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[Jokerman-EXE]

@Leafsnail:

I began fresh with a RV on Leafsnail, then genuinely attacked Ottofar yesterday, and then voted Forsaken because he was acting more scummy than Ottofar.

Today I began fresh with Leafsnail and worked from there with still Leafsnail and now you.

A reaction of some sort?  Every question you ask is going to get a reaction of some sort, you aren't going to get what you want if you go accept anything!  That just makes it sound like you just want to pad your way through the day oh I don't know active lurking.  You accused me of being passive by making a list and you make the exact same thing in the post above me!

For my attacks that lack "proof" which is preposterous in the first place, I don't have concrete proof!  Unless you know something that I don't know I attack people the way they act or behave.  I don't make up something which makes no sense or make up concrete proof by lying.

You going to stop being a hypocrite scum and stop your passivity and active lurking so far?

I don't see any active lurking from Lone Wolf... he's just been attacking you.  I don't see how going straight for one person and attacking them could possibly be seen as active lurking.  Tunneling, maybe... but you obviously can't make such an accusation.

Your last post seems to flip the hell out over a small point.

Casually giving support to Wolf, when he's perfectly capable of defending himself.

None of those are real attacks... especially not the one on me.

Attempting to further Wolf's point when I can't see much benefit for you to have gone out of your way.

Which, now that I think of it, is what I've been meaning to ask of you. I've not seen much original thought out of you this game. That's unusual for you. Care to explain?

@Lone Wolf: While I initially thought ToonyMan was scum (and he has exhibited a lot of scumlike behavior) I now believe that Leafsnail is scummier, as per my above analysis. Toony isn't subtle enough to be acting like scum as I first believed. Leafy, on the other hand, is a lot harder to read, and I think that he's taking advantage of your attack on Toony to try and get him lynched, bearing in mind that I'm still trying to find an argument that's solely his, not based on yours or that of another.

@Org:

Leafy and Wolf are buddying to the max.

Org is suspicious as fuck.

PFP, also high.

Why

Because Leaf is scum.

I'm just getting a bad vibe off of you. I don't like how you've been kind of lurky. You're starting to shake that, and WUBA is looking more like an Exty than you, but I've still got a close eye on you.

My psych has me on new meds, that's why I'm high. If I've been weird for a few days, it's because of that.

[Org]

Pretty sure I said that my lurkyness was due to some internet trouble that I couldnt do anything about.

[Jokerman-EXE]

...oh right.

My bad. Like I said, haven't been myself the last couple days.

[Lonewolf I]

Org, I did not believe you were scum when I placed my vote on you.  I wanted to know what you're thinking, and rather than giving up your suspect list or simply saying 'meh, newbie voted me. whatev', you decided to attack my ability to reason.  This doesn't seem like you, bad internets or not.  On the other hand, internets is an explanation, albeit weak.  Unvote.

Toaster, was Jim wrong?

[Leafsnail]

Casually giving support to Wolf, when he's perfectly capable of defending himself.

The attack was crap, and you should realise that.

Attempting to further Wolf's point when I can't see much benefit for you to have gone out of your way.

This is a ridiculous stretch.  What I said had nothing to do with Wolf... and if you don't see any benefit for me doing it, how is it a scumtell?

Which, now that I think of it, is what I've been meaning to ask of you. I've not seen much original thought out of you this game. That's unusual for you. Care to explain?

...This is a pretty abstract accusation.  And I disagree with it.  I was one of the first to call ToonyMan and Org scum; I was certainly the first to bring my arguments against them.  What do you actually mean by this?

Leafy, on the other hand, is a lot harder to read

Because Leaf is scum.

I'm hard to read, but you've got a full scumread on me.

Right.

Your logic isn't even internally consistent, and what's more, you're reaching.

I think that he's taking advantage of your attack on Toony to try and get him lynched, bearing in mind that I'm still trying to find an argument that's solely his, not based on yours or that of another.

You must be pretty high, because I was attacking ToonyMan before Wolf was even in the game.  In fact, I was the first person to seriously attack ToonyMan this game.

So I guess you're accusing me of trying to lynch the person I'm voting for.

I also like the way you address Wolf like he's town aligned when you said he was "Buddying to the max" in your previous post.

It seems that Jokerman is the fourth scum.  We can lynch him after ToonyMan.

[Jokerman-EXE]

Casually giving support to Wolf, when he's perfectly capable of defending himself.

The attack was crap, and you should realise that.

Be that as it may, you were jumping in where it wasn't needed.

Attempting to further Wolf's point when I can't see much benefit for you to have gone out of your way.

This is a ridiculous stretch.  What I said had nothing to do with Wolf... and if you don't see any benefit for me doing it, how is it a scumtell?

How is it a scumtell when someone is doing something and it isn't clear for what purpose? Maybe it has to do with the fact that scum do that all the time, because they can make plans via scumchat that the rest of us aren't privy to.

Which, now that I think of it, is what I've been meaning to ask of you. I've not seen much original thought out of you this game. That's unusual for you. Care to explain?

...This is a pretty abstract accusation.  And I disagree with it.  I was one of the first to call ToonyMan and Org scum; I was certainly the first to bring my arguments against them.  What do you actually mean by this?

Subtle deflection. I mean that while you might have made an accusation first, I've not seen much beyond that that hasn't been said by someone else, first. Usually, you're out in the front and making accusations with backings and all that. You seem almost passive by comparison this game.

Leafy, on the other hand, is a lot harder to read

Because Leaf is scum.

I'm hard to read, but you've got a full scumread on me.

Right.

Your logic isn't even internally consistent, and what's more, you're reaching.

You're harder to read. Doesn't mean I can't read scum on you. You're scrambling now.

I think that he's taking advantage of your attack on Toony to try and get him lynched, bearing in mind that I'm still trying to find an argument that's solely his, not based on yours or that of another.

You must be pretty high, because I was attacking ToonyMan before Wolf was even in the game.  In fact, I was the first person to seriously attack ToonyMan this game.

So I guess you're accusing me of trying to lynch the person I'm voting for.

I also like the way you address Wolf like he's town aligned when you said he was "Buddying to the max" in your previous post.

It seems that Jokerman is the fourth scum.  We can lynch him after ToonyMan.

I'm not addressing Wolf in any way that I'm not addressing every other player. Unlike you, when I make a move I make an effort to be transparent with my reasoning, so that I don't seem like scum.

The way you are.

I want to see you hang, Leafsnail. Unvote whomever, vote Leafsnail.

[ToonyMan]

There's only 3 dopps.

[Leafsnail]

Be that as it may, you were jumping in where it wasn't needed.

Exposing scum is always needed.

How is it a scumtell when someone is doing something and it isn't clear for what purpose? Maybe it has to do with the fact that scum do that all the time, because they can make plans via scumchat that the rest of us aren't privy to.

You're calling me scum because you don't understand what I'm doing?  Great.

Subtle deflection. I mean that while you might have made an accusation first, I've not seen much beyond that that hasn't been said by someone else, first. Usually, you're out in the front and making accusations with backings and all that. You seem almost passive by comparison this game.

If your definition of "deflection" is "brought up points that completely and utterly refute your case" then yes, it was deflection.

Look at the way I attacked ToonyMan first and pushed his lynch.  Look at the way I was the first to attack Org and try and beat the curse of him being unreadable.  I'm certainly not being passive this game.

You're harder to read. Doesn't mean I can't read scum on you. You're scrambling now.

It's hard to be scrambling when noone has brought a valid point against you.

And why say I'm hard to read if you have a full scumread on me?  Again, I don't get it.

I'm not addressing Wolf in any way that I'm not addressing every other player.

USO DA

You fecking addressed him.  With an @ symbol before his bloody name.

@Lone Wolf: While I initially thought ToonyMan was scum (and he has  exhibited a lot of scumlike behavior) I now believe that Leafsnail is scummier, as per my above analysis. Toony isn't subtle enough to be acting like scum as I first believed. Leafy, on the other hand, is a lot harder to read, and I think that he's taking advantage of your attack on Toony to try and get him lynched, bearing in mind that I'm still trying to find an argument that's solely his, not based on yours or that of another.

Unlike you, when I make a move I make an effort to be transparent with my reasoning, so that I don't seem like scum.

Unlike you, when I make a move I try to find scum without worrying about self image.  Comes with the alignment.

So yeah, if retards lynch me today, Jokerman, Org and ToonyMan are scum.

There's only 3 dopps.

And an exterminator.

[Jokerman-EXE]

You weren't exposing scum. You were putting your input into someone else's conversation.

I'm not calling you scum because I don't understand what you're doing. I'm saying taking an action and then refusing to explain why, when it made no sense to anyone, is scummy.

I'll grant that you attacked Toony first. I apologize for that, I mixed up my games.

I said that you were harder to read, not that I hadn't read you. Just because it was harder doesn't mean I didn't do it.

I ADDRESSED YOU IN THE EXACT SAME MANNER IN THE SAME POST, DUDE.

You're seriously just not even really trying anymore. This is insane. I can't believe that no one is seeing this. Pandar and Leafsnail are two of the remaining scum. It's so fucking obvious.

[JanusTwoface]

Pandarsenic

What I was answering was pretty clear if you scroll up like 3 posts. If you can't find it you don't deserve for me to show it to you.

Did you really just say that?  How many times in how many games have you come in and asked something to be explained to you because you were too lazy to do it yourself?

And then after that you ask a decent question (albeit short) of Lonewolf I and quote the mod.  Neither of which is exactly scum hunting.  You haven't changed your vote since voting Jokerman for potential rolefishing against webadict, nor have commented on it since so far as I can tell.

Other than Jokerman, who do you think the scum are and why?  Preferably with more reason that intuition.

Org

Internet gone.  Then there's the argument that Lonewolf I cannot read your meta because he's never played against you, but that's only half true.  I don't think he's actually too far off base.

From there you basically are on the defensive, asking why the Exterminator is so important (um, because the Exterminator is scum?...) and then several times asking people to explain why they think you're scum.

But you know what you're not doing at all?  Looking for scum.  Less so than you even usually do.  Looks scummy.

Webadict

For the amount of crap you tend to kick up (and managed to kick up earlier this game), you've been awfully quite the last few pages.  Any particular reason?

And this:

Hey, ToonyMan, if I'm "just stupid", why am I on your dopps list?  I mean, if people who are stupid are scum, surely there are others who could go on your list.

So... yeah... Leafsnail.

Could you explain?  Unfortunately but perhaps luckily, we cannot read your mind.  What is particularly scummy about this post and are there any other reasons that Leafsnail is scummy to you?

Ottofar

I know it's been said, but you've been lurking something fierce even before disappearing off to a summer cottage.  I expect a decent analysis when you get back.

Toaster

Your last two posts were to poke Ottofar for lurking and to ask for an Extension.  Be more active.  Specifically, what is your read on the recent conversation/argument between Jokerman-EXE and Leafsnail?  And who do you think the scum are?

[Toaster]

Lonewolf:  It depends on which of his accusations you mean.  Am I new?  Yes, I am.  I played like crap day one, and I intend to make up for it now.  I was (clearly) wrong on my suspicions of him.  It appears he's always that defensive.  Am I scum, what you probably meant?  No, I am not.  Day one I didn't have any leads, so I tried to ask probing questions to get some.  All I got was a bust.

Was that what you were looking for?

Janus:
I'm dragging ToonyMan into your question, if you don't mind.

Initially I liked Leaf for town.  Toony had posts that seemed empty, and Joker had been focusing on Pandar.

During the argument, Toony's arguments became wordier, but not really any better.  Solifuge calls him on this, and he quiets back down.  Past that he didn't say much at all, but this is where Jokerman takes over.  He jumps in on the offensive as Toony is quieting down.  Joker does better, and pokes some holes in his arguments.  Leaf's defense is decent, but Jokerman appears to have a small leg up on this one.

Joker claims to have originally suspected Toony, but had no problem moving in on his attacker.  This smells like it could be a chainsaw defense.  Final thoughts?  I still feel heavily that Toony is scum, and intend to leave my vote on him.  If he dies and flips scum, I'll be reading hard on Jokerman.  If he flips town, though, I'll be reexamining Leafsnail.

I'd like to know this:
Jokerman and Leafsnail:  If ToonyMan was lynched and flipped scum, would you two be more, less, or equally suspicious of the other?

[Lonewolf I]

Lonewolf:  It depends on which of his accusations you mean.  Am I new?  Yes, I am.  I played like crap day one, and I intend to make up for it now.  I was (clearly) wrong on my suspicions of him.  It appears he's always that defensive.  Am I scum, what you probably meant?  No, I am not.  Day one I didn't have any leads, so I tried to ask probing questions to get some.  All I got was a bust.

Was that what you were looking for?

Meh. More or less. Unvote

JanusTwoFace - What do you think of a Jokerman/Toonyman/Pandarsenic scumteam at this point?
Leafsnail - Assuming we're wrong about scum Toony, and he has just been lazy, who are you reading as scum?

[Jokerman-EXE]

@Toaster: If that happened (which it might, I'm not clearing Toony by any stretch) then I would probably be less suspicious of Leafy. This doesn't seem like a buss, but you never know.

I've been noticing a slight problem, though, in that only a few of us are still even contributing. That being said, I'm not getting megascum vibes off of everyone that's posting, and I think we need to reign it in a little on the off chance that the scum are simply lurking while we build up a head of steam and start lynching each other and they don't do anything.

I'm not saying that talking and posting and examining is a bad idea. I like that we're doing so much. I'm just pointing out that they could simply be lurking and allowing us to kill ourselves. I'd like to hear from Soli, Pandar, Ottofar, and slightly more out of Janus. That seems a reasonable request, since we've been extended until next week.

[Pandarsenic]

"Hi, my name is Boxxyman-EXE, and I" *clip* "do" *clip* "drugs."

*Cue remix*

"Also I don't want to attract the ire of the players who seem like the most likely candidates to change their votes to me, so I'll try to draw attention to anyone who isn't posting right the hell now."

[Leafsnail]

Leafsnail - Assuming we're wrong about scum Toony, and he has just been lazy, who are you reading as scum?

Not the guy who's attacking me in a blaze of misrepping and retardedness, I can tell you that.

It's still Jokerman and Org.

You weren't exposing scum. You were putting your input into someone else's conversation.

I was showing how blatantly dumb ToonyMan's point was.  I don't see what your problem is.

I'm not calling you scum because I don't understand what you're doing. I'm saying taking an action and then refusing to explain why, when it made no sense to anyone, is scummy.

WHAT action?  I've said exactly why I'm voting Toony, and exactly why you and Org are his partners.

I said that you were harder to read, not that I hadn't read you. Just because it was harder doesn't mean I didn't do it.

SO WHAT POINT WERE YOU TRYING TO MAKE BY SAYING I WAS HARD TO READ

I ADDRESSED YOU IN THE EXACT SAME MANNER IN THE SAME POST, DUDE.

I'm not addressing Wolf in any way that I'm not addressing every other player. Unlike you, when I make a move I make an effort to be transparent with my reasoning, so that I don't seem like scum.

liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar liar

Die.

Look at the two ways of addressing.  Mine accuses me of being scum, his warns him not to trust me because I'm "hard to read".  That's definately addressing him from a town aligned POV (scum doesn't need to be careful of scum).

Quite frankly, if ANYONE is buying your arguments, they're retarded and deserve to lose.

You're seriously just not even really trying anymore. This is insane. I can't believe that no one is seeing this. Pandar and Leafsnail are two of the remaining scum. It's so fucking obvious.

Lol.  You show literally no evidence and then declare this out of the blue.

On the other hand, all this resistance I'm meeting strengthens my read on ToonyMan.  You're clearly chainsaw defending him.