything inbetween.

Catholicism is balanced around the Pope. The fact that you can own Pope breaks it. Fylkir, by contrast, was designed with the fact that the player will literally be the Fylkir 9 times out of ten in mind. It's still stupidly powerful, but it doesn't have "Oh and now Europe does whatever you tell it to" thing. Pope has claims to annihilate Catholics, and Crusades to crush heretics and Heathens, plus the whole "pinata" thing to fund your armies (and since the Pope gets money from priests the world over, he only ever gets more money to punch out). Only the Orthodox and Copts are safe from vassal pope.

[Ibid Straydrink]

I have united all of Europe under one flag and ended wars among her people once and for all. For this, I credit the imperial instatement of matriarchy and state-sponsored intercultural marriages.

[Fewah]

Does anyone find the some of the unit Models really need redoing?

I specifically find the Byzantium ones pretty low quality, at least the generic ones all got an upgrade or replaced.

Even the viking models are starting to look dated.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Looks like Paradox consolidated their cosmetic DLCs into a few big packs rather than all of the smaller ones.  Also, looks like we're getting some new CBs.

[umiman]

Looks like Paradox consolidated their cosmetic DLCs into a few big packs rather than all of the smaller ones.  Also, looks like we're getting some new CBs.

They probably realized seeing the gigantic horde of DLC offerings for CK2 is chasing off potential customers. Wonder if they'll consolidate the non-cosmetic ones as well.

Edit: I hope they let us consolidate the cosmetic DLCs we bought before too... now the only way for me to really check if I have a specific cosmetic DLC is to go into each individual store page and look for them. I know I have most if not all, but if I want to make sure I'll have to check every single one.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Looks like Paradox consolidated their cosmetic DLCs into a few big packs rather than all of the smaller ones.  Also, looks like we're getting some new CBs.

They probably realized seeing the gigantic horde of DLC offerings for CK2 is chasing off potential customers. Wonder if they'll consolidate the non-cosmetic ones as well.

Not sure.  They might in some time, but for now, the sheer reduction does make the section look quite a bit better.