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Author Topic: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Game over!  (Read 71113 times)

Lonewolf I

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #120 on: August 02, 2010, 07:56:09 pm »

Imploring Org to give explanations for his actions and work more closely with the town is simply a loosely veiled request that he reveal his strategy.  Given his declaration that revealing his strategy would reveal his role, which you were explicitly responding to, this equates to your asking him to reveal his role.

You're rolefishing.

Only scum would be rolefishing D1, since the secrecy of their roles is one of the few advantages town has.

You are either scum or you don't quite grasp role strategy in mafia, in which case being lynched will teach you not to rolefish without a solid reason next time.
So, Lonewolf I, let's go over this once more.

Asking someone to explain their actions means asking them to reveal their strategy.
If you say revealing your strategy reveals your role, obviously it's true.
Therefore, asking someone to explain themselves is rolefishing.
My entire attack was built on your seeming belief in this premise.  Whether or not I believed it was irrelevant.

That's all the evidence I need, but circumstantially, this was also in defense of Org, and to be blunt it makes more sense that you were defending your scumbuddy than that you actually think any of that's true. You've also got a quaint excuse for when I flip town- oh look! Cute lil noob IronyOwl got himself lynched. He's got nobody to blame but himself, certainly not poor honest Lonewolf.
Nowhere was I defending Org.  I did use his statements against you, but only because they were clearly nonsense yet you were latching onto them as proof of his scumminess, which looked like an effort by scum to fabricate more proof.  I also chose to move forward with it on the off-chance that you really were rolefishing, and just trying to hide it behind semantics.  I didn't see anyone acting particularly scummy, so I had no reason to stop pushing you when you wouldn't cut the nonsense.

Also circumstantially, Pandarsenic was the other one voting for you, and he's disappeared now. I honestly wasn't too keen on my chances of making it through the night, what with the grace and subtlety with which you defended Org, but in retrospect it might have made more sense to knock off the less verbose, visible one attacking you. Or convert him, if Cult works in some sort of recruit fashion.
That reminds me. 

Mr. Person - You seemed mighty eager to defend me yesterday.  I commented on it with a semi-humorous accusation of buddying, but didn't press the issue.  However, seeing your passive opening today has made me reconsider.  Did you kill Pandarsenic to try and frame me?
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Eduren

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #121 on: August 02, 2010, 08:15:49 pm »

Imploring Org to give explanations for his actions and work more closely with the town is simply a loosely veiled request that he reveal his strategy.  Given his declaration that revealing his strategy would reveal his role, which you were explicitly responding to, this equates to your asking him to reveal his role.

You're rolefishing.

Only scum would be rolefishing D1, since the secrecy of their roles is one of the few advantages town has.

You are either scum or you don't quite grasp role strategy in mafia, in which case being lynched will teach you not to rolefish without a solid reason next time.
So, Lonewolf I, let's go over this once more.

Asking someone to explain their actions means asking them to reveal their strategy.
If you say revealing your strategy reveals your role, obviously it's true.
Therefore, asking someone to explain themselves is rolefishing.
My entire attack was built on your seeming belief in this premise.  Whether or not I believed it was irrelevant.

That's all the evidence I need, but circumstantially, this was also in defense of Org, and to be blunt it makes more sense that you were defending your scumbuddy than that you actually think any of that's true. You've also got a quaint excuse for when I flip town- oh look! Cute lil noob IronyOwl got himself lynched. He's got nobody to blame but himself, certainly not poor honest Lonewolf.
Nowhere was I defending Org.  I did use his statements against you, but only because they were clearly nonsense yet you were latching onto them as proof of his scumminess, which looked like an effort by scum to fabricate more proof.  I also chose to move forward with it on the off-chance that you really were rolefishing, and just trying to hide it behind semantics.  I didn't see anyone acting particularly scummy, so I had no reason to stop pushing you when you wouldn't cut the nonsense.

Also circumstantially, Pandarsenic was the other one voting for you, and he's disappeared now. I honestly wasn't too keen on my chances of making it through the night, what with the grace and subtlety with which you defended Org, but in retrospect it might have made more sense to knock off the less verbose, visible one attacking you. Or convert him, if Cult works in some sort of recruit fashion.
That reminds me. 

Mr. Person - You seemed mighty eager to defend me yesterday.  I commented on it with a semi-humorous accusation of buddying, but didn't press the issue.  However, seeing your passive opening today has made me reconsider.  Did you kill Pandarsenic to try and frame me?
Why are you voting Mr.Person?

If IronyOwl is clearly scum then why have you backed off?
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Lonewolf I

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #122 on: August 02, 2010, 08:27:57 pm »

I didn't say he's clearly scummy...
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Eduren

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 1
« Reply #123 on: August 02, 2010, 08:30:51 pm »

You are either scum or you don't quite grasp role strategy in mafia, in which case being lynched will teach you not to rolefish without a solid reason next time.
If this no longer applies, then please, tell me what has changed.
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IronyOwl

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #124 on: August 02, 2010, 09:39:20 pm »

Asking someone to explain their actions means asking them to reveal their strategy.
If you say revealing your strategy reveals your role, obviously it's true.
Therefore, asking someone to explain themselves is rolefishing.
My entire attack was built on your seeming belief in this premise.  Whether or not I believed it was irrelevant.
This confused me for a second.

No.(This is to me saying my role, no I am not. How did you get that? I meant that if I told him my strategy, it is based on my role.)

If I have a role, is it good to say it and then have the scum know?
No.

This isn't a valid excuse because it's a blanket excuse to not ever explain what you're doing. Why are you bandwagoning town? Shhhh, can't reveal my role. Why are you flagrantly lying? STOP ROLEFISHING SCUM. Why do you keep nightkilling confirmed townies? It's a secret, if I told you scum would gain an advantage.

Even if you have a powerful role, trying to hide from everyone else and do everything yourself doesn't work, Org. If you won't explain why you're doing anything, we'll have no choice but to assume you're up to no good and lynch you. Scum are working together by default, Org. If town can't do the same, they're going to lose.
Behind all your talk of strategy and working together, IronyOwl, is the most blatant case of rolefishing I've seen thus far.  Explain yourself.
Imploring Org to give explanations for his actions and work more closely with the town is simply a loosely veiled request that he reveal his strategy.  Given his declaration that revealing his strategy would reveal his role, which you were explicitly responding to, this equates to your asking him to reveal his role.

You're rolefishing.
Org said that, so I said that, so you said that, so I dared you to explain it, so you said that. At best, you're trying to use circular logic - IronyOwl is scum because he was rolefishing Org, which you know because he asked Org to explain himself, which scum would only do if he thought he could get his role out of it, which is how you know IronyOwl is scum. At worst, this is taking the hold your ground plan to sad new depths, by fairly literally trying to claim I said what you said instead of you.



That's all the evidence I need, but circumstantially, this was also in defense of Org, and to be blunt it makes more sense that you were defending your scumbuddy than that you actually think any of that's true. You've also got a quaint excuse for when I flip town- oh look! Cute lil noob IronyOwl got himself lynched. He's got nobody to blame but himself, certainly not poor honest Lonewolf.
Nowhere was I defending Org.  I did use his statements against you, but only because they were clearly nonsense yet you were latching onto them as proof of his scumminess, which looked like an effort by scum to fabricate more proof.  I also chose to move forward with it on the off-chance that you really were rolefishing, and just trying to hide it behind semantics.  I didn't see anyone acting particularly scummy, so I had no reason to stop pushing you when you wouldn't cut the nonsense.
You were responding to my "attack" of him, which is what I believe is called a chainsaw defense. I also dare you to find another person who feels my elaborate explanation of why he had to act more townish was a desperate effort to call him scummy. In fact, I'd wager more people are suspicious of my helpful manner towards him than any relentless assault of him.

Trying to say you were pushing on the chance that I was rolefishing is a good answer, but it's a bit late for that. Especially since I don't know what "nonsense" you're talking about.


Mr. Person - You seemed mighty eager to defend me yesterday.  I commented on it with a semi-humorous accusation of buddying, but didn't press the issue.  However, seeing your passive opening today has made me reconsider.  Did you kill Pandarsenic to try and frame me?
So when you do it, it's "nowhere did I defend Org" and when Mr.Person does it it's "mighty eager to defend me"? They both seemed like attacks on the attacker, wherein lies the difference?
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Toaster

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #125 on: August 02, 2010, 11:29:59 pm »

Eduren:  Good to see you posting, but you didn't respond to me.  What were your suspicions D1, and what did N1 do to change them?

That reminds me. 

Mr. Person - You seemed mighty eager to defend me yesterday.  I commented on it with a semi-humorous accusation of buddying, but didn't press the issue.  However, seeing your passive opening today has made me reconsider.  Did you kill Pandarsenic to try and frame me?

This is Lonewolf attempting to direct attention away from himself.
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Jokerman-EXE

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #126 on: August 02, 2010, 11:30:43 pm »

Eduren, there are questions and accusations against you. Why are you ignoring them? It's clear you've been closely reading the thread, from your last posts.

PFP
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Eduren

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #127 on: August 02, 2010, 11:50:42 pm »

Eduren:  Good to see you posting, but you didn't respond to me.  What were your suspicions D1, and what did N1 do to change them?
Oh, forgot you asked a question.

I actually suspected Janus Day1 because of a gut feeling. That however has been set aside because of the Org lynch.

Eduren, there are questions and accusations against you. Why are you ignoring them? It's clear you've been closely reading the thread, from your last posts.
Accusations? There was one question asked by Toaster and that was it. The only accusations against me were for lurking which, you'll notice, I am addressing by posting.


In case it wasn't clear, I find Lonewolf's behavior very scummy. Of course he seems to have left right after dismissing my question, so I will wait for him.
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JanusTwoface

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #128 on: August 03, 2010, 12:24:12 am »

Apologies for lack of content, I had an unexpected long weekend sans Internet. I'll be back with my suspicions and answers to any queries directed my way tomorrow (later today?), probably in the afternoon.
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Mr.Person

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #129 on: August 03, 2010, 02:48:40 am »

@ToonyMan: What about all the people who didn't vote for Org at all?
I'm guessing it's because they didn't think he was scum.

Ok... so why is IronyOwl more suspiscious than anybody else?
I thought I said this, he was the deciding vote for yesterday.

Why are you defending him?

Fine, continue pissing me off. How does being the deciding vote make IronyOwl more likely scum than the players who didn't vote Org at all?

OH NOES, TOASTER AND IRONYOWL ARE CHAINSAW DEFENDING ME! THEY MUST BE SCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM!!!!1!!1! Nevermind the fact they're 100% right that Lonewolf is now talking out his ass trying to avoid getting lynched. I just don't see how a townie could drop an attack for no reason to go attack another player. Yet here you are not even commenting on your current opinion of Ironyowl.

Ok, Lonewolf. What happened to your suspicion of IronyOwl yesterday? What's changed?

@Jokerman: You've moved several rungs up my ladder of scumminess with that comment. What accusations? What questions? Sounds to me like you were talking out your ass trying get some undue suspicion on Eduren.
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ToonyMan

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #130 on: August 03, 2010, 02:55:17 am »

Because he was the one to make the decision, why can't you understand this?
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Mr.Person

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #131 on: August 03, 2010, 03:12:18 am »

Because he was the one to make the decision, why can't you understand this?

His decision was to lynch Org! So you're saying that IronyOwl is scum because he decided to lynch scum? Note that IronyOwl made a big deal of having to be convinced to lynch the scum, by the way. Are you saying that deciding to lynch scum is scummier than deciding to do nothing so as to get a no lynch? Or are you just trying to say that deciding to lynch scum is scummy?

Look, I'm not understanding you. You have to explain this with more talking because you're currently just repeating "I think IronyOwl was scummy for lynching Org" over and over without explaining why you think that. I'm going to continue bugging your ass until you tell me what made IronyOwl's decision to lynch Org scummy.
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Hmm...I've never been a big fan of CCGs - I mean, I did and still do collect Pokemon cards, but I never got heavily into the battling and trading thing.

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ToonyMan

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #132 on: August 03, 2010, 03:14:50 am »

IronyOwl, you seemed incredibly hesitant to lynched Org yesterday right before lynch date (I was asleep IRL at the time).  Is this because you knew he was scum and didn't want to bus your partner until you caved in?
It was the first post I made today Mr.Person.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #133 on: August 03, 2010, 11:53:41 am »

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
Eduren: Jokerman-EXE
IronyOwl: ToonyMan
Lonewolf I: Eduren, IronyOwl, Mr.Person, Toaster
Mr.Person: Lonewolf I



Day 2 ends ~5pm Pacific Thursday
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JanusTwoface

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #134 on: August 03, 2010, 01:55:32 pm »

That doesn't really answer the question. You answered why you aren't attacking more players, not why you feel the need to point out all the scummy stuff other players are doing but not the need to actually follow up with an attack on them.

I feel the need to point out anything that could be scummy because another player may pick up on it and continue the attack even if I don't.  I'll admit that I probably get over-analyze things, but that's how I play.

Lonewolf I, you've already got a decent amount to answer for, but I have one more question to add.

Just before the lynch yesterday, starting at 6:43 pm (all times will be my time zone) IronyOwl and myself were talking about the lynch with basically no-one else talking.  It's annoying on all counts, but particularly so for you.  You posted in Beginner's Mafia at 6:40 pm and Vote Mafia 7 at 7:30 pm (the day ended at 7:15 pm).

So you were almost guaranteed online and could possibly have had a deciding impact on the vote.  Why didn't you post?

Solifuge, where in the world are you?  You've posted *58* times on the forums since you're last post in this game on *JULY 27th*.  Not cool.
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