Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Sowelu]

Using the mouse to select things/creatures on the map, right now, is kind of tricky...because a tile can contain so many simultaneous things.

It would be nice if you could click on a tile and get a list popping up on the right-hand side telling you what's in that tile, so you could select from that list, though.

[Safe-Keeper]

You'd also be getting away from the point of the game.

Unlike most other games, Dungeon Keeper/Evil Genius/Dwarf Fortress do not allow direct control. Any random RTS game lets you directly control things on the map.

This genre is about indirect control. Instead of ordering Urist to go chop down that tree, you tell him he's now a lumberjack and that he's okay. Then designate some trees to be chopped. He'll eventually get around to chopping the trees.

Same goes for putting on equipment. You're doing top down orders, not micromanaging everything.

The ruler of a huge fortress does not tell each individual dwarf how to dress. He just sets up what sort of gear the military guys should wear, orders some sets of armor to be made at the blacksmith, and then the dwarves tend to things as best they can.

Right, because it's not as if there's a screen telling you what weapon, armour and shield to give each dwarf... oh, wait, silly me, there is.

I see the points about limb number, though, and concede that probably a list format would work better. Like:

Urist McWar Monger

Head: [Steel helmet]
Left Hand: [Iron Battle Axe]
Right Hand: [Empty]
Upper Body: [Iron Chain Mail]
{list continues for other body parts}

Inventory:
Steel Chain Mail (distance 12)
Iron Chain Mail (distance 12)
Iron Chain Mail (distance 12)
Iron Chain Mail (distance 62)

It would be nice if you could click on a tile and get a list popping up on the right-hand side telling you what's in that tile, so you could select from that list, though.

Isn't that what the K and T keys already do?

[G-Flex]

You'd also be getting away from the point of the game.

Unlike most other games, Dungeon Keeper/Evil Genius/Dwarf Fortress do not allow direct control. Any random RTS game lets you directly control things on the map.

This genre is about indirect control. Instead of ordering Urist to go chop down that tree, you tell him he's now a lumberjack and that he's okay. Then designate some trees to be chopped. He'll eventually get around to chopping the trees.

Same goes for putting on equipment. You're doing top down orders, not micromanaging everything.

The ruler of a huge fortress does not tell each individual dwarf how to dress. He just sets up what sort of gear the military guys should wear, orders some sets of armor to be made at the blacksmith, and then the dwarves tend to things as best they can.

Right, because it's not as if there's a screen telling you what weapon, armour and shield to give each dwarf... oh, wait, silly me, there is.

No, there isn't. You specify generic armor and shield levels, and which type of weapon. Saying "wear plate armor, and use an axe and a shield" is different from personally specifying every single piece of equipment that they use.

In fact, if anything it'll get less micro in the next version, since you'll be specifying uniforms at the squad level and that sort of thing.

[Footkerchief]

No, there isn't. You specify generic armor and shield levels, and which type of weapon. Saying "wear plate armor, and use an axe and a shield" is different from personally specifying every single piece of equipment that they use.

You can actually do either.  It lets you specify specific items, too.

[G-Flex]

In the current version? I don't recall being able to pick out which exact helmet I wanted them to wear, or anything similar.

[Footkerchief]

Oh, I thought y'all were talking about the upcoming version.

[h3lblad3]

I think the UI is viable, actually, there just needs to be a few changes.

-Consistency. Navigating all menus should use the same keys, regardless of the menu. An exception can be made for menus that accept text, but all menus that take text should use the same key to back out as well. There are a few that do this.

-Job assignment. The in-game job assignment interface is HORRENDOUS! Anybody who has the patience to play DF without Dwarf Manager or Dwarf Therapist is either a masochist or has way too much time on their hands. An in-game dwarf management tool needs to be put in. There's no way it can be called 1.0 with such an awful interface.

Really, everything else falls under either better organization or a tutorial. Since new things are added constantly, an official tutorial would be pointless (think about if Toady had spent weeks designing a tutorial for the current military, then how much he would have to change it for the next version? Almost everything changed, the old tutorial and the weeks of work would be pointless). The same thing goes for organization, although some updates can be made (can we sort the animals menu by species instead of by date acquired? And can we get a search function for both types of stone and for the stocks menu) a lot is being added so a hard-coded or even raw based organization system wouldn't work.

I would just like to say that I don't use Dwarf Manager or Therapist because I don't want the hassle. 

[Shades]

I would just like to say that I don't use Dwarf Manager or Therapist because I don't want the hassle. 

That pretty much my argument for using therapist, I don't want the hassle...

[Atanamis]

Quick interface improvements:
As you move the cursor, you can hit "enter" at any time, which would open a list in the left hand column of all objects in that square. You can then select any of them using cursor up/down and enter, which gives you full details of that object. That "object" can be any creature, construction, item, building, switch, designation, zone, stockpile, etc. Main hotkeys: k,q, D

From that display, you can see value, forbid, claim, contents, assign jobs (dwarf or building), specify rooms (built object), see feelings, assign military duty/squad, weapons, etc. All elements could have hotkeys AND be navigable using arrow keys and enter. Advantage: intuitive way to control any object on the map that you can see through a single interface.

As you move the cursor, you can hit "b" at any time to build anything buildable. Organize buildings into clearer categories so that objects can be found easily. When building objects that can generate rooms, user is asked if they want to generate a room immediately (it will not be active until object is built), and all buildings that can be owned will ask if you want to assign the building to a specific dwarf.

Hitting "d" should allow any kind of zone to be designated, including those currently under "i", and "p". To an experienced player the differences become obvious, but the aren't to a newbie. Anything that requires a space to be outlined should fall into this category, and again properly clear categories to make everything locatable is vital. This would include building roads, farm plots, etc. Have one interface only for outlining, rather than the uhkm and wasdx nonsense for constructions combined with the cursor arrows and enter for designations. Be consistent.

Another key perhaps l(ists) would allow one to choose between announcements, civs, designated areas, artifacts, nobles, units (filterable), military, inventory. These tasks are all chosen only when the player expects to be doing some reading, and don't need a top level listing. We could allow top level hotkeys for each, but not show them in a pane.

We should be able to reduce the number of "top level" options a player needs to remember from 20 to 6 (space to pause and Esc for options). Add use of "?" to all menu options for details about that object (what is needed to construct, what it does, etc), and make any option that cannot be done currently gray (though it can still be queried). These changes shouldn't inhibit experienced players, but would make the game much easier for newbies to learn. Mostly the menus just need a little more intuitive an organization and an easy way for a newbie to determine what is needed to built/use any given construction. Currently, the game is initially unplayable without the wiki. Long term, there is no reason it has to stay that way.

[nenjin]

I don't see how you can play fortresses over 50 without some sort of 3rd party management tool. Their ability to collate all the data you need to know into one visual package, and reducing the amount of clicks and keys you have to hit, is just invaluable. The tedium of finding dwarf-related information through the game itself, once you break 100 pop, almost stopped me from playing until I found DT.

[teloft]

perhaps a new design path sould be selected, where the game by "Bay 12 Games" Sould focus on the story and the game events, and abandening the howl DF interface. Then 3rd party management, visulation and design tools are combined to make iterfaces to the game.

[lucusLoC]

that has been discussed before. it was rejected for a variety of reasons.