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[Quartz_Mace]

The plan of the slut queen of England hasn't gone according to plan... Catholicism regained it's moral authority and the HRE bashed me down with about 40,000 troops until I had to surrender the duchy of Bedford, so I decided to swear fealty to the Kaiser, murdered his wife, then married him (patrillemially, the only way I could). Now, that queen's dead, my new character married the new Kaiser, got thrown in prison due to some wierd shenanigans in which a vassal of mine attempted to press a claim on the HRE, and I was listed as the head of the war, seduced the guard to escape, remarried the kaiser, only to divorce when he discovered she had a few minor affairs, raised my opinion back up to 100, and now I'm unmarried, stuck with ultimingure succession, and am attempting to install a Cathar Kaiser/in, but I'm forbidden from plots. I have one prince from the HRE who became my marshal and I was able to convert, but I don't think I can get him on the throne. I'm younger than the current Kaiser and have the attractive trait, so I should be able to marry the next Kaiser when the time comes. Is there any way I could convert my husband? If not, how can I convert a member of the HRE posited to take the throne (elective succession)?

[scriver]

Actually holy wars only seem to target counties.  When I was holy-warring for the byzantine empire, I had to usurp each duchy after I won it.  If I didn't get all the counties (because of 3rd parties holding them) I don't think I *could* usurp because of the religious difference, you have to own 100% in that case.

Indeed. My holy war experience is the same. As long as the previous owner still has other lands, he will retain the title itself after loosing a holy war. If you take all his lands, the title becomes vacant.

[Vgray]

Huh. Was it always like that?

Meanwhile, the muslim lords of Sicily have broken away after I went to all the trouble of putting the Sheikh of Malta back in his place and my king has been imprisioned by his usurper cousin.

[scriver]

I can't say if it was like that at release, but it's been the way for many versions. I can't remembering it having worked otherways, even.

Also, in case anyone else missed it: They released an opt-in patch beta last Friday.

[Sheb]

Crusaders Kings + fix that so you get the duchy title after a holy war.

[scriver]

I don't see anything wrong with not getting it by default, really. You're not really warring for the title itself.

[dennislp3]

unless the title is titular why should you not get it?

If one owns all the land associated with a duchy...would it not stand to reason that you are the de facto title holder?

[ArKFallen]

unless the title is titular why should you not get it?

If one owns all the land associated with a duchy...would it not stand to reason that you are the de facto title holder?

They become a government in exile and you the occupier.

[scriver]

Indeed, you become the de facto owner of the land. They're still the rightful owners, though. That's why the title remains in their hands.

[dennislp3]

Perhaps...but when the only difference in this game is clicking a button that says "usurp title" it seems kind of silly...and especially annoying when they are at war with some random person and you cant usurp the title til they are done.

It would be far better represented by simply giving the losing side a strong claim on the duchy (as opposed to the counties within the duchy) and leaving it at that. This way in a worst case scenario where they were truly exiled with no lands they could still form an adventure party against you

[Sheb]

It would be nice if you could create another title, maybe a titular duchy of whatever the place is you took. And counties would drift to the titular duchy after a certain amount of time.

[dennislp3]

That would be the realistic way to handle it...and pretty much how it works/worked in real life

[scriver]

Perhaps...but when the only difference in this game is clicking a button that says "usurp title" it seems kind of silly...

Indeed again, but those are the mechanics they chose to differentiate between de jure and de facto ownership/overlordship, and how the latter can be turned into the former. A game cannot adequately portray the intricacies of real life politics etc etc.

It would be nice if you could create another title, maybe a titular duchy of whatever the place is you took. And counties would drift to the titular duchy after a certain amount of time.

Or if when you usurped a ducal title from somebody not in your realm, he gets a titular title of "Contesting Duke of Sicily" or something like that. Or maybe not.

Anyway it would also be good if people could remain "titled" after they've lost all lands and vassals so we could have real "governments-in-exile". Then again, it would be nice if claimants of important enough titles actually had AI for lobbying their new,liege to wage a take-back war for their title to begin with.

[Rolan7]

Usurping or creating a title does cost a small but considerable bit of money, I assume to pay scribes and scholars to handle the official documents.  In my headcanon there's also a ceremony, the size of which depends on how much the title actually means to me.  There are also reasons to avoid having titles (though I tend to create all I can).
Also, to clarify, the former ruler will still have the duchy title until you usurp it.  It gives them prestige, duke-rank, and dejure casus belli.

But I *think* that if you have 100% of the duchy, you can usurp it even if the character's at war.  Unless there's a war over *that title*, in which case you probably waited a while.

[Kanil]

So, I'm just happily conquering along, roll over the last province of the King of Armenia, and suddenly I start getting spammed with prisoners wanting to be put under house arrest. I check it out and apparently I imprisoned approximately 400 women within the last year.

This is very confusing, so I explore around a bit, and I notice the Ecumenical Patriarch has 700 courtiers, mostly men.

I'm not really sure what happened, but I get the feeling that all of Byzantium's male refugees went to the Patriach, and all the female ones went to Armenia.