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[Elone]

I will fight against Kat's homebrew raptors later.

Kat... where did you go!

Sorry I vanished last night Elone, the cable blipped out ;A;

Maybe you can help me playtest my raptors? I'll send you my current raws in a sec (trying to get the Foundboulder save working right now).

Get to MSN! I'm waiting for HOURS already!

[Jeoshua]

Easiest way to deal with creatures getting violent is to assign them to smaller pastures, singly instead of having many in one large pasture.

[Angel Of Death]

How strong are dread troll bones?

I made a helmet out of them and I need to know if it'll be any better than an iron helmet.

[Deon]

How strong are dread troll bones?

I made a helmet out of them and I need to know if it'll be any better than an iron helmet.

No, metals are much better than creature materials. Tough bones are just 2x time harder than normal, they are still very light and not that great. Well, the quality on items multiplies their usefulness, remember that.

Can this be used on a mac-- merged into the official OSX version, perhaps?

Yes, you need the whole /raw/ folder, as well as /data/speech/ and /data/sound/ for the music. If you play a graphical version, you also need /data/art/ and /data/init/.

[TomiTapio]

Can this be used on a mac-- merged into the official OSX version, perhaps?

Of course. Try the ascii version: delete official DF .25's raws folder and put the Gen ascii raws folder in). Later try the graphical version(s).

[Angel Of Death]

Are dragon bones or dragon raptor bones better than iron?

[TomiTapio]

No. They're totally inferior to copper, except versus blunt attacks.
But they make dragons and trolls and many cave monsters quite more damage resistant. Thus making Vanilla dragons, giants, ogres and trolls a joke.

Older Toughbone discussion and numbers comparing can be found at http://df-genesis.wikidot.com/tips-and-advice where I put it (rather hard to search this giant Genesis thread)

Tough material for tough beasts
the big monsters (hippo, rhino, elephant plus) have tougher skins, muscles, bones, for fun.

TomiTapio made the tough creature materials; used 2x the numbers of regular stuff, quite a big change.
So tough bone has [MAX_EDGE:2000] instead of 1000. Tough nail 2700, tough tooth 2400.
Copper has [MAX_EDGE:10000]. Don't use bone weapons, except bone bolts for rabbit hunting.

Tough bone as armor vs.blunt,
COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:400000]
COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:400000]
COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:400] —4x
Copper,
COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:245 000] steel 1034 000
COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:770 000] steel 1379 000
COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:175] steel 675
so tough bone armor might be reasonable if you only have copper. Make some elephant leather pants.

Maybe the dragons should be even tougher, it's no fun when a dragon attacks and a steel-armor squad takes no damage. (Changed my dragons to speed 600)

Edit2: thanks for making me ponder this. I shall make a domestic farm animal of tough-materials. DuraSheep? No. MiniPig? No. Must be a cave creature, untrainable, smaller than 200kg(400lb). And 2.5x the price of sheep or pig.
Looking for name... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_3.0_edition_monsters

ps. sidetracked! Woe! http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article73.htm  D&D duckbunny, sealion

EditN: Here is Pekyt (cave sheep 60kg) and Giant Pekyt (giant cave sheep 800kg) for us all to enjoy.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[CREATURE:PEKYT] by TomiTapio, based on Rutherer and sheep.
[DESCRIPTION:A squat four-legged moss eater found in the damp caves. They are farmed for their tough leather. Some say they are similar to sheep but with too fragile hairs.]
[NAME:pekyt:pekyts:pekyt]
[CASTE_NAME:pekyt:pekyts:pekyt]
[CHILD:2] --long wait till breeding age. Don't butcher ytour first breeding pair then.
[CREATURE_TILE:'p'][COLOR:7:0:0]
[LARGE_ROAMING][MUNDANE]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC]
[BENIGN][MEANDERER][NATURAL]
[PET][PETVALUE:450] 2.5x of sheep's 180
[GRAZER:700]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:2]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:2:3] --should be rare in caves.
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:3]
[FREQUENCY:8]
[LITTERSIZE:2:3]
[PREFSTRING:snorting sounds]
[NATURAL_SKILL:BITE:3]

[BODY:QUADRUPED:QUADRUPED_JOINTS:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:MOUTH:GENERIC_TEETH:RIBCAGE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:TOUGHSTANDARD_MATERIALS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:BODY_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS:HAIR]
[SELECT_TISSUE_LAYER:HEART:BY_CATEGORY:HEART]
[PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:SKIN:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]
[TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RIBCAGE_POSITIONS]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SINEW:SINEW_TEMPLATE]
[TENDONS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
[LIGAMENTS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
[HAS_NERVES]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
[BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]
[CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]
[GETS_INFECTIONS_FROM_ROT]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:PUS:PUS_TEMPLATE]
[PUS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:PUS:LIQUID]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:6000]
[BODY_SIZE:1:0:35000]
[BODY_SIZE:3:0:60000] -- 20% bigger than sheep
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[MAXAGE:10:30]
[ATTACK:BITE:CHILD_BODYPART_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:BY_CATEGORY:TOOTH]
[ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
[ATTACK_VERB:bite:bites]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK_FLAG_CANLATCH]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[HOMEOTHERM:10050]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[CASTE:FEMALE]
[FEMALE]
[CASTE:MALE]
[MALE]
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:HAIR]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:GRAY:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:BLUE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:skin:SINGULAR]
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:EYE]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:IRIS_EYE_GREEN:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]
[SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
[MULTIPLY_VALUE:1]
[SELECT_MATERIAL:LEATHER]
[MULTIPLY_VALUE:2]

[CREATURE:PEKYT_GIANT] by TomiTapio, based on Rutherer and sheep.
[DESCRIPTION:A large four-legged moss eater found in the damp caves. Their hides and fragile hairs are dark grey. Half again the size of a horse.]
[NAME:giant pekyt:giant pekyts:giant pekyt]
[CASTE_NAME:giant pekyt:pekyts:giant pekyt]
[CHILD:12]
[CREATURE_TILE:'P'][COLOR:7:0:0]
[LARGE_ROAMING][MUNDANE]
[BENIGN][MEANDERER][NATURAL]
[PET][PETVALUE:1350] 3x of Pekyt
[GRAZER:100]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:2:3]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:2:3] --should be rare in caves.
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:2]
[FREQUENCY:6]
[LITTERSIZE:2:3]
[PREFSTRING:haunting trumpeting]
[NATURAL_SKILL:BITE:6]
[NATURAL_SKILL:DODGING:3]
[NATURAL_SKILL:WRESTLING:2]
[NATURAL_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE:3]
[NATURAL_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE:3]
[NATURAL_SKILL:SITUATIONAL_AWARENESS:3]

[BODY:QUADRUPED:QUADRUPED_JOINTS:TAIL:2EYES:2EARS:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:MOUTH:GENERIC_TEETH:RIBCAGE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:TOUGHSTANDARD_MATERIALS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:BODY_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS:HAIR]
[SELECT_TISSUE_LAYER:HEART:BY_CATEGORY:HEART]
[PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:SKIN:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]
[TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RIBCAGE_POSITIONS]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SINEW:SINEW_TEMPLATE]
[TENDONS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
[LIGAMENTS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
[HAS_NERVES]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
[BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]
[CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]
[GETS_INFECTIONS_FROM_ROT]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:PUS:PUS_TEMPLATE]
[PUS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:PUS:LIQUID]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:18000]
[BODY_SIZE:3:0:120000]
[BODY_SIZE:14:0:800000] -- Pekyt 60kg, Rutherer 3000kg, giant pekyt... 800kg.
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[MAXAGE:10:30]
[ATTACK:BITE:CHILD_BODYPART_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:BY_CATEGORY:TOOTH]
[ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
[ATTACK_VERB:bite:bites]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK_FLAG_CANLATCH]
[ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_CATEGORY:FOOT_FRONT] --small Pekyt can't kick
[ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ALL_ACTIVE]
[HOMEOTHERM:10050]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[CASTE:FEMALE]
[FEMALE]
[CASTE:MALE]
[MALE]
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:HAIR]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:GRAY:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:BLUE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:skin:SINGULAR]
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:EYE]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:IRIS_EYE_GREEN:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]
[SELECT_MATERIAL:LEATHER]
[MULTIPLY_VALUE:3]
[SELECT_MATERIAL:BONE]
[MULTIPLY_VALUE:4]


[rainekage]

This is more of a vanilla question, so I hope it will be forgiven:
When attempting to gather water for a wounded dwarf, if I burrow down to the surface of the water level of the cavern, and mark the staircase (directly next to the water) as a water gathering zone, will my dwarves do so?

Context:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just after finishing steel underarmor for my steel axedwarf (high boots, leggings, coif, mail shirt, but not enough for gauntlets), the fort was attacked by undead musk ox (like ten).  My axedwarf, of course, forgot his axe, and they broke his leg and several fingers.  My ferret and several turkeys and chickens died in the fight, but my mastiffs and war pigs carried the day. 

With my only military dwarf immobilized, and no traps  yet in place, it was up to my animals, free or chained, to defend the fort.  It was attacked by undead wooly mammoths, two of which fell to dogs (dogs unharmed), but one is now jammed in a staircase.  Nothing will go fight it, but all of my dwarves are too afraid to go anywhere near it now!  Trying to do what I asked up above

Before post edit:  Steel dwarf died of thirst.  Nobody would get him water, even after digging to the only liquid on the map.  Mammoth still stuck in stairwell.  This fort sure was Fun, just not how I expected. 

[TomiTapio]

That drinkzone-on-end-of-stairs can only be resolved by trying. I doubt it will work.
If it works, please report your findings on the magmawiki.

I just tunnel down near the water area and then put a channel for relatively safe drinking area. (can be made safer with grate in the channel and walls on top)

[CaptainArchmage]

I think there's an option for zone-only drinking in the orders list. Make sure the zone has "water" listed at a non-zero number and is active.

Edit: You can also build a well if you have enough parts.

[Torgan]

This is more of a vanilla question, so I hope it will be forgiven:
When attempting to gather water for a wounded dwarf, if I burrow down to the surface of the water level of the cavern, and mark the staircase (directly next to the water) as a water gathering zone, will my dwarves do so?

I'm pretty sure when zoning you get a number in brackets besides the zone type, if this is 0 then they won't use it.  I think at least, I only noticed this when zoning a fishing area over a pond I'd excavated and the number didn't change from 0 until I designated some land beside the pond as part of the fishing zone instead of just the water tiles. 

[arghy]

Mother of god just lost a fortress to a goddamn single bronze colossus--bridge went up the second it crossed and my miltia of 25 dwarves clad in partial superior+ copper armor fell before its might! I had an epic nearly year long struggle as my war animals threw themselves at it while my dwarves struggled to come to grips with it. It dodged so goddamn much! all of my dwarves had competent+ dodging so it was a game of misses.

I watched my bow/crossbow dwarves step out of the fight and empty their quivers into it to no avail! the damn thing scrambled and dodged away from them! Seriously year 3 52 dwarves and i get a goddamn bronze colossus. I was just about to begin digging my plans to divert the brook into the center of my fortress and out of the first cavern having multiple flood traps along my winding entryway.

[TomiTapio]

It is far better to lose to a megabeast than to three beastriding demon squads.

What kind of weapons did you guys have, copper?
Considered building some walls to save some people when many soldiers died?


Edit: Yeah the Illithids have all sorts of tissues in their castes. I suppose ultra-healing (faster than Wolverine's) would help against the bleeding that happens ins dorf fire.
But it'll break save-compatibility so people with long-term forts won't like it.

[Vorthon]

Hey. I remember hearing that temperature tolerances were removed because of tissue difficulties? I could probably fix that. I figured out a way around that for a mod I'm working on. Basically, I put in a rare caste with incredible regenerative capabilities, and accidentally gave the tissue properties to all castes. I managed to fix it after a bit of fiddling.

I could post the data on them if anybody wants to take a look at my approach.

[arghy]

Nah the colossus was in my central stairwell and i actually dident lose a single dwarf but when i quit more then half of army was seriously wounded and attrition was past the breaking point. I used quickfort so i can actually make the same awesome looking fort again with ease now that i've perfected its layout--this time no war grizzlys because they are overrated.