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[Leafsnail]

Sorry, I have been lurking.  I blame procrastination.  Every time it's "I'll post in this thread a little later"... eh.  Unvote diakron.

Now, as for your own query back at me, my opinion is much similar. I think its not really a serious scumtell at all, however, it probably is better than just randomly voting around. However, I don't agree with his stance.

Fair enough - reasons, though?

Angry stuff.

To be honest, this looks like town webadict to me.  Scum webadict is more mild, although there is the possibility of self-meta manipulation.  I don't really get run on sentences as a scumtell; they crop up in my writing all the time, and it's more a pandar-tell anyway.

This is the same deal. It sounds hesitant, non-direct - which is just the sort of way scum feels. I see that Dak mentions all of this in his arguments, looking back over, but I still think it's rapidly approaching the significant level. Unvote Nirur Torir, vote Webadict. It's good enough for me, frankly.

Funnily enough, I think this quote applies a lot more to itself than it does to the thing SB was quoting.  He doesn't make a direct accusation, only saying that it feels like scum, and that it's "good enough" (for what?  A lynch?  Further examination?  A bandwagon?).

Way to jump into the sky over something "minor". Hell, those points weren't good, but you leaping like a Mexican Jumping Bean was.

This is also suspicious, SirBayer.  You admit to having bad posts, but are using that as a way of strengthening your case due to an "overreaction".  Firstly, I'm not sure overreaction can ever be seen as a scumtell on webadict, and secondly, you aren't trying to back up this point, probably because webadict would demolish it if you did.  So, SirBayer - what is your actual case on webadict?  I'd like you to make it without reference to overreaction to bad points.

You did jump when it looked like Bayer was joining a bandwagon against you. According to General Mountainterror's Guide to Mafia, page 266, people getting overly wordy at being bandwagoned need to be bandwagoned further.

Nirur Torir, if you vote someone while SAYING it is just a bandwagonning vote, you aren't adding any pressure.  You're just trying to look active and appearing to do something.  And it looked suspiciously like you were distancing yourself from Bayer earlier.

Conclusion: Webby is either failing scum today or a jester.

Your case isn't nearly strong enough to justify such a conclusion and you know it.

Webadict what's the matter? did you get caught as scum and are panicking?

Lame accusation is lame.  Diakron, any real reasons?

For now, I want Leafsnail to get in here and find scum.

Well, if you want me to find scum, why are you voting me :/?

In summary - SirBayer and Nirur Torir look bad, and I see a connection.  Diakron's being extremely lame and possibly scum.

[Vector]

For now, I want Leafsnail to get in here and find scum.

Well, if you want me to find scum, why are you voting me :/?

Scared of pressure-votes, hm?

[Nirur Torir]

You did jump when it looked like Bayer was joining a bandwagon against you. According to General Mountainterror's Guide to Mafia, page 266, people getting overly wordy at being bandwagoned need to be bandwagoned further.

Nirur Torir, if you vote someone while SAYING it is just a bandwagonning vote, you aren't adding any pressure.  You're just trying to look active and appearing to do something.  And it looked suspiciously like you were distancing yourself from Bayer earlier.

First off, Pandarsenic wants FoSs to remain uncolored.
I disagree with the bolded statement. Webadict was clearly annoyed by being voted with bad reasons. My vote also set him closer to a hammer, causing further frustration.

[Leafsnail]

For now, I want Leafsnail to get in here and find scum.

Well, if you want me to find scum, why are you voting me :/?

Scared of pressure-votes, hm?

No.  Just find his logic (and reason for voting me) confusing.

And yeah, sorry.  I'll try and keep them uncoloured.

[SirBayer]

Way to jump into the sky over something "minor". Hell, those points weren't good, but you leaping like a Mexican Jumping Bean was.

This is also suspicious, SirBayer.  You admit to having bad posts, but are using that as a way of strengthening your case due to an "overreaction".  Firstly, I'm not sure overreaction can ever be seen as a scumtell on webadict, and secondly, you aren't trying to back up this point, probably because webadict would demolish it if you did.  So, SirBayer - what is your actual case on webadict?  I'd like you to make it without reference to overreaction to bad points.

Oh, I get it, you didn't actually read anything I did after that, where I meticulously went over every single post and pushed him for scumminess.

Okay, well, come back to me when you have and we'll talk.

Unvote Webadict. Vote Nirur Torir. Let's have a look at your posts.

Spoiler: Nirur Torir (click to show/hide)

ToonyMan, if you were on the scumteam, who else would you pick to be on it with you, amongst the current players?

Thank you, unvote.

Tehstefan, you've only posted once, and that was to throw a vote at the person random voting you. Which 3-person scumteam would you most fear in this game, and why is each person on that list?

This is after pushing Toony... very, very little. Then another flopvote:

Nirur's from tehstefan to toon

What? I unvoted.

Nirur, you know that your not exactly one to be blaming others of inactivity.

However, in light of answering your question, If I had a three person scum team, it would be pandar, toony and web, all experienced players who know how to play mafia.

I've played with toony and pandar, and their fiercesome scum, and I've played against web, and know what kind of terror he can be. All of them are very hard to fight as scum, and all of them together would be very hard.

Likewise to you Nirur, if you had to have one person on your scum team, who would it be?

Just one person? Probably Vector, for the learning experience and the skill.
I'm trying to improve my natural lurker tendencies, and I think only playing one game at a time will help. If I can get over my strange fear of attacking players I perceive as being noticably more skilled then myself. Unvote.

Eduran. How do you intend to find scum if you don't apply psychological pressure?

On the same page, after some vague accusations:

Oh, right.
Unvote Eduren. I still want an answer, but my RVS stage has ended. For now, at least.
Vote SirBayer.

Right. Uhm.

Unvote SirBayer. Vote Webadict for defensiveness.

Are you saying that people should be allowed to vote with terrible points? I clearly shot down all of your reasons and you incorrectly determine that this makes your points MORE valid?

"HEY! You don't have the right to vote me without good reasoning!"

In fact, just for that, I want you to go through every one of my posts and analyze them. For EVERYONE to see. Do it, because clearly I'd have had to've left more scumtells in there, and you know so much about scumhunting.

"I want you to go look though my posts for evidence. By seeing how little you have, you'll unvote me."

You did jump when it looked like Bayer was joining a bandwagon against you. According to General Mountainterror's Guide to Mafia, page 266, people getting overly wordy at being bandwagoned need to be bandwagoned further.

Jumps onto a bandwagon. Very quickly.

Vector, I don't see how a mass fake-role claim will help. The most likely result I see is the scum seeing a pattern, and noticing which roles aren't claimed, allowing them a higher chance of fake claiming.

Unvote Webadict, based on Dakairon's and Vector's assessment. My bandwagon was merely a pressure vote on you until they responded.

Vote Dakarian. Your certainty is a compelling argument.

Extension for Webadict.

CK, I still want an answer.

Tries to explain away the bandwagon vote, jumps on the opposite potential bandwagon.

I can't see how any of this can be justified.

[webadict]

Way to jump into the sky over something "minor". Hell, those points weren't good, but you leaping like a Mexican Jumping Bean was.

This is also suspicious, SirBayer.  You admit to having bad posts, but are using that as a way of strengthening your case due to an "overreaction".  Firstly, I'm not sure overreaction can ever be seen as a scumtell on webadict, and secondly, you aren't trying to back up this point, probably because webadict would demolish it if you did.  So, SirBayer - what is your actual case on webadict?  I'd like you to make it without reference to overreaction to bad points.

Oh, I get it, you didn't actually read anything I did after that, where I meticulously went over every single post and pushed him for scumminess.

Okay, well, come back to me when you have and we'll talk.

Unvote Webadict. Vote Nirur Torir. Let's have a look at your posts.

Spoiler: Nirur Torir (click to show/hide)

ToonyMan, if you were on the scumteam, who else would you pick to be on it with you, amongst the current players?

Thank you, unvote.

Tehstefan, you've only posted once, and that was to throw a vote at the person random voting you. Which 3-person scumteam would you most fear in this game, and why is each person on that list?

This is after pushing Toony... very, very little. Then another flopvote:

Nirur's from tehstefan to toon

What? I unvoted.

Nirur, you know that your not exactly one to be blaming others of inactivity.

However, in light of answering your question, If I had a three person scum team, it would be pandar, toony and web, all experienced players who know how to play mafia.

I've played with toony and pandar, and their fiercesome scum, and I've played against web, and know what kind of terror he can be. All of them are very hard to fight as scum, and all of them together would be very hard.

Likewise to you Nirur, if you had to have one person on your scum team, who would it be?

Just one person? Probably Vector, for the learning experience and the skill.
I'm trying to improve my natural lurker tendencies, and I think only playing one game at a time will help. If I can get over my strange fear of attacking players I perceive as being noticably more skilled then myself. Unvote.

Eduran. How do you intend to find scum if you don't apply psychological pressure?

On the same page, after some vague accusations:

Oh, right.
Unvote Eduren. I still want an answer, but my RVS stage has ended. For now, at least.
Vote SirBayer.

Right. Uhm.

Unvote SirBayer. Vote Webadict for defensiveness.

Are you saying that people should be allowed to vote with terrible points? I clearly shot down all of your reasons and you incorrectly determine that this makes your points MORE valid?

"HEY! You don't have the right to vote me without good reasoning!"

In fact, just for that, I want you to go through every one of my posts and analyze them. For EVERYONE to see. Do it, because clearly I'd have had to've left more scumtells in there, and you know so much about scumhunting.

"I want you to go look though my posts for evidence. By seeing how little you have, you'll unvote me."

You did jump when it looked like Bayer was joining a bandwagon against you. According to General Mountainterror's Guide to Mafia, page 266, people getting overly wordy at being bandwagoned need to be bandwagoned further.

Jumps onto a bandwagon. Very quickly.

Vector, I don't see how a mass fake-role claim will help. The most likely result I see is the scum seeing a pattern, and noticing which roles aren't claimed, allowing them a higher chance of fake claiming.

Unvote Webadict, based on Dakairon's and Vector's assessment. My bandwagon was merely a pressure vote on you until they responded.

Vote Dakarian. Your certainty is a compelling argument.

Extension for Webadict.

CK, I still want an answer.

Tries to explain away the bandwagon vote, jumps on the opposite potential bandwagon.

I can't see how any of this can be justified.

Seriously, why are you even here, SirBayer?

[Mr.Person]

SirBayer, I literally made a reply basically saying exactly what you've just said about Nirur Torir.

Things of note: Webadict's not on the town, but he's not a mafia member (AKA what Dakarian said). Town Webadict is smart enough to know that "Lynch him then me" is ALWAYS bad. Either a Jester or a Lyncher, I'd say. His claim sounds like the kind of thing you would give a Jester to make sure they don't get night killed, too.

I'm going to say Dakarian's town. No way would he jump off of Webadict (who's a really fucking easy lynch right now) if he was scum. Well, I guess I'd have to know Webadict's alignment. It could, after all, be a giant staged fight, but I seriously doubt that.

@Vector: What made you think there's 3 mafia members?
Why did you list a bunch of stuff I did as scummy, then say I was town?
I don't see how you think ToonyMan is scum. Too silly? For ToonyMan, that's literally the equivalent of a Too Townie Fallacy.
I also love how you attack Tehstefan for sidelining, then literally say "People, press this man harder." which is, you know, sidelining itself. Also, Tehstefan wasn't sidelining. He asked a legitimate question about one player's thoughts on another so as to generate conversation.

[Nirur Torir]

I admit that I tend flop around during RVS. What of it?

I know that my own chances of reading Webadict are/were slim. All I felt I could do to help against him was add pressure, and try to analyze the more experienced players' readings of him.

I can't see how any of this can be justified.

If you must know, I took Dakarian's advice to heart after reading the Boot Camp Mafia thread, and stopped caring about if my actions can be read as scum-tells.

I parry your attack, and raise you a counterattack. Bold text is my own.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nirur Torir, why do you have a space in your name?

Although I admit that it would be more dwarfy to be named Nirurtorir, I have humanized it with a space.

Why does your name lack a space? Were you feeling particularly scummy when you created your account?

1. Because my spacebar had been mysteriously and forcibly removed from the keyboard.
2. Actually, I was feeling like a butterfly floating freely into the sky, singing Gregorian Chants all the way, but that was because it was way too late and apparently the medication had set in already.

That's beside the point.

Parroting Vector: Name your top three scumbuddies from the list. Can't think of your own questions?

Good morning, SirBayer.  Name your top three scumbuddies from this game's player list.

1.Vector
2.Vector
3.Vector

Yeah, I want three clones of you. That would be awesome. You didn't actually explain this, aside from a "Oh, I can't pick, because I don't end up on scumteams." Seems like a buddying attempt to me.

[....]

Webadict, why is it that when I read your posts they normally make sense easily, but when I went down there and read that one, it kind of... didn't? Weak, passive attack.

I have an awful hard time choosing scumteams, since I really never end up on them

No, not so much. Only scum are afraid to answer questions, and I'm not scum.

Number of scumtells I count: 3.
1) Claiming to not be scum.
2) Overly defensive and not attacking.
3) Clearly stressed out while answering questions.

Well, it's nice to know that you understand scumhunting and that you do it, but get your tells straight.

You were indeed defensive, not attacking, and apparently stressed about something. I'm glad you've finally shifted over to attack mode.

Nirur: Don't even. You bandwagoned. I'm ignoring it for now because I've got a bigger fight on my hands, but you've been flip-flopping your vote everywhere, changing your mind faster than the speed of sound, and now you've bandwagoned. You're scum, and I'm not sure if you're trying to bus or what, but we've caught you.

"You're scum. After I'm done bussing your partner with your help, I'm coming for you."
Did you really think that statement through?

So, who was it that changed your mind about Webadict being scummier then myself?

[webadict]

SirBayer, I literally made a reply basically saying exactly what you've just said about Nirur Torir.

Things of note: Webadict's not on the town, but he's not a mafia member (AKA what Dakarian said). Town Webadict is smart enough to know that "Lynch him then me" is ALWAYS bad. Either a Jester or a Lyncher, I'd say. His claim sounds like the kind of thing you would give a Jester to make sure they don't get night killed, too.

I'm going to say Dakarian's town. No way would he jump off of Webadict (who's a really fucking easy lynch right now) if he was scum. Well, I guess I'd have to know Webadict's alignment. It could, after all, be a giant staged fight, but I seriously doubt that.

@Vector: What made you think there's 3 mafia members?
Why did you list a bunch of stuff I did as scummy, then say I was town?
I don't see how you think ToonyMan is scum. Too silly? For ToonyMan, that's literally the equivalent of a Too Townie Fallacy.
I also love how you attack Tehstefan for sidelining, then literally say "People, press this man harder." which is, you know, sidelining itself. Also, Tehstefan wasn't sidelining. He asked a legitimate question about one player's thoughts on another so as to generate conversation.

You're a straight-up moron.

So, I'm not Town but I'm not scum but clearly this could all be a staged fight but look at that it's probably not yeah definitely not maybe sorta kinda i don't know okay maybe i do but who the heck cares why am i still alive

dakarian is hardcore lurking to avoid a lynch. He backed off to look town, but he's leaving so many holes in his reasoning you could use it for a screen door. Now you're using some sort of catch-all argument to protect dakarian. It's like everything dakarian does is Giant Mountains Of Gold (GMOGs), and everything I do is Unholy Pits Of Destitution (UPODs). What is this, some sort of sick infatuation?

Vector? How about the part where Pandarsenic SAID THERE WERE THREE MAFIA MEMBERS?!? Are Townies now incapable of scumtells? I didn't realize! That means nobody is town, right? WOW, game over guys! We're all mafia! End the game now! GG LOL ROFLCOPTER.

Suck a lemon.

[Nirur Torir]

I must say, a Mafia game where there are secretly 4 mafias of 3 players each and a serial killer would be amusing.

[Mr.Person]

So Webadict, why exactly are you freaking out so much and, more importantly, ANSWERING OTHER PEOPLE'S QUESTIONS?

[webadict]

So Webadict, why exactly are you freaking out so much and, more importantly, ANSWERING OTHER PEOPLE'S QUESTIONS?

Because you're doing nothing productive.

Oh wait, was that one for me or not?

[SirBayer]

No time to post. Just realized I forgot to request Extension.

[Mr.Person]

Yeah, Webadct's being super-abrasive on purpose. He's also being non-helpful on purpose.

He's a Jester.

[ToonyMan]

I am here, but I have to leave and won't be back until later.

You go suck a lime Webadict.