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Author Topic: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod  (Read 17156 times)

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod
« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2010, 01:08:12 pm »

While using the Caste system for everything sounds great, I'd like to see you try including different creatures into one Civ instead of them all being one species of different castes.

If you look at the Animal People's Entity Entry you'll see that there is more than one type of creature allowed within the Civ. This may prove useful for your SCIENCE!

... Didn't know that... I'll have to look it up...

But my lamia are all-female, so they have to have another species to mate with.



In the elf cow front... SUCCESS!  HAHA, TOADY YOU DIDN'T PUT UP ROADBLOCKS FOR ANYTHING, DID YOU?



I managed to breed elf cows and elf bulls successfully, even though they were [INTELLIGENT], and simply had [PET] and [COMMON_DOMESTIC] on them.

My first elf calf has been born, who has [CAN_LEARN], but no labors enabled, so they mostly just chew their cud at my meeting place while slowly growing in socializing skills.

With a little more patience, my other breeding stock should start producing actual (regular) elves, who will be part of my own civilization.

This means it's possible, though a backdoor exploit, to actually make other civ creatures part of your civ.

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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
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TheLoneGunman

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Re: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2010, 01:14:05 pm »

While using the Caste system for everything sounds great, I'd like to see you try including different creatures into one Civ instead of them all being one species of different castes.

If you look at the Animal People's Entity Entry you'll see that there is more than one type of creature allowed within the Civ. This may prove useful for your SCIENCE!

... Didn't know that... I'll have to look it up...

But my lamia are all-female, so they have to have another species to mate with.

Well perhaps you can use the Caste system as a sort of sub-species type deal while still maintaining separate species of creatures as well.

Imagine a civ that is like a huge ant farm. Soldiers, Workers, Larva, Drones, Queens, even Honeypot Ants that are milkable!  ;D
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2010, 01:25:12 pm »

Well, an ant-like civ is what I do want to produce...
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

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h3lblad3

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Re: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod
« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2010, 01:28:05 pm »

Just as long as no one makes a Spartan Saiyan race that uses castes to decide what rank the warrior is. X_X

More realistic ants is always welcome, though!
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I was talking about importing alimunim.
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TheLoneGunman

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Re: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2010, 01:33:28 pm »

Well, an ant-like civ is what I do want to produce...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well take a look at that then from the raws.

Also, if you plan on making different castes have different body parts from one another, then you need to get rid of the generic body parts and give each cast its own set, or you'll end up with crazy conglomerations of parts from both the generic and caste-only.

You may want to mess with population diversity as well, or allow queens to have huge litters to offset the fact that there are few reproductive members of society if you make them too ant-like (ie only queens are fertile).
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Lancensis

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Re: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod
« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2010, 02:11:57 pm »

If you look at the Animal People's Entity Entry you'll see that there is more than one type of creature allowed within the Civ. This may prove useful for your SCIENCE!

... Didn't know that... I'll have to look it up...

It picks one species at random and the entire civilization will be that creature. Older versions worked the same way if you put multiple species in a entity.
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TheLoneGunman

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Re: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod
« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2010, 02:14:57 pm »

If you look at the Animal People's Entity Entry you'll see that there is more than one type of creature allowed within the Civ. This may prove useful for your SCIENCE!

... Didn't know that... I'll have to look it up...

It picks one species at random and the entire civilization will be that creature. Older versions worked the same way if you put multiple species in a entity.

Ah ok, that makes more sense.

Too bad it doesn't allow them all to coexist in one Civ.
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Grfnrblin

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Re: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod
« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2010, 04:36:14 pm »

This looks like a very interesting mod, and I for one say that the more literal cow-people interpretation of minotaurs would be best.
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FACM

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Re: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod
« Reply #53 on: April 04, 2010, 08:23:31 pm »

If you look at the Animal People's Entity Entry you'll see that there is more than one type of creature allowed within the Civ. This may prove useful for your SCIENCE!

... Didn't know that... I'll have to look it up...

It picks one species at random and the entire civilization will be that creature. Older versions worked the same way if you put multiple species in a entity.

This isn't what I saw. When I added humans/goblins/etc to the mountain civ, each race would make its own Mountain Halls. So, I had humans settle one mountain hall, goblins another, etc. They never inter-mingled on friendly terms (humans never immigrated to the gobin fort, for example), so it's still not what he was looking for, but it's slightly closer than what you said.
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chintznibbles

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Re: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod
« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2010, 12:04:51 am »

This mod sounds pretty awesome if you can get it off the ground.  Not 100% certain there's support for it in the current system, but if the ant-people are a functional example, a multi-caste race might be the way to go...

Although, if you try a wide variety of castes in a single "race", is there anything stopping them from randomly breeding with others that aren't their same species?  And would it just randomly pick a caste for the offspring?  I'm imagining a dwarf and a lamia somehow mysteriously giving birth to a minotaur.

Dwarf: "Son, your mommy and I have something to tell you: you were adopted."
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Halconnen

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Re: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod
« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2010, 01:07:37 am »

You are aware that you can just give the Tsukumogami caste no gender token and you'll end with them unable to breed even if though they can still pop up rarely?

I just know I wouldn't want an umbrella as mom.
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Lancensis

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Re: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod
« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2010, 03:42:18 pm »

It picks one species at random and the entire civilization will be that creature. Older versions worked the same way if you put multiple species in a entity.

This isn't what I saw. When I added humans/goblins/etc to the mountain civ, each race would make its own Mountain Halls. So, I had humans settle one mountain hall, goblins another, etc. They never inter-mingled on friendly terms (humans never immigrated to the gobin fort, for example), so it's still not what he was looking for, but it's slightly closer than what you said.

They're different civilizations, they just use the same entity definition. A normal worldgen places a few dozen civilizations and so necessarily some of them have to be doubles. The game will place several civilizations from the mountain entity, picking a species to populate it with from among the creatures listed (just one for most civilizations in vanilla - apart from the underground people).
I know I was being overly simplistic before, but I couldn't find a good way to explain it, and just went with it. It's important to recognise the difference between an entity definition in the raws, and an actual civilization.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod
« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2010, 12:06:12 am »

Oh... It's possible.

A LOT of stuff is possible in the new caste system.

In fact, this caste system seems to have almost no rails built into it whatsoever, and you can do some pretty crazy stuff I never expected I'd be able to get away with.

Continuing the last test, I found that there is actually a bug in the way that creatures are born in castes.  My elf cows gave birth to elf calves... but some of these calves are actually real elves, but they are treated as "calves" from their mother's caste.

... In other words, what I believe is happening is that until adulthood, the baby takes on the properties of its mother's caste, including the length of its childhood (in this case, [CHILD:1]).

My (U)nits menu split off four of the elf calves into the same position on the units screen that is normally occupied by children of my own caste, had personalities described in their detailed view like a normal dwarf of my civ, and generally behaved as if they were a dwarf of my civ for all game purposes.



In other news, because I didn't bother to alter my dwarves since the last test, I still had unintelligent male dwarves, which turned out to be able to marry female dwarves... so I had the blushing bride turned into a butcher, and had her butcher her own husband... then adopt some vultures I had bought from the elven caravan as pets.

Why choose which is worse?  Milk your husband, then butcher him, and roast his flesh in his own milk as a sauce!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

... yeah, this game is getting pretty weird.

oh look! My garbage heap has "Peasant Nervous Tissue"



Butchering my elf bulls (leaving one alive to stud) produced no effect on my elven children who had actual personalities, and were tracked as psuedo-actual-dwarves.  In fact, they were "Quite Content" with no tracking of their happy thoughts at all.

I think this is because they are still tracked as being their mother's caste.

Oh, and the dwarf meat and skin went to my stockpiles, but the elf meat and skin (because the elf bulls are INTELLIGENT) went to the graveyard... heh...

One of my unintelligent male dwarves became very unhappy (but didn't actually tantrum) when I butchered all the peasants.

There seems to be a crash-to-desktop bug related to dwarf fat, however, as looking at globs in the stocks menu will... well, crash-to-desktop.



My lamia are naked.  This seems to be a problem with having a non-bipedal frame.  Yes, I know for some, having naked women running slithering around would be "a feature, not a bug", but it's fairly annoying.

If I put them in the military, I can force them to wear things... but it seems difficult, and my lamia seems to keep dropping equipment like helmets after she's put them on...

On the other hand, one of them is wearing iron greaves...



Finally made it through... OK, after a full year, my "true elf" elf calves are not growing into an adult, so they are simply bypassing the baby stage because of their mother, not their full adolesence
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 10:40:10 am by NW_Kohaku »
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

Improved Farming
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Deon

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Re: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod
« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2010, 12:39:46 am »

Quote
Milk your husband, then butcher him, and roast his flesh in his own milk as a sauce!
This is something... completely different.

You went too far with your science :P. Something which was planned like a simple fantasy mod may devour your soul and essence and produce an abomination. These are dangers of true modding all of us true modders have to experience. You have to find a strength within to withstand their influence.
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Naes Draw

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Re: Stonehall Alliance - Experimental DF2010 cosmopolitan civs mod
« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2010, 08:59:24 am »


My lamia are naked.  This seems to be a problem with having a non-bipedal frame.  Yes, I know for some, having naked women running slithering around would be "a bug, not a feature", but it's fairly annoying.

You sure you didn't typo those backwards?  ;)
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[CREATURE:CAT]
   [NAME:sena cat:sena cat:sena cat]
   [INTELLIGENT] [MISCHIEVOUS] [FEMALE]
   [PREFSTRING:craziness]
   [SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_SHOES:UNCOMMON]
   [PERMITTED_JOB:MODDER]
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