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Author Topic: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?  (Read 7451 times)

Footkerchief

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Re: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?
« Reply #120 on: May 25, 2010, 12:52:52 pm »

Or is this theory just ignorant and misogynistic? 

Pretty much.  Your argument is premised on anecdotes about women not being "deep."  Even if it could be statistically determined that women are less likely to discuss philosophical/intellectual topics, the more likely explanation is that they have other things to talk about, unlike people who think being a self-declared nerd/geek is enough to make them interesting.
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Nikov

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Re: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?
« Reply #121 on: May 25, 2010, 01:08:01 pm »

My wife is pretty deep. She also kicks my ass in Soul Calibur IV.
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Sir Pseudonymous

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Re: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?
« Reply #122 on: May 25, 2010, 01:14:03 pm »

There's a subnormality about that, where there are four people in the guy's brain arguing about what to do when a girl says hi to the guy.
This one.

First, I'd really like you to expand your search for pro-life beliefs beyond the Catholic church and staunch Southern Baptists. Not every pro-life advocate wants everyone who has sex outside of the missionary position in wedlock to catch STDs and get pregnant--and a great many in those churches take a more liberal approach.
I've never heard of one, but it's possible the insane rhetoric of the mainstream pro-lifers has managed to sway someone who's lacks the prevailing belief that sex should be punished.

Quote
Second, you honestly believe that one should commit murder to stop legalized abortions if one thinks that they're murder? If this was the system of morality that pro-life people had, then there would be a lot more murders. However, the morality is generally "If it harms another, it is wrong." Furthermore, they say "I will not be violent save when forced to. As long as a peaceful, democratic solution exists, then it should be taken." Since most countries with legal abortion are democratic, the people will attempt to sway political beliefs rather than shoot doctors, and that is generally the more effective strategy. I'm not sure how your "complicit" argument is supposed to hold--they are trying to actively persuade people that this is wrong, and turn away possible abortions. They're doing everything that they can save for actually killing someone, which would work against them in the long run. If that's being complicit, then I'm not sure what you want save doctor-killing sprees.
You know damn well that's not what I'm saying. The premise is:

a) They claim to believe abortion is murder.
b) If abortion is murder, then a state that allows it is permitting mass murder.
c) Therefore, if they genuinely believe that abortion is murder, then they must also believe that mass murder is occuring.
d) Their movement is failing on legal grounds.
e) They do not commit themselves to, and in fact condemn violent recourse in light of their political failures.

Therefore, they either do not believe abortion is murder, or they are complicit in what to them must be monumental genocide. Given the rarity and extreme unpopularity of violent acts, it can be gathered that they do not, in fact, believe abortion is murder. Given the other political battles they fight, it can also be gathered that the prevailing theme of their beliefs is that sex should be punished. Ergo, their battles are more about fucking people over than the "sanctity of life" or some bullshit like that.
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?
« Reply #123 on: May 25, 2010, 01:30:56 pm »

Oh, I do hope this turns into an abortion debate!  -_-
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Footkerchief

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Re: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?
« Reply #124 on: May 25, 2010, 01:44:50 pm »

Yeah, thanks you two.
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Vector

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Re: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?
« Reply #125 on: May 25, 2010, 02:45:11 pm »

So I'm a pretty normal guy, have a serious girlfriend, not haunted by any of the doubts or fears a lot of you are, I just kind of do what I want.  I'm not all that into physics or computers or ninjas or kendo or any of that stuff.

Normal guy with a serious girlfriend--not exactly the nerdy type, follows his own volition, no doubts and fears.

Got it.  You're a brave guy with a status symbol, and you need us to know that for some reason.


That said, I've noticed an alarming trend where "smart" guys - geeks and nerds in particular - have notoriously bad luck with girls.  A lot of them are super conscious of morality, strive to be peaceful and respectful, deeply philosophical, etc - and that doesn't get them anywhere with chicks.

A lot of the nerds I've met think they're doing that, yeah, and then they ignore the girls/guys in favor of their computers or say shit like "Oh!  You're having a problem.  What do you want me to do about it?"  Most nerds I've met also have this trouble with arrogance, where they'll say things like "I am conscious of morality, peaceful, respectful, and deeply philosophical"--and then can't take any criticism of their moral and philosophical choices or even get so far as saying they're sorry.

In other words, most of the nerds I've met have this leeetle problem with being emotionally disconnected and uncaring.  Sure, they look great on paper, but when it comes down to it they're more intent on protecting themselves than being emotionally engaged.

As a female nerd, I speak for the female nerds I've met as well (and myself).  We all have this problem.  Certainly, there are some that are more well-adjusted than others, and I commend them--but the nerd stereotype isn't all it's cracked up to be.


Meanwhile, most of the smart chicks I've met are just like regular and dumb women except they get better grades and maybe are more likely to forgo a higher salary to work at a nonprofit.

If you're still in college or live near one, go sit in on a graduate-level math course.  One of the intro courses, because you're more likely to find a girl or two in there (some of the later courses will have only three students or so, and as such you're less likely to find a woman).  Talk to her and see if she comes off like the "regular and dumb" women.

Or, more precisely--your experiment has bias.  You're equating "male nerd" as a subset of "smart male" and "smart female" as a group in and of itself.  There's a reasonable likelihood that you've never spoken to a female nerd, given that they can be hard to find.

Female nerds are just as into philosophy, respect, peacefulness, and morality as their male counterparts.  Well, not me.  You can't say I'm all that peaceful or respectful--I like hitting things with sticks way too much, and am not all that fond of idiots--but then, you can't say that of all male nerds, either.  I used to know a nerdy guy whose professed religion was 'anti-idiot,' and he was serious about it.  The guy was also a devout Buddhist, so I guess that covers your philosophy, peacefulness, and morality bases fairly well.


Do you think it's safe to say that males are simply deeper, more philosophical, and more intelligent than women?  Are the nerds and geeks evolving past the rest of us without enough females to keep up with them?

Once again, you evoke this fallacy: you state that males are deeper, more philosophical, and more intelligent than women, while your statement previously spoke about nerds who can't get women.  So, your 'representative minority' of nerds is being used to elevate males in general.

Furthermore, you seem to have this odd opinion that women are becoming antiquated thanks to some subset of the human race theoretically becoming smarter and less warlike.  Sorry to burst your bubble, doodabuddy, but humans are organisms.  Organisms make babies.  If you want more babies, then you'd better have a human woman to screw.  It's the way it works, unfortunately, and no amount of male supremacist wankery is going to make that fact go away: we're the ones with the wombs.  Until you replace us with cloning vats, I must gently suggest that you stop lording your "gifts" over we pathetic and under-endowed creatures.  That kind of attitude isn't exactly conducive to getting dates.

I'll also state that, since you're inflating your entire half of the human race based on a mere handful of unusual specimens and asking us if it's "safe" to assume that inflation, you seem rather less self-confident in your own worth than your initial statements might assume.  If you want to put yourself on a pedestal, do it elsewhere.  Don't hijack a thread about sexual preference for that purpose.


Or is this theory just ignorant and misogynistic?

You don't want to see my original response.  Your theory is extremely misogynistic, not to mention logically flawed and based largely on your own personal experience.  Go spend more time with women and see if they're actually as dumb as you seem to think they are.




To be on-topic: I'm part of the virgins waiting for love crowd, as well.  As far as why one wouldn't want to go have casual sex: well, I'd rather not deal with the oxytocin floods and potential pregnancy/STDs, myself.  I'm only willing to get myself that fucked over emotionally and physically for someone I really care about.

Dunno if it's "by choice" or not.  The opportunities haven't exactly presented themselves, though that may be because of other personal choices I've made.  *shrug*  I've never been whistled at/checked out and so on, either, so I'm guessing it may have something to do with the way I dress/act.
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Grakelin

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Re: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?
« Reply #126 on: May 25, 2010, 02:50:29 pm »

Or is this theory just ignorant and misogynistic?

Yes.

I get plenty of pootang (is that actually a slang word? I think it is), and it's usually from people who are attracted to my charm and intellect, and not because of whatever you think it is that women are attracted to. Not to brag about how charming and intellectual I am, or anything.

Most people, even men and women, are actually at around the same intelligence level, anyways. Or so I've been told by Sociology Ph. D students, I don't actually have a source. I'm willing to believe it, though.

If you think that women are stupid, you're not in a healthy, serious relationship, by the way. Unless you're gay, then there's a chance you might pull it off. But you'll never be in a healthy, serious relationship with a woman if you think her gender is vastly inferior to you.

Also, young, teenage nerds aren't actually all that philosophical. When I was in high school, being philosophical meant going to Chapters, finding a book in the philosophy section, and then living your life by using it in an extremely literal sense as a guide. Because being intellectual means reading a book by Nietzsche and acting like him all day long, amirite.

Speaking of faux-intellectualism (and also just to move out of the abortion conversation - can you guys move it to a new thread, please? It's a controversial, lock-likely issue that isn't actually the subject of this thread, and you risk ruining the established topic's conversation by getting this one into a flame war), last month I was talking about Soccer to some people I know, and they got all huffy about me not calling it Football. Now, if they were from outside of North America, this would make sense, but they're all from rural Ontario. And they think that Real Madrid is a tour company. Talk about pretentious.

Vector ninja'd me. It looks like you get your answer from FOUR individuals instead of just THREE!

EDIT: Not sure about your Math Girl theory, Vector. You seem fairly well-spoken, but most of the engineers and mathematicians in my university can't even pass our English Literary Proficiency Exam. And they're actually pretty slow. Oh God, a Math student here won a huge award, and his speech destroyed the entire day, it was so bad, oh god. I remember having a conversation with an engineering student (I think he's doing Combinatorix) about the religious class system in the Maritimes, and it was so painful the things he said. I think if Mfbrew went to a math class and started talking to girls, he'd still find them intellectually inferior.

I'm poking fun, of course. We have idiots all around.

...Though some of them are in advanced level math courses.

Mfbrew is clearly in high school, since he indicates that the smart girls he know "are just regular or dumb but just get good grades", a solid high school student statement. So he will never get a chance to meet an advanced math studentette while he is still working out his philosophical views on womenz.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 02:56:03 pm by Grakelin »
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Okay, so, today this girl I know-Lauren, just took a sudden dis-interest in talking to me. Is she just on her period or something?

Footkerchief

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Re: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?
« Reply #127 on: May 25, 2010, 03:08:17 pm »

That said, I've noticed an alarming trend where "smart" guys - geeks and nerds in particular - have notoriously bad luck with girls.  A lot of them are super conscious of morality, strive to be peaceful and respectful, deeply philosophical, etc - and that doesn't get them anywhere with chicks.

A lot of the nerds I've met think they're doing that, yeah, and then they [...] say shit like "Oh!  You're having a problem.  What do you want me to do about it?"

I don't think this part's unique to nerds.  Knowing when and how to express sympathy is a skill that many (most?) guys just don't learn, even if they're in the social mainstream.  I'm still getting a handle on it myself, although obviously I'm not that great an example of guys in the social mainstream.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 03:16:31 pm by Footkerchief »
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Cthulhu

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Re: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?
« Reply #128 on: May 25, 2010, 03:31:44 pm »

There's a subnormality about that, where there are four people in the guy's brain arguing about what to do when a girl says hi to the guy.
This one.


That's it indeed. 

Hint:  The nerdy guy and the girl in the bathrobe never get laid.
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Vector

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Re: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?
« Reply #129 on: May 25, 2010, 03:35:03 pm »

EDIT: Not sure about your Math Girl theory, Vector. You seem fairly well-spoken, but most of the engineers and mathematicians in my university can't even pass our English Literary Proficiency Exam. And they're actually pretty slow. Oh God, a Math student here won a huge award, and his speech destroyed the entire day, it was so bad, oh god. I remember having a conversation with an engineering student (I think he's doing Combinatorix) about the religious class system in the Maritimes, and it was so painful the things he said. I think if Mfbrew went to a math class and started talking to girls, he'd still find them intellectually inferior.

I'm poking fun, of course. We have idiots all around.

...Though some of them are in advanced level math courses.

Ah, that was mostly a statement of "Look!  Female nerds exist.  They may come off as total morons, yeah, but you can't deny that they're bonafide nerds."  I picked the math department because the women I know who have made it to the graduate level in pure mathematics are... different.  Don't know about other departments, or I would have directed him there--and there's a reason why I said graduate-level.  Undergrad math courses have plenty of female econ students, who tend to come off like the average female.

Mostly, I'm giving that example/route in hopes that he's actually basing this argument off of misinformation, rather than a bias he wishes to confirm.


I don't think this part's unique to nerds.  Knowing when and how to express sympathy is a skill that many (most?) guys just don't learn, even if they're in the social mainstream.  I'm still getting a handle on it myself, although obviously I'm not that great an example of guys in the social mainstream.

It may not be unique to nerds, but my goodness, nerds have it really bad >_>  The point was more that the nerd stereotype isn't made of gold and has significant drawbacks, than to focus on any one trait in particular.
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ed boy

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Re: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?
« Reply #130 on: May 25, 2010, 03:43:25 pm »

The social pressures on the different genders are different. The social experiences and thus the actions people take with others is influenced greatly by their past relationships, and what interactions people have had with others in their past. Social pressures on people make them tend towards certain relationships, and hence make them more or less emotionally and socially advanced in different areas.

As a male, the norm that I have observed is for relationships to be more of a "buddy" thing. You spend a lot of your lime larking about (and tend to become quite good at it resultantly), but certain deeper matters would not be discussed, and you would not know how to deal with some subjects in your relationships. I am rather fortunate in that I possess a great many deeper friends, and I recognize that while the larking about still occurs, there is the opportunity for much deeper matters to be discussed.

Although I could not say for certain, I estimate that social pressures on females are more inclined towards the deeper friends area, and less inclined towards the larking about area. If anybody female would confirm/deny, I would appreciate it.

Being a nerd would carry with it different social pressures, and hence the relationships of nerds would tend to other things than the norm, hence giving them an abnormal social approach to situations.
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Vector

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Re: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?
« Reply #131 on: May 25, 2010, 04:06:53 pm »

Although I could not say for certain, I estimate that social pressures on females are more inclined towards the deeper friends area, and less inclined towards the larking about area. If anybody female would confirm/deny, I would appreciate it.

Eh, I'd say that it's more a pressure towards "community-building."  If you're female, you'd better know how to cook something good for a potluck, manage a social situation, and take care of children.  I think that in general, males are urged to break things apart, whereas women are taught to hold them together.  Men build small, competitive units and protect their family group; women do that in a more under-the-table way, as well as simultaneously tying those family groups together.

So yeah, generally an emphasis more on deeper relationships and emotional support than larking about, though I'll note that the modern woman is expected to do both proficiently (as is the modern man, as far as I know).  As for me personally, I guess I don't really fall into either slot.  I can be sympathetic and often figure out what a person wants or needs, but I also have a tendency to not want to give it to them, and I love going on adventures  ::)  Ehhhh... that's more about my personal troubles and so on than anything else, since the nerds I hang out with tend to be kind of emotionally needy and non-supportive.


tl;dr: You're right.
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Tack

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Re: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?
« Reply #132 on: May 25, 2010, 05:57:41 pm »

I, too, have the problem of a person in a nerd group, but with a personality outside the nerd steriotype. I generally fix this by forcing life upon my friends, and so far it has worked great. They now can 'mingle' at a gigantic beer party, they don't have an aversion to the popular kids, and various people in the group have gotten laid. I won't say it's all because of me, but it's all because of my influence. I'm also modest. And humble, yeah.

Or is this theory just ignorant and misogynistic?
Yeeeeah, but I know where you're coming from, i'm just too aware of my own chauvanism to admit it. But whatever. I do find that on average, most of the guys I know are more interesting than the girls. But, I can't say that guys are smarter as a whole. They're just harder to work out, seeing as a long part of my life was spent on making understanding and reading girls into a fine art, instead of using that time learning normal social interaction. But fuck it, if I can D&M better than her best friend, I'm happy. It's just possible that I haven't met a girl that's enough of a challenge for me. Or, I haven't met a girl who can put up with my stubborn, reckless insanity. I don't exactly know how any of this post ties into whether or not you should lose your virginity or not, but whatever. I'll think of a more suitable post when others get it back on track.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 06:22:10 pm by Tack »
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sonerohi

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Re: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?
« Reply #133 on: May 25, 2010, 06:08:38 pm »

From what I've seen, 'nerd' guys compromise too much, and the 'jock's not enough. Relationships are give-and-take (I am very original I know thank you). The nerd guys seem so intent on making sure that the relationship survives and the girl is happy that they make the opposite happen by handing over all their self confidence, and the decision making to the girl. Their side is only give give give. The jock guys are so focused on themselves having fun and getting what they/their hormones want out of the relationship, that they are take take take. One must go to the center. To visualize: A teeter totter in the middle of LAVA LAKE DELUXE.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Am I Rely the Minority When it comes to sex?
« Reply #134 on: May 25, 2010, 06:21:00 pm »

You has to satisfy her physical and emotional needs.  If you only satisfy the first, you end up a quick lay, if you only satisfy the second, you end up friend-zoned.
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