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[RedKing]

Really though, this is a not-inaccurate simulation of what will inevitable happen to us (in terms of ceaseless expansion, at least). Assuming we never manage to figure out how to break physics and generate matter from nothing.

Though the question is if we would kill everybody we see without even saying anything to them first.

I tend to take John Scalzi's "Humans are Bastards" view (Old Man's War series). Basically, that as latecomers to the interstellar stage, we'd have to be completely ruthless assholes in order to carve out some territory, or else wind up either somebody else's protectorate or wiped out. Now if we were established first and *then* made contact, particularly with a lower-tech race.....wait, what am I saying? Look at our own history. We'd give them smallpox blankets or addict them to opium.

Multi-stage LR missiles and/or MIRV weapons work well, once you're high enough up in tech. At low tech levels, the inefficiencies just kill you. You wind up having to build a size 60 missile to do what a handful of size 5 missiles could do if you just closed to half the range. I tried doing something similar with using missiles to deliver geosensor buoys from distance (to quickly and safely scout new systems). It's ridiculously unworkable at a starting tech level.

[Sirus]

using missiles to deliver geosensor buoys from distance (to quickly and safely scout new systems)

That's actually a really cool idea
Perhaps unfeasible at low tech levels, but still!

[Tarran]

I tend to take John Scalzi's "Humans are Bastards" view (Old Man's War series). Basically, that as latecomers to the interstellar stage, we'd have to be completely ruthless assholes in order to carve out some territory, or else wind up either somebody else's protectorate or wiped out.

How do you know if we're late? We could be the first interstellar race around our section of space for all we know.

Now if we were established first and *then* made contact, particularly with a lower-tech race.....wait, what am I saying? Look at our own history. We'd give them smallpox blankets or addict them to opium.

The question is if they would be effected by either at all, and how fast they would find a cure for either if they are affected.

[Sheb]

Or we'd invade their planet, and set up reservation to park them in.

[RedKing]

[

Now if we were established first and *then* made contact, particularly with a lower-tech race.....wait, what am I saying? Look at our own history. We'd give them smallpox blankets or addict them to opium.

The question is if they would be effected by either at all, and how fast they would find a cure for either if they are affected.

The argument was intended to show prior agency, not a specific mechanism. Suffice it to say, if we found something of ours that made them sick or some chemical compound that they could be addicted to, I don't trust us not to use it to gain an imperialist advantage.

using missiles to deliver geosensor buoys from distance (to quickly and safely scout new systems)

That's actually a really cool idea
Perhaps unfeasible at low tech levels, but still!

I know, right? If only I could mount grav sensors on a buoy, I'd do the same to all the system survey points. The beauty of it is that once it's a feasible option, you could outfit one big-ass survey cruiser, pop into an unsurveyed system, fire off a volley of buoys, then jump out and head for the next system. The buoys would be designed to handle about 300-500 survey points' worth over time, and since you can determine survey points needed for a body before surveying it, you'd know when to fire off 2 or 3 for those really large planets. Probably wouldn't be as handy for the A-class stars and larger, just because of the huge orbital distances. But for M- and K-class systems (which you have in spades with a Real Stars start), it'd be handy. Parallel processing of multiple systems at the same time, over a few months.

If there's Precursors hanging around, you only lose a cheap buoy. And if you affix a tiny active sensor to each, you can hopefully pick up ships and populations just before the probe's destruction. The actual buoys are relatively tiny and cheap (and can be manufactured low-tech). It's the delivery system (missile *and* launcher) that are a pain. To be really useful, you'd need a distance of some 500-750 million km. More if you want to use them easily in G-class systems or larger.

If I read Steve's notes on the missile/engine rework correctly, this may actually become a LOT more feasible in the next version. Building a 500 million km range missile will be easy at low-tech...if you don't mind the "speed" being something like 500 km/s or so. You could build up a slew of sensor buoys on very slow, long-range boosters, and just seed these all over unexplored systems, and gets your automated survey results over the course of years or even decades, without any substantial risk to your ships.

[Flying Dice]

That's what it looks like; the 'drone' and 'missile' distinction is being replaced by engine efficieny/power tradeoffs akin to ship engines, so you could have a 2-stage with a very efficient/low power drive and not a whole lot of fuel, which would cut down on size, even at fairly low tech.

[Sheb]

Fuel is already a negligible part of a missile's weigh anyway.

[Flying Dice]

Not if you're trying to make LRMs at low tech levels.

Assuming a WH4/15,000kmps/150m km size 6 missile (with no armor, sensors, etc.) at WHx6/Enginex4/Agix80/FuelEff0.5 tech (in other words, all equivalent levels of mid-range tech; the next level in each one is the 30,000RP cost tech), you're looking at 2.5MSP/6MSP just for the fuel capacity.


If we're talking about a very short ranged missile (the sort of thing you'd see on a FAC or frigate), at the same tech:

WH4/20,000kmps/40m km size 6, with no extra bits, you're still looking at 0.6667MSP going to fuel, which is the same as for the warhead.

So hardly negligible even for fairly short ranged missiles, and much more so for ones with a decent engagement range and speed.

[Sheb]

Weird, I remember alwais putting a meagre 0.1 or 0.2 MSP of fuel. I need to play this again.

[andrea]

maybe you were using tiny anti missile missiles?

[Tibbz2]

Wow this game is certainly a challenge to even get going. I will not give up.

[darkrider2]

The difference between this and dwarf fortress is that when you are initially climbing the learning curve cliff, your messups aren't nearly as hilarious as the dwarves.

[Flying Dice]

You kidding? Realizing that you've sent an entire fleet with tens of thousands of crew to their death because you forgot to add armor to your ships is absolutely hilarious.

[Dutchling]

I'm tempted to take another shot at this, as I've never actually destroyed an enemy vessel in this game and it is about time.
I think ASoIaF will be my theme, with each house a type of (combat) ship...

[RedKing]

You kidding? Realizing that you've sent an entire fleet with tens of thousands of crew to their death because you forgot to add armor to your ships is absolutely hilarious.

Or building a massive dreadnought that has everything but the kitchen sink. And, as you discover AFTER its five-year construction...fuel tanks. >_<