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Author Topic: Crusader Kings 2 is released.  (Read 2112559 times)

Sindain

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #5175 on: March 28, 2014, 06:15:42 pm »

So, how does Decadency works now ? And how is ROI so far ?

*disclaimer* I have not actually played Muslims in RoI yet

Nowadays Decadence is only given by dynasts with a certain trait, and apparently its really easy to get rid off, just with a diplomatic decision. According to the forums its really easy to stay at 0% Decadence.

As for RoI, horribly buggy, I'm personally waiting for a patch. Places out of India might not be so bad, and I did get some enjoyment before endless hordes of religious rebels drove me out, but its pretty bad atm.
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mainiac

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #5176 on: March 28, 2014, 08:08:10 pm »

Is... Is there a video of this?  I wouldn't mind watching that happen.

No video but there is this: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?734972-How-to-conquer-the-world-in-25-years.
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Rilder

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #5177 on: March 28, 2014, 11:44:30 pm »

That is.. I think I'm gonna stick to playing my normal style.

On a side note, Gurus can be awesome, I managed to get one that had 35 learning. (And 20 diplomacy which is what I needed him for) Sadly he was blind and died of that soon after I finished using him to claim a title I wanted.
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umiman

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #5178 on: March 29, 2014, 04:08:47 am »

I started a new game as the Emperor of Byzantine with the goal of getting the SPQR achievement where you need to obtain all of Rome's original borders as Rome.

It's hell of a lot more difficult than I expected. I'm not sure if this is a recent change but even at 900AD, all the Muslim castles have over 1500 men defending them. I think they made the AI more hesitant to raise their troops, so practically every single county has all its levies combined with the guards making sieges take forever. They also seem to have made it so the AI will do everything it can to combine all its forces into doomstacks. In addition, they've made the AI a lot more prone to naval assaults. It will happily use a small fleet to move its doomstacks around super quickly around the coastlines, making it quite difficult to intercept.

They also seem to have done something to the AI that determines if your vassals are going to revolt. I basically have guaranteed succession crises even though there shouldn't be any. For example, my single children successors still get massive entire-empire revolutions even though every single one of the vassals revolting has 30+ relations with them. It's kinda crazy. The only way it seems to stop people from revolting whenever there's a leadership change is to throw them in prison.

I haven't really had any problems with religious rebels at least. They pop up once in a blue moon, but the stacks are so tiny, usually about 3000 men, that they're just free prestige and piety.

It's about 960AD so far and I barely got anywhere. I have the bottom half of Italy, and have reached Jerusalem, but my progress really should have been faster.

Mongol13524

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #5179 on: March 29, 2014, 03:40:37 pm »

The AI and defensive vs offensive balance got overhauled with Sons of Abraham, I think. Those religious rebels may not be too big a threat when they start out, but if you don't crush them swiftly they'll gather more support and snowball their way to Constantinople. If ever feel bad about your performance in Paradox game, look at how little the maps tended to change in real life.
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PanH

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #5180 on: March 29, 2014, 04:37:25 pm »

It's hell of a lot more difficult than I expected. I'm not sure if this is a recent change but even at 900AD, all the Muslim castles have over 1500 men defending them. I think they made the AI more hesitant to raise their troops, so practically every single county has all its levies combined with the guards making sieges take forever.
Wasn't this a result of the nerf of levies, so castles of a vassal will get nearly its full levy aswell, meaning a big castle ?
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umiman

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #5181 on: March 29, 2014, 07:10:42 pm »

Warning: Huge image
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I did it!

All the changes to make combat harder made this achievement a lot more challenging to get than I expected. In the past, probably under Old Gods, this level of progress would only have taken half as long. Not to mention the neverending jihads and holy wars from the Sunni Muslims. The Muslims even get holy orders now, though I get one too.

Along with this achievement, I also got the one for reforming the schism. So if I turned on religion mapmode, you'd see the entirety of Europe covered in either Orthodoxy or heretic Catholics.

From here on, there are two more things I can do. I can use the amazing Imperial Reconquest CB to get the achievement for reforming Rome's borders. I can also head down to Mecca and Media to get the achievement for conquering every single holy site.

But I think I'll take a break. That was actually quite difficult and stressful haha.

------------

Panh:

Yeah, that might explain it. The only castles that are easy to conquer are the ones owned by the lord of whoever I'm assaulting, as those will have no levies in them.

I think they also nerfed retinue sizes as well, as it took me 4 emperors worth of expansion before I could even get a 10000 size retinue army. So combined with the Varangian Guard, I finally have about enough of a retinue army to assault regular castles. In the past I could have gotten that army immediately after becoming an Emperor, and I wouldn't have needed the Varangian Guard to boost the numbers.

mainiac

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #5182 on: March 29, 2014, 09:26:14 pm »

It's hell of a lot more difficult than I expected. I'm not sure if this is a recent change but even at 900AD, all the Muslim castles have over 1500 men defending them.

That's a change from way back.  Before vassal levies were raised from baronies and the raised troops weren't available to defend.  Now vassal baronies don't have their levies affected by lieges raising them, the troops are just summoned from the ether.  This means that unless the vassal is in a war of their own, the full levy is always defending the castle.

If you are going for roman border then you need to stop going for duchies and start going for kingdoms.  As an emperor you can land a kingdom claimant and then invade to press the claim, giving you a king vassal.  The resulting war isn't barely any harder (AI wont give up until 100%) and you only have to fight once.  There should probably be a lot of claimants floating around so you could do this is a few decades with that power base you have there.

The resulting vassal will probably be pretty ornery though so try to get the kingdom in good hands.  I recommend marrying them to a woman of your dynasty matrilineally before you give them land so when they die the holder is in your dynasty but not related closely enough to have a claim.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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umiman

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #5183 on: March 30, 2014, 01:28:46 am »

I played back when the Sons of Abraham just came out and the levy thing wasn't like that then. After all, I made this in Ironman:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I know it wasn't like that back then or else that wouldn't even have been possible. In fact, one of my strategies back then for dealing with rebels was to wait with my armies just outside their borders. Let them raise all their troops and march them out, and then I'd just waltz up and win instantly. Can't do that now.

----

I do like this version better though. It takes a lot longer and I can't cheese it as easily. It definitely helps the AI more than it helps me though, as I rarely raise my vassal levies to begin with, and they're always raised from secure locations.

They also seem to have done something to the research times as it's taking significantly longer for non-prioritized research to develop. I know this for a fact as in my other games, I would have gone through at least half the research tree by the point where I am now. Instead I'm still using Castle Towns II when it should be IV.

All in all it feels like they made the game "longer". It's actually pretty extreme. In this Rome game I started as an Emperor and at 1000AD I barely have 17% of the score I have with the game I started as a freaking crippled, maimed duke surrounded by other Christians with the only CB being those created by councillors.

It's a bunch of interesting changes. Makes it fresh. I have to learn to adapt to the new systems.

Owlbread

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #5184 on: March 30, 2014, 12:27:56 pm »

Spoiler: -snip- (click to show/hide)

Problem solved, the Coptic Pope is now my vassal. All is well.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 01:25:08 pm by Owlbread »
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EuchreJack

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #5185 on: March 30, 2014, 03:30:34 pm »

They also seem to have done something to the research times as it's taking significantly longer for non-prioritized research to develop. I know this for a fact as in my other games, I would have gone through at least half the research tree by the point where I am now. Instead I'm still using Castle Towns II when it should be IV.

Well, something needed to be done to research times.  Importing a game from CKII to EU3 previously lead to a Europe 1000 years ahead of its time, lol.

Duuvian

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #5186 on: March 31, 2014, 02:52:05 am »

I started as the Count of Sacz in Poland in the Old Gods start (thanks to sale prices).

I took over the High Chiefdom of Lesser Poland (Slavic religion) from a child High Chief, largely thanks to marriage alliances with local powers. I expanded out to a few more counties by taking independant counties when they are ruled by children and have no allies, taking enough to form the Duchy of Grodno if I so desired (which I did not as I would lose it after succession if I did) as well as a few more counties to the East of that Duchy.

Eventually the realm was about 2/3 Slavic religion and 1/3 Romuva. It was about half Russian and half Polish.

I was accumulating wealth to upgrade my second county a bit before handing it to a loyal relative. My 26 martial skill brother and Marshall, Nebraska, decides to ask for his own holding. I tell him he is not ready, because I'M not ready yet. He becomes an adventurer and starts recruiting, paying free men and mercenaries to fight under his banner to seize my land. Shortly afterwards I receive notification that a distant unimportant relative of mine from a branch of the dynasty that had became Norse/Norse and which ruled a county in Scandinavia was also forming an adventuring host to press his claim on my land.

I then give away my second county to my esteemed uncle, Platypus, after spending the rest of my gold on what upgrades I can afford as I figure I don't need a third threat and that having more than one county and a large dynasty full of claimants is a recipe for one. I notice the adventurer icon at the top still hovers menacingly over everything I've worked for in the game. Foolishly, I disregard this assuming that giving away my second county would neuter their claim, and raid the Bulgarian Christians on my Southern border. Unbeknownst to me, the Bulgarian Queen had seemingly done something intelligent and placed her retinue just out of sight of my borders, though I think it was more likely they were responding to a previous raid and had been in that County when my forces retreated and thus were in a position to respond. This retinue(s) immediately engaged my raiders while they were pillaging. My personal levy was victorious, but immediately my distant Norse relative declares war at the head of a host that outnumbers all my personal and realm levies. He marches South from Scandinavia, and besieges a few non-capital provinces. I don't attempt to call my allies yet, but while waiting for the host to weaken itself through the siege process so I can attack them with my forces my traitorous brother Nebraska declares adventurer war on me and appears in my capital with even more troops than the other host.

I sit and watch them continue sieging bordering counties, powerfully hoping that they decide to attack each other. Unfortunately they march in opposite directions, apparently content to split the realm between them.

I call in all my allies, and none are willing to assist as they like my brother Nebraska too much.

Then, a Christian miracle happens. The miracle is that someone had an Ecumenical Patriarch as their Learning advisor, and decided AT THAT VERY MOMENT in which I was about to lose the game, to send this Patriarch to convert me to Orthodox Christianity. I took this Patriarch prisoner and ransomed him off for the 350 miracle gold, which quickly became mercenary gold. I hired the Pecheneg Band despite them now costing 150+rent because they have horse archers, have saved me many times in previous games and are my favorite mercenary group. They absconded from the province they appeared in, and merged with what pitiful forces remained from my levies that I had kept alive after a few battles to weaken the hosts. This combined force was enough to barely defeat the Norse relative's host, which caused him surrender. He was quickly banished as a pauper from the realm back to the cold North, his 380ish gold savings seized. I used his gold to hire the other cheap mercenary unit that has horse archers, and combined that with my previous army of re-raised realm levies and mercenaries. These proved sufficient to eliminate Nebraska's Host. Nebraska somehow had accumulated close to 800 gold which became mine after I banished him to the court of a dynasty member who also happened to be Christian.

I invited him back to my court a while later because as a Slavic pantheon worshiper he didn't like being in a Christian court, and I made him my Marshall again. Before he passed away he liked me at a score of 100; I can't recall if my character returned the affection. I built a University with the gold I seized during his banishment and I imagine it was named Nebraska University. (I had named all the Dynasty members I had the option to name after US states during that particular ruler's life. Other rulers named children after various foods, Australian animals, insects and other crawly creatures, and various modern occupations.)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 04:27:48 am by Duuvian »
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Dutchling

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #5187 on: March 31, 2014, 03:02:43 am »

(I had named all the Dynasty members I had the option to name after US states during that particular ruler's life. Other rulers named children after various foods, Australian animals, insects and other crawly creatures, and various modern occupations.)
Nebraska was gibberish enough for me to consider it an actual Polish name until you edited that in :P
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HopFlash

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #5188 on: March 31, 2014, 03:35:14 am »

I started as the Count of Sacz in Poland ...

Very nice story...and that is why nobody should give up too early in any game (or life). There could be a chance to turn the table around.
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Duuvian

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #5189 on: March 31, 2014, 03:56:13 am »

After that fortuitous victory, a demeaning defeat was in order.

Catholic Ruthenia (a Kingdom level title) declared a Holy War against poor little Slavic Lesser Poland (a Duchy level title, one level below Kingdom).

Fortunately most of my neighbors to the West were still of the Slavic faith and joined my war. To the South was Orthodox Bulgaria, which was the local superpower. Somehow the various Kingdoms in Russia had become Catholic in this alternate timeline. The two County King of Poland had at some point become a Catholic; however he was also a member of my dynasty thanks to Poland at one point having an unmarried Queen willing to marry one of my relatives. This means he would not become involved in the war due to conflicting loyalties. This is unfortunate because it left me with only a few Duchy level allies to combat Ruthenia and other Catholic Russian forces.

I don't recall troop numbers, but with Slavic allies joining in the defense of the Slavic faith I was comfortable with my chances of victory. Even slightly distant Pruthenia (baltic coast Western Slavs) decided to join my war, with a sizable force, after my first battle.

I massed my army in my territory north of Ruthenia's siege, and waited until they attacked my army. The Slavic faith gives a substantial defensive bonus when on your own land, and the Polish special building gives light cavalry. Light cavalry isn't the greatest, but the building is called Hussar Training Ground or something along those lines and also gives +15% to Light cavalry's defense values which I assume is pretty nice in combination with defensive terrain and the Slavic bonus. I also had a Hussar retinue of 500 light cavalry at that point as well.

The result of the Ruthenian's attack seemed likely to be quite acceptable at first. Unfortunately before the battle had completed another few thousand Catholic troops joined the battle on the enemy side, skewing the numbers to a little better than 2:3. I had about 6000 allied Slavic troops to about 9000 Catholics.

Despite this, the Catholics suffered extremely heavy losses and I now had my Pruthenian allies' army untouched in Pruthenia. If I could consolidate our forces we would outnumber the Ruthenians. A Slavic Count joined the war on my side, and I retreated my forces in that direction in the hope the Pruthenians would start a march in my general direction. The Ruthenian Catholics settled in for a siege.

After a realm levy re-raise and merging of units, I went to meetup with the oddly stationary Count's army. The Count's army did not move until I was in the next County over after I marched several counties to his border, which I'm pretty sure is a bug as they should probably want to merge with my army rather than sit uselessly. I noted I had roughly the same number of troops as the Catholic army once the Count finally joined his forces to my army. I decided to assault the Catholic siege army in the hope of damaging it enough to slow it's siege, as the warscore was worryingly high after my initial loss.

To my disappointment, my army failed to perform nearly as well as it had on defense and it took heavy losses without weakening the Catholic army substantially enough. My army was reduced to a size that would be suicide to attack the Catholics again with. The warscore was raised even higher against me.

I had been keeping an eye on the Pruthenians while this all happened. Instead of marching to link their army to mine at any point where it would have been a good idea, they instead sat in place in Pruthenia long after their army morale was at 100%. They continued to sit there up until my army was engaged in it's ill fated assault on the Catholic siege camp. If they had been a part of the assault, I'm fairly certain the battle would have turned out differently.

However, as soon as my army was fighting, they began to march. Unfortunately by the time they reached the county bordering the one the Catholics were besieging, my army of my own forces and Slavic allies was effectively destroyed and it plus the Pruthenians were outnumbered by the Catholics. The Catholics caught the Pruthenian army and wrecked it, pushing the warscore to 100%.

I'm not sure if the Catholics even completed a siege of any of my holdings, and now I've lost a little under half my realm to a mid level power I can't beat without the rest of the Slavic world because of what I can only assume is an annoying bug wherein allies are missing some kind of trigger to merge with non-adjacent allies. I assume there is a trigger functioning that sends them marching when an allied army starts fighting, and another trigger that sends them to march and link to an allied army in an adjacent County.

I will pass on this word of advice; if you rely on allies in your wars make sure you march one of your armies to their borders. After you do that, they will march to your army and link themselves to it. Otherwise their armies will sit in whatever County they merge their units in until one of your armies is under attack, at which point they march and will be too late unless they are quite close.


I started as the Count of Sacz in Poland ...

Very nice story...and that is why nobody should give up too early in any game (or life). There could be a chance to turn the table around.

Thank you for the kind words, and I agree that one should never stop striving. I will keep this in mind while continuing this game.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 05:02:36 am by Duuvian »
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Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
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